Gov healthcare
- Thread starter DS
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klein
Für Meno :)
You sure like to write wkmac !
Do you actually know, we have much more medical research here then in the USA. And most likely every country in Europe,has more then USA, too.
Tomorrow, the 2 top pics for the medical nobel prize are Canadians.
That's because our government (and others) will supply research funds.
Who does that in the states ? Not your insurance company, heck they won't even build a hospital if 1 is needed.
Doctors, holy crap no, they won't give away hard earned money.
And your government already spends over $7000 per person, per year. They got nothing left to hand out.
It's odd, it's okay for the government to subsizide healthcare so much, but , in the other hand... being told to stay out of it !
If thats what the american people really want, then they should foot that $7000+ anual bill, for each and every single person living there.
Someone told me once, I can't compare apple with oranges, because we only have 30 Mill people here.
What about China, or India (worlds largest democracy) - they got national healthcare !
But, I do know what your afraid of wkmac... too much government and a monopoly.
It still beats paying a middle man (insurance company).
And , I rather have a non per profit system in place, then everyone taking a piece of the pie.
We recently had a delegation going over to Europe and even Japan, to find out how thier system works, and how we could save (even just 5%) would make a huge difference. (since Canada, with $3000 per capita, is second highest spender in Healtcare).
Who does that for you ? Again, insurance companies won't (they make profit as is), Doctors don't care. And government, has no issue in it.
I read your post about California going into BK, you might be right there.
They are one of Alberta's largest trading partners. We give them electricity, gas, and oil, even medication, and medical research ties.
One of these days, they might not be able to pay our bill.
But, to close this now. Some things, big brother is just a bit better in, then having a free market profit scam.
And I do not shop at Chinamart (walmart). That would be a good poll, actually - you should start one !
I hate everything about that store... you never hear good news from them.
They tried to unionize one of them in Quebec.. Guess what Walmart did ?
They closed doors, tore it down !
Here is a good article from the BBC.
The end of the Western economic era?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8269003.stm
audio:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/video_and_audio/8271823.stm
Do you actually know, we have much more medical research here then in the USA. And most likely every country in Europe,has more then USA, too.
Tomorrow, the 2 top pics for the medical nobel prize are Canadians.
That's because our government (and others) will supply research funds.
Who does that in the states ? Not your insurance company, heck they won't even build a hospital if 1 is needed.
Doctors, holy crap no, they won't give away hard earned money.
And your government already spends over $7000 per person, per year. They got nothing left to hand out.
It's odd, it's okay for the government to subsizide healthcare so much, but , in the other hand... being told to stay out of it !
If thats what the american people really want, then they should foot that $7000+ anual bill, for each and every single person living there.
Someone told me once, I can't compare apple with oranges, because we only have 30 Mill people here.
What about China, or India (worlds largest democracy) - they got national healthcare !
But, I do know what your afraid of wkmac... too much government and a monopoly.
It still beats paying a middle man (insurance company).
And , I rather have a non per profit system in place, then everyone taking a piece of the pie.
We recently had a delegation going over to Europe and even Japan, to find out how thier system works, and how we could save (even just 5%) would make a huge difference. (since Canada, with $3000 per capita, is second highest spender in Healtcare).
Who does that for you ? Again, insurance companies won't (they make profit as is), Doctors don't care. And government, has no issue in it.
I read your post about California going into BK, you might be right there.
They are one of Alberta's largest trading partners. We give them electricity, gas, and oil, even medication, and medical research ties.
One of these days, they might not be able to pay our bill.
But, to close this now. Some things, big brother is just a bit better in, then having a free market profit scam.
And I do not shop at Chinamart (walmart). That would be a good poll, actually - you should start one !
I hate everything about that store... you never hear good news from them.
They tried to unionize one of them in Quebec.. Guess what Walmart did ?
They closed doors, tore it down !
Here is a good article from the BBC.
The end of the Western economic era?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8269003.stm
audio:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/video_and_audio/8271823.stm
klein
Für Meno :)
This is what CNN thinks of it :
(just trying to defend against all the nasty rumours down south).
http://www.emailthis.clickability.com/et/emailThis?clickMap=viewThis&etMailToID=1586084077
(just trying to defend against all the nasty rumours down south).
http://www.emailthis.clickability.com/et/emailThis?clickMap=viewThis&etMailToID=1586084077
brett636
Well-Known Member
All the medical research in the world does you no good when your government refuses to pay for it. Like in the UK where the national health system refused to pay for drugs that would help extend the lives of women with breast cancer because the drugs were too expensive.
A couple of years ago a good friend of mine cut his finger at my house. So bad we took him to the local ER to get fixed up. On a nice fall Saturday afternoon the ER was empty. They took my friend right in and in less than an hour he was stitched up and sent on his way. Can you say the same for any ER in Canada? I thought not...
klein
Für Meno :)
No Brett, they will just steady mop up the floor when you're bleeding like that.
Ofcourse not, the urgent always go first.
Just, like anywhere else in the world. We do have certain types of people that go to ER for any little things. Like high fever, or simply not feeling good.
Those are the ones, that can wait a bit longer, if real emergency cases come in.
Drugs are actually not part of the healthcare system (unless taken in Hospitals).
It's a real nice gesture if the government steps in and pays for them
(which you must then apply for or atleast try to get a subsidy).
If someone really wants full drug coverage, thats where we have the Bluecross and other Insurances.
But, in most cases, the government will suck it up, and pay anyways.
And, same as there, age 65 and older, thats when they are free.
Thats the part , that is like America, as UPS and most other companies, have that insurance in place for workers.
(UPS pays $71.00 a month for thier workers here, which includes dental, too).
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av8torntn
Well-Known Member
"The survey surmises that long wait times in Boston could be the result in part of the 2006 health reform initiative that requires nearly every Massachusetts resident to get health insurance."
Probably what most people would think without having to do a study.
True, but you're cherry picking the article. The study looked at wait times through out the US, not just Boston.
klein
Für Meno :)
Go to Bretts area ER. It's open 24 hrs a day, and have no one going to it, not even on Saturdays.
Must be part of the $7000+ the government spends per capita.
Here, such an ER would be considered "unproductive" and shut down.
Makes me wanna open up a Mac D's at the northpole.
Never a line up.
Won't be maken any money, and hopefully get the government to pay for my expenses.
If that ER was truely based on a free market. It would shut down.
How can you make profits, being empty ?
The invisible hand of the free market
av8torntn
Well-Known Member
Actually not "cherry picking" anything. The article clearly points out that the longest wait times are in cities that the government spends more money in.
It is funny I haven't heard that phrase in some time. I was just thinking it must've fallen out of favor with the liberals.
av8torntn
Well-Known Member
Just watched Frist on Fox news. He made no bones about it. He says he does not support the current "public option". He said he thought it would kill competition and innovation.
klein
Für Meno :)
What competition ?
Can you switch your insurance company ?
Didn't think so. The Employer is in control of that.
Innovation ?
Where do you think the newest drugs are developed ?
France (Viagra), Germany