Gov healthcare

browndevil

Well-Known Member
he was an ass. But our politicians need to hear it. They keep trying to alibi these public demonstrations as being part of some right wing conspiracies.

If they see enough pissed off voters then they may actually start listening. If they see polite submissive voters then they may think they can push their own agenda through without too much resistance.

The worst thing we who are concerned about political meddling with our health care can do is to politely voice our objections.

This issue is headed for one of two possible outcomes. Forced through or full retreat.
Thanks for reading my post Tie. I thought I would be buried in the 325 spot. How i read this healthcare plan is that it is an "option" not mandatory. Just like medicare where you also have a supplement.

I just lost a customer to cancer earlier this month to cancer. She was in that "donut" where there was a lapse of coverage. And my understanding is this plan would have covered that lapse. It's the human in me that wants everyone to have affordable healthcare.

Another point was that dissenter in the YouTube video was a vet meaning he is using VA healthcare. Just made me go Huh?
 

tieguy

Banned
Thanks for reading my post Tie. I thought I would be buried in the 325 spot. How i read this healthcare plan is that it is an "option" not mandatory. Just like medicare where you also have a supplement.

I just lost a customer to cancer earlier this month to cancer. She was in that "donut" where there was a lapse of coverage. And my understanding is this plan would have covered that lapse. It's the human in me that wants everyone to have affordable healthcare.

Another point was that dissenter in the YouTube video was a vet meaning he is using VA healthcare. Just made me go Huh?

And you may be right . The problem is people do not trust the government to do the right thing. I think thats why you're seeing the hysteria out there.
 

av8torntn

Well-Known Member
I noticed he kissed a woman with a baby. I am assuming that is his wife and kid. I wonder if that birth was delivered by way of the VA.

Why? What makes you think his wife is a veteran? What makes you think all veterans use the VA health care system? What makes you think the VA system is superior than the private insurance system?


The guy claims he was one of 38 people chosen at random out of 3000 to ask a question. Looks like he did a great job to me. He treated his rep like they have been treating us. The point he made about the government "letting" us keep our health insurance was priceless. Since when is it the responsibility of the government to tell the people what they will allow us to do? It is supposed to be the other way around.
 

over9five

Moderator
Staff member
I think it's great our elected "leaders" are being shouted down in town halls across the nation. THEY WORK FOR US!

In the past, they've pretended to listen, and then done whatever they were going to do before the town hall. Now they know their political futures are on the line. A lot of them are distancing themselves from the Messiah. The only thing they like more than Obama is being re-elected.
 

Catatonic

Nine Lives
Watched John McCain's townhall in Sun City and he wasn't shouted down and booed ! :happy2:

It's hard to do so when getting up with your walker and everyone asking, "Whatyed he say?"

But seriously, you don't live in Sun City unless you saved your money and made rational responsible financial decisions. The "health care" bailout is to take care of those people who are victims of society and their own decisions.
 

browndevil

Well-Known Member
Why? What makes you think his wife is a veteran? What makes you think all veterans use the VA health care system? What makes you think the VA system is superior than the private insurance system?


The guy claims he was one of 38 people chosen at random out of 3000 to ask a question. Looks like he did a great job to me. He treated his rep like they have been treating us. The point he made about the government "letting" us keep our health insurance was priceless. Since when is it the responsibility of the government to tell the people what they will allow us to do? It is supposed to be the other way around.
Don't know much about the VA. My friend's father has been in the VA hospital in Palo Alto California since January 10 2009. That is nearly 8 months now. All I can tell you av8 is my teamster negotiated healthcare is superior. And I am grateful and thankful everday that I have it. I just want affordable healthcare available to all. That is what my conscience tells me.
 

Jones

fILE A GRIEVE!
Staff member
Don't know much about the VA. My friend's father has been in the VA hospital in Palo Alto California since January 10 2009. That is nearly 8 months now. All I can tell you av8 is my teamster negotiated healthcare is superior. And I am grateful and thankful everday that I have it. I just want affordable healthcare available to all. That is what my conscience tells me.
Ultimately it comes down to whether we want healthcare treated as a right or a privilege. If it's a privilege, then I suppose we can leave things pretty much the way they are. People who can afford healthcare will have it, and people who can't afford it will just have to make do the best they can. If it's a right, then obviously we have to make some changes.
 

Catatonic

Nine Lives
...All I can tell you av8 is my teamster negotiated healthcare is superior. And I am grateful and thankful everday that I have it. I just want affordable healthcare available to all. That is what my conscience tells me.

