Exercise Your Rights

[Local63Ontario]

I'm sure you all have witnessed that Supervisors are getting younger and younger. Some have not worked their way up through the Company. UPS PT supervisors are kids that are lacking communication and people skills. At my hub, this is one of the biggest problems that we see. Supervisors not knowing how to assign work or give direction and pissing off members. Most Companies put their management through leadership development training. As far as I know, UPS is not. We just had 4 Supervisors quit in a 2 week span

 

[PT Car Washer]

I'm sure you all have witnessed that Supervisors are getting younger and younger. Some have not worked their way up through the Company. UPS PT supervisors are kids that are lacking communication and people skills. At my hub, this is one of the biggest problems that we see. Supervisors not knowing how to assign work or give direction and pissing off members. Most Companies put their management through leadership development training. As far as I know, UPS is not. We just had 4 Supervisors quit in a 2 week span

Were they FT or PT sups. Our PT sup turnover is almost as high as PT hourly. They don't even try and hide doing hourly work. Of course the Union gives the company a pass as they have exhausted all means

 

[Local63Ontario]

Were they FT or PT sups. Our PT sup turnover is almost as high as PT hourly. They don't even try and hide doing hourly work. Of course the Union gives the company a pass as they have exhausted all means

PT Supes, but we do have one FT Supe that is a piece of garbage. According to others that have been there awhile, he has been moved around from department to department because he doesn't work well with others

 

[BadIdeaGuy]

No one is saying to cease all communications like accepting work. What is mentioned is a member of management having an exploratory discussion that may lead or be perceived to led to a member being investigated, disciplinary action or as a witness to another members investigation.

No, that's not what you mentioned.

You were answering Zub.

Weingarten only applies if you believe the conversation could lead to discipline. If you refuse to speak to management under normal circumstances you can face discipline.

Your reply:

Negative Ghostrider. We are in America. No one can be forced to say .

If less informed members see your post and run with the idea that it *looks* like you are suggesting, they'll end up getting in trouble.
If you are intending what you posted in your follow up to me, I think you need to be a lot more careful about your approach.

 

[Local63Ontario]

That's why posting on a forum and delivering the message in person is completely different.

 

[542thruNthru]

No, that's not what you mentioned.

You were answering Zub.

Your reply:


If less informed members see your post and run with the idea that it *looks* like you are suggesting, they'll end up getting in trouble.
If you are intending what you posted in your follow up to me, I think you need to be a lot more careful about your approach.

Thank you. That's exactly what I'm saying. Now it's "let's talk about attendance".

Telling a member you don't have to talk to management is not the same as saying "if involved in a investigatory meeting or any discussion that could result in discipline. Invoke your weingarten rights!"

 

[542thruNthru]

If I had to choose between an incompetent management simp and an incompetent defiant steward, I'd take the defiant one any day of the week. At this point, we could all use a bit more defiance in our attitudes.

Sure but again we're not talking about a defiance steward. We're talking about a defiant member with bad information.

 

[Local63Ontario]

No, that's not what you mentioned.

You were answering Zub.

Your reply:


If less informed members see your post and run with the idea that it *looks* like you are suggesting, they'll end up getting in trouble.
If you are intending what you posted in your follow up to me, I think you need to be a lot more careful about your approach

But let's back up a bit. I've never heard of anyone being disciplined with insubordination for refusing to speak to management. If so, please enlighten me. Because we also have Members that absolutely won't engage in conversation with Supervisors and the Supe will just walk away.

 

[BadIdeaGuy]

But let's back up a bit. I've never heard of anyone being disciplined with insubordination for refusing to speak to management. If so, please enlighten me. Because we also have Members that absolutely won't engage in conversation with Supervisors and the Supe will just walk away.

There's no way you were a BA.
Seriously, dude?

It's article 12 in local 710's contract, I'm sure National has it somewhere.

...The Employer will treat employees with dignity and respect at all times, which all include but not be limited to, giving due consideration to the age and physical condition of the employee. Employees will also treat each other as well as the Employer with dignity and respect.

 

[Local63Ontario]

There's no way you were a BA.
Seriously, dude?

It's article 12 in local 710's contract, I'm sure National has it somewhere.

Hahahahaha dignity and respect....oooookkkkkk

 

[Local63Ontario]

That's why every UPS Member throughout the Country is a happy employee. It's that dignity and respect that's given on a daily basis. Come on

 

[542thruNthru]

There's no way you were a BA.
Seriously, dude?

It's article 12 in local 710's contract, I'm sure National has it somewhere.

He definitely was never a BA for UPS. It's in Article 37 of the NMA for us.

I've seen plenty of members disciplined for insubordination. A member will say I don't have to talk to you without a steward. Center manager says yes you do and I don't have to get you a steward.

Members starts to pop off and then the center manager says ok now I need to get you a steward because you're being disciplined for insubordination.

 

[542thruNthru]

That's why every UPS Member throughout the Country is a happy employee. It's that dignity and respect that's given on a daily basis. Come on

Yes we all know what the double standard is. Welcome to UPS.

 

[Local63Ontario]

He definitely was never a BA for UPS. It's in Article 37 of the NMA for us.

I've seen plenty of members disciplined for insubordination. A member will say I don't have to talk to you without a steward. Center manager says yes you do and I don't have to get you a steward.

Members starts to pop off and then the center manager says ok now I need to get you a steward because you're being disciplined for insubordination.

Now imagine if the Member just listens quietly and not pops off? There's a difference between "I'm not answering till you get me a steward" to "I'm not comfortable without a steward or someone as a witness"

 

[Local63Ontario]

He definitely was never a BA for UPS. It's in Article 37 of the NMA for us.

I've seen plenty of members disciplined for insubordination. A member will say I don't have to talk to you without a steward. Center manager says yes you do and I don't have to get you a steward.

Members starts to pop off and then the center manager says ok now I need to get you a steward because you're being disciplined for insubordination.

Isn't insubordination, grounds for termination? Did all those members disciplined for insubordination lose their jobs? Was the discipline grieved? Was it removed?

 

[542thruNthru]

Now imagine if the Member just listens quietly and not pops off? There's a difference between "I'm not answering till you get me a steward" to "I'm not comfortable without a steward or someone as a witness"

You might want to talk to your locals labor attorney about your weingarten rights and when you can invoke them and when management has to comply.

 

[542thruNthru]

Isn't insubordination, grounds for termination?

Yes it can be.

Did all those members disciplined for insubordination lose their jobs?

No some received warning letters and wrote rebuttals. Those who did lose their jobs got their jobs back at either the local level hearing or panel.

Was the discipline grieved? Was it removed?

Warning letters are automatically protested in our supplemental. That's another thing you might want to talk to your locals labor attorney about. No the discipline was not removed.

 

[Local63Ontario]

You might want to talk to your locals labor attorney about your weingarten rights and when you can invoke them and when management has to comply.

Thanks for the advice. I'm well versed in Weingarten Rights and you would be amazed how much leeway is available to invoke them.

 

[542thruNthru]

Thanks for the advice. I'm well versed in Weingarten Rights and you would be amazed how much leeway is available to invoke them.

Leeway goes both ways.

 

[Fido]

I just don’t talk to my management at all
And my day goes fine
They asked me one time why I’m so hard to communicate with
Told them because I don’t want to be communicated with I’m here to work not be your friend
They left me alone