Coronavirus

Netsua 3:16

AND THAT’S THE BOTTOM LINE
There you go, supporting the system of control out of one side of your mouth, while trashing it the other. You are a living contradiction. It's not the economic system that is exploitive, it's the people in power, yet, you believe everything they tell you while saying we need to give power back to the people. You don't even know if they are the ones who are making you believe socialism is a good goal.

BTW, the matrix would have been better if they were using people's brains for processing power rather than their body heat for energy. It would have made more practical sense, and would have provided a better allegory for the system of control. The matrix really is an artifact of collectivist thinking, and controlling belief is how it really works. That's why they couldn't not overcome the matrix collectively, but needed the "One", the individual, to break through the illusory barriers, to show people that by embracing individuality, the matrix loses all control. Being made to believe the Matrix was about the evil of capitalism is part of the control scheme.
Youre not going to “STOP” whatever it is you think is happening, by NOT getting a vax
This is why I continuously ask you what you specifically believe?
What’s the end game?
Do you believe that the gummyment is going to go door to door and force the vax?
What would you do about it?
I get that you see yourself as a “rebel” against the machine, ironically we have that in common for the most part; just not when it comes to getting a shot to prevent a major virus from crippling the country’s infrastructure.
And, you know, save lives too
 

rickyb

Well-Known Member
There you go, supporting the system of control out of one side of your mouth, while trashing it the other. You are a living contradiction. It's not the economic system that is exploitive, it's the people in power, yet, you believe everything they tell you while saying we need to give power back to the people. You don't even know if they are the ones who are making you believe socialism is a good goal.

BTW, the matrix would have been better if they were using people's brains for processing power rather than their body heat for energy. It would have made more practical sense, and would have provided a better allegory for the system of control. The matrix really is an artifact of collectivist thinking, and controlling belief is how it really works. That's why they couldn't not overcome the matrix collectively, but needed the "One", the individual, to break through the illusory barriers, to show people that by embracing individuality, the matrix loses all control. Being made to believe the Matrix was about the evil of capitalism is part of the control scheme.
actually it was a combination of them being saved by the one, and them saving themselves as the battle of zion illustrates. if you watch the movie id guess the directors intentionally filmed it so it appears as if they were saved by the one, but thats the point they want you to think and get past superficial appearances so you can discover the truth.

well karl marx said those who control the means of production control the mental production so that makes sense.

maybe this answers why they used body heat for energy. last 2 rows are notable:
1627748122799.png


capitalism is an exploitive system because as soon as you have employers / employees, or slaves and masters or serfs and lords you have workers producing more than they recieve in return and the surplus going to someone else. the problem is power too, but that doesnt mean capitalism is not. unless you have a 1 person business that could be considered capitalist and not exploitatitve
 

zubenelgenubi

I'm a star
Youre not going to “STOP” whatever it is you think is happening, by NOT getting a vax
This is why I continuously ask you what you specifically believe.
Do you believe that the gummyment is going to go door to door and force the vax?
What would you do about it?
I get that you see yourself as a “rebel” against the machine, ironically we have that in common for the most part; just not when it comes to getting a shot to prevent a major disease from crippling the country’s infrastructure.
And, you know, save lives too

I don't know how to make it more clear. When I share all the information I rely on to help me make decisions, you get terrified by how much I write. I'll try to brass tacks it. There is not enough data to make it clear that getting the shot will do any of the things you believe it will, or that it is safe. You can disagree, that's fine. You get the shot, I don't, everyone's happy.

It is exceedingly clear that the virus didn't cause any major disruptions, the completely insane response by the government did that. These measures have never been used before, for good reason.

I don't believe they are going door to door to force the vax. I do know they said they were going to send vaxxvangelists door to door to try to convince people. That idea is laughable, though, and I've already said what I would do if they came to my door. Let them make their spiel, offer them refreshments, and send them on their way.

Where the "forcing" comes in is in making businesses believe they legally have power to require them, which may or may not be true, and can vary state to state, but the EEOC and DOJ have made their position clear. Then there is a misinformation campaign making businesses believe they could face liability for not requiring the vaccine. But no court has ever upheld this notion. The only way you could be held liable for spreading a virus is if you do it on purpose, and it actually causes real harm to someone. And proving that you did it can be next to impossible.