How about all the children in Africa and Asia?
 

browndevil

Well-Known Member
How about all the children in Africa and Asia?
Hoax i get your point. I read a Newsweek article a fews years back on how this 3 dollar device, made by a British company will clean drinking water out of a stream for a entire village. In turn it will help to not spread diptheria? I can't remember off hand and at 5:30am for that matter LOL.
But I think you get my point. Let's start with the basics and work forward.
Sidebar, I went to my doctor last week. Thought I had a staff infection. So I asked her about Obama's healthcare plan and her thoughts. She said our current system could not get any worse. It seems it wants to keep people sick and doesn't stress preventive medicine. Which I posted in an earlier thread. Eating right, exercise, quit smoking, limit alcohol etc.:happy2:
 

wkmac

Well-Known Member
Ultimately it comes down to whether we want healthcare treated as a right or a privilege. If it's a privilege, then I suppose we can leave things pretty much the way they are. People who can afford healthcare will have it, and people who can't afford it will just have to make do the best they can. If it's a right, then obviously we have to make some changes.

That is where the whole thing boils down too. Right or Priviledge or what this really is about are negative rights verses positive rights, Isiah Berlin's Two Concepts of Liberty. Free Speech is a negative liberty as it requires nothing from anyone in order for you to exercise that right. All one need do is open their mouth, move their lips and the right expresses itself. No burden or demand is exerted or required of anyone else for you to exercise that right.

But we are also a mixed bag society in that we do have pillars of positive rights and one such case is the right to an attorney and if one can not be afforded, one will be provided. Now you're not going to get Perry Mason unless Mr. Mason is willing to do Pro Bono work but the point is, this is a positive right or you could call it a priviledge. As an aside, I've love to discuss sometime the reason for this "priviledge" in the first place but this thread is not the time nor place obviously.

Techgrrl was right when she said the present system is unsustainable but the present system was built and designed by the very same special interests that are now in the process of formulating the new system being debated. Should we therefore have reason to expect a better outcome or should we expect those self serving interests to come out the other side even in a better position than they are now?

And let us not forget that when someone is granted a priviledge verses a negative right, there are consequences and potential victims that are not seen or realized but yet in making such a system, that priviledge becomes a means of various corp. special interests to profit by maintaining a controlled and narrow marketplace that prohibits both product offering and marketplace entry by upstarts seeking to meet market demands.

To ignore this is to learn the hard way in time the perils of authorterianism as this will come into play to protect those interests that have risen to leadership status. Even the present plan is more about weeding out smaller competitors and strenghtening market position of the big players than it is about providing coverage and it will use State powers to protect it's claim window as they have always done. Don't fear President Change's death panel, fear the one's coming from the State created private cartel!

This deal is no different than the secret meeting to create the Federal Reserve, Hillary's secret healthcare meeting, Cheney's secret energy meeting, last year's secret meetings to bail out Wall Street and now President Transparency joins the fray with his own scheme. Do we see a trend here when it comes to major shifts in our society?

It's all a big CON!

Liberty is the solution of all social and economic questions.
Joseph Labadie
 

av8torntn

Well-Known Member
Don't know much about the VA. My friend's father has been in the VA hospital in Palo Alto California since January 10 2009. That is nearly 8 months now. All I can tell you av8 is my teamster negotiated healthcare is superior. And I am grateful and thankful everday that I have it. I just want affordable healthcare available to all. That is what my conscience tells me.


You want cheap health care. I want quality health care. We could have both if we applied the principals of the free market. Just look at two of the most heavily government subsidized markets(education and health care). The costs of both are rising much higher than the rate of inflation. This in itself should make you suspicious that the government can reduce the costs of health care.


I can agree that the more expensive option of teamster negotiated health care is superior to the government VA hospital. I have both.
 

av8torntn

Well-Known Member
With over a million views on youtube most of you have probably already seen this.


[video=youtube;SD_YOlUBoIk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SD_YOlUBoIk[/video]
 

moreluck

golden ticket member
Yesterday, ex-Klansman and serial pork-barrel looter, Robert Byrd, suggested that the "public option" be renamed "Kennedycare." In response, I suggest we all start calling it "Kopechnecare" since it would be far more appropriate.

Kopechnecare connotes depraved indifference to human life as
well as early death; far more appropriate, don't you think?

Furthermore,
more than 40 years after her murder-through-indifference, it might bring a
measure of justice to Mary Jo.
 

moreluck

golden ticket member
I loved the Mallard Fillmore political cartoon in the paper today.... It shows Obama saying, " I was taken out of context during the campaign, what I said was....

....I HOPE that if you disagree with my healthcare plan...

...You CHANGE your mind before we have to put you on the White House enemies list.
 

av8torntn

Well-Known Member
"With respect to the two words 'general welfare,' I have always regarded them as qualified by the detail of powers connected with them. To take them in a literal and unlimited sense would be a metamorphosis of the Constitution into a character which there is a host of proofs was not contemplated by its creators."

James Madison


Thomas Jefferson explained in a letter to Albert Gallatin, “Congress has not unlimited powers to provide for the general welfare, but only those specifically enumerated.”
 
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