The only sensible things employers should be expected is to offer sick pay that will allow people to properly quarantine, when they actually have symptoms. Beyond that, it is insane to believe businesses have any more right to invade our privacy or infringe our rights. The government can't do these things, but if private business can, then the government uses them to do it by proxy. It's a bad idea, all around.

I've said plainly, I may consider getting the vaccine if we get the long term data that shows it actually, safely, does what they claim. That's looking less and less likely as time goes on. All of the risks that I read about over the last year, and were denied by the institutional folks, is proving to be true. I did my best to inform others, and many laughed it off, so I don't feel responsible for the bad decisions made by others in the least.

BTW, how many people did you kill before the vaccine was available? How many people have you killed by passing the flu? Me neither. Your saving lives and infrastructure thing seems like a bit of a stretch.

I realize I'm well past the "horrifying" stage of "meandering thought process" so I'll cut it there. But I could flesh out each of the above paragraphs with enough data to fill a book.
 

zubenelgenubi

I'm a star
actually it was a combination of them being saved by the one, and them saving themselves as the battle of zion illustrates. if you watch the movie id guess the directors intentionally filmed it so it appears as if they were saved by the one, but thats the point they want you to think and get past superficial appearances so you can discover the truth.

well karl marx said those who control the means of production control the mental production so that makes sense.

maybe this answers why they used body heat for energy. last 2 rows are notable:
View attachment 346492

capitalism is an exploitive system because as soon as you have employers / employees, or slaves and masters or serfs and lords you have workers producing more than they recieve in return and the surplus going to someone else. the problem is power too, but that doesnt mean capitalism is not. unless you have a 1 person business that could be considered capitalist and not exploitatitve

All economic systems are exploitive, if they weren't they wouldn't be economic systems. Some are better at getting resources where they are needed than others.

They rest needed the catalyst of the one, and they only overcame their illusory bonds through his efforts. They keep them off by following the example of the one, and being individuals, not controlled by the beliefs of others.
 

Netsua 3:16

AND THAT’S THE BOTTOM LINE
I don't know how to make it more clear. When I share all the information I rely on to help me make decisions, you get terrified by how much I write. I'll try to brass tacks it. There is not enough data to make it clear that getting the shot will do any of the things you believe it will, or that it is safe. You can disagree, that's fine. You get the shot, I don't, everyone's happy.

It is exceedingly clear that the virus didn't cause any major disruptions, the completely insane response by the government did that. These measures have never been used before, for good reason.

I don't believe they are going door to door to force the vax. I do know they said they were going to send vaxxvangelists door to door to try to convince people. That idea is laughable, though, and I've already said what I would do if they came to my door. Let them make their spiel, offer them refreshments, and send them on their way.

Where the "forcing" comes in is in making businesses believe they legally have power to require them, which may or may not be true, and can vary state to state, but the EEOC and DOJ have made their position clear. Then there is a misinformation campaign making businesses believe they could face liability for not requiring the vaccine. But no court has ever upheld this notion. The only way you could be held liable for spreading a virus is if you do it on purpose, and it actually causes real harm to someone. And proving that you did it can be next to impossible.

The only sensible things employers should be expected is to offer sick pay that will allow people to properly quarantine, when they actually have symptoms. Beyond that, it is insane to believe businesses have any more right to invade our privacy or infringe our rights. The government can't do these things, but if private business can, then the government uses them to do it by proxy. It's a bad idea, all around.

I've said plainly, I may consider getting the vaccine if we get the long term data that shows it actually, safely, does what they claim. That's looking less and less likely as time goes on. All of the risks that I read about over the last year, and were denied by the institutional folks, is proving to be true. I did my best to inform others, and many laughed it off, so I don't feel responsible for the bad decisions made by others in the least.

BTW, how many people did you kill before the vaccine was available? How many people have you killed by passing the flu? Me neither. Your saving lives and infrastructure thing seems like a bit of a stretch.

I realize I'm well past the "horrifying" stage of "meandering thought process" so I'll cut it there. But I could flesh out each of the above paragraphs with enough data to fill a book.
Right. These are all great facts, you have repeated them over and over again.
But they echo your ultimate “distrust” of what is going on.
And that is why I ask, if you don’t believe what we’re being told, what DO you believe?
Do you believe it was perpetrated as a weapon to kill off the population?
Do you believe that it’s the UN or the Illuminati plotting for “The Great Reset?”
Big picture: what do you believe?
If you didn’t have such a vehement, outward distrust for American institutions (I don’t blame you), you would just get the vaccine like everybody else, no?
So why do you believe “they” (whoever that means to you) are pushing this on us?
You are defending yourself from SOMETHING, I just don’t know what it is.
 

rickyb

Well-Known Member
All economic systems are exploitive, if they weren't they wouldn't be economic systems. Some are better at getting resources where they are needed than others.

They rest needed the catalyst of the one, and they only overcame their illusory bonds through his efforts. They keep them off by following the example of the one, and being individuals, not controlled by the beliefs of others.
not all economic systems are exploitative. when workers collectively decide what to do with their profits, its not exploitative. 1 person business is not exploitative because theres only one person. im not talking about environmental exploitation.

there were people freed before neo himself was freed. so they didnt solely depend on him. in the end you have cooperation between the machines and neo, even though neos journey was largely more alone as he went on.

when they escaped the matrix there was other systems of belief to contend with like morpheus's dogmatism for example.
 

zubenelgenubi

I'm a star
Right. These are all great facts, you have repeated them over and over again.
But they echo your ultimate “distrust” of what is going one.
And that is why I ask, if you don’t believe what we’re being told, what DO you believe?
Do you believe it was perpetrated as a weapon to kill off the population?
Do you believe that it’s the UN or the Illuminati plotting for “The Great Reset?”
Big picture: what do you believe?
If you didn’t have such a vehement, outward distrust for American institutions (I don’t blame you), you would just get the vaccine like everybody else, no?
So why do you believe “they” (whoever that means to you) are pushing this on us?
You are defending yourself from SOMETHING, I just don’t know what it is.

I don't need to know the motives to be able to recognize the inconsistencies. There's all sorts of things that could be driving what is happening, and it is highly likely to be a convergence of many factors, some competing, some cooperative.

I'm leaning towards the main driver is that this is all a way to print more fiat currency, launder it through pharmaceutical companies into the pockets of the major stakeholders in said companies, some of which ends up enriching the very politicians who made it happen. We funded the research, politicians allowed for rushing these to market (and I do not hold Trump innocent in this part at all, in case that matters), and rushing medical products to market with promises of liability free profit is a recipe for disaster. That doesn't mean it will be disastrous, but the data's not looking good. Beyond that, there are probably thousands of other factors that come into play, and one could spend the rest of their lives trying to chase everything down to get a full understanding of what really happened.

Ultinately, I'm protecting myself from the human nature of others, there are plenty of examples of atrocities in history that were predicated on making a better world. What I'd like to know is why people continue to believe other people who have proven themselves to be liars.
 

rickyb

Well-Known Member
I don't need to know the motives to be able to recognize the inconsistencies. There's all sorts of things that could be driving what is happening, and it is highly likely to be a convergence of many factors, some competing, some cooperative.

I'm leaning towards the main driver is that this is all a way to print more fiat currency, launder it through pharmaceutical companies into the pockets of the major stakeholders in said companies, some of which ends up enriching the very politicians who made it happen. We funded the research, politicians allowed for rushing these to market (and I do not hold Trump innocent in this part at all, in case that matters), and rushing medical products to market with promises of liability free profit is a recipe for disaster. That doesn't mean it will be disastrous, but the data's not looking good. Beyond that, there are probably thousands of other factors that come into play, and one could spend the rest of their lives trying to chase everything down to get a full understanding of what really happened.

Ultinately, I'm protecting myself from the human nature of others, there are plenty of examples of atrocities in history that were predicated on making a better world. What I'd like to know is why people continue to believe other people who have proven themselves to be liars.
because people let people with money think for them and they dont know it?

corona was an excellent excuse for bailouts
 

zubenelgenubi

I'm a star
not all economic systems are exploitative. when workers collectively decide what to do with their profits, its not exploitative. 1 person business is not exploitative because theres only one person. im not talking about environmental exploitation.

there were people freed before neo himself was freed. so they didnt solely depend on him. in the end you have cooperation between the machines and neo, even though neos journey was largely more alone as he went on.

when they escaped the matrix there was other systems of belief to contend with like morpheus's dogmatism for example.

Nah, collectives are just workers exploiting each other. It would only work as long as everyone trusts each other and everyone puts in a fair effort. But that's not how people work. Everyone believes they work harder and deserve more, so the system breaks down. 1 person businesses still have customers, they are either exploiting each other, or one is exploiting the other. It can work as long as both sides are happy, which is the same as the relationship between business and labor.

Still, nothing would have ever changed without Neo. Can't get around that.
 

rickyb

Well-Known Member
Nah, collectives are just workers exploiting each other. It would only work as long as everyone trusts each other and everyone puts in a fair effort. But that's not how people work. Everyone believes they work harder and deserve more, so the system breaks down. 1 person businesses still have customers, they are either exploiting each other, or one is exploiting the other. It can work as long as both sides are happy, which is the same as the relationship between business and labor.

Still, nothing would have ever changed without Neo. Can't get around that.
at what point would nothing have ever changed without neo? because like i said in revolutions it was a combination of both.

worker coops are not exploitative of themselves. but ur right the drive to justice never ends. 1 person businesses are not exploitative because you are profitting off yourself. were not talking about sales to customers, all of these systems have trade.
 

zubenelgenubi

I'm a star
at what point would nothing have ever changed without neo? because like i said in revolutions it was a combination of both.

worker coops are not exploitative of themselves. but ur right the drive to justice never ends. 1 person businesses are not exploitative because you are profitting off yourself. were not talking about sales to customers, all of these systems have trade.


Wait, isn't marketing part of the exploitation? Aren't consumers exploited as well as workers?
 

Off the leash

Well-Known Member
Nah, collectives are just workers exploiting each other. It would only work as long as everyone trusts each other and everyone puts in a fair effort. But that's not how people work. Everyone believes they work harder and deserve more, so the system breaks down. 1 person businesses still have customers, they are either exploiting each other, or one is exploiting the other. It can work as long as both sides are happy, which is the same as the relationship between business and labor.

Still, nothing would have ever changed without Neo. Can't get around that.
Collectives never work, ask the Ukrainians. Millions starved under Stalin due to forced collectivization
 

Netsua 3:16

AND THAT’S THE BOTTOM LINE
I don't need to know the motives to be able to recognize the inconsistencies. There's all sorts of things that could be driving what is happening, and it is highly likely to be a convergence of many factors, some competing, some cooperative.

I'm leaning towards the main driver is that this is all a way to print more fiat currency, launder it through pharmaceutical companies into the pockets of the major stakeholders in said companies, some of which ends up enriching the very politicians who made it happen. We funded the research, politicians allowed for rushing these to market (and I do not hold Trump innocent in this part at all, in case that matters), and rushing medical products to market with promises of liability free profit is a recipe for disaster. That doesn't mean it will be disastrous, but the data's not looking good. Beyond that, there are probably thousands of other factors that come into play, and one could spend the rest of their lives trying to chase everything down to get a full understanding of what really happened.

Ultinately, I'm protecting myself from the human nature of others, there are plenty of examples of atrocities in history that were predicated on making a better world. What I'd like to know is why people continue to believe other people who have proven themselves to be liars.
All I will say to this is;
-I appreciate the fact that you are unwilling to make a broad claim that you can’t back up with evidence
-Everyday, we work to uphold the very institutions we hate. It is the basis of our civilization, that we do so.
And, these “institutions” DEPEND on our “contribution.” Our monetary value. Our labor. Our presence
 
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rickyb

Well-Known Member
Based on what though? Nader should be having fits over how these were rushed to market.
public citizen did......in october 2020. were a little past that now.

when you search their website they want vaccines for the world now, stop the blockades, otherwise it will be 2024 by the time the whole world is vaccinated.
 
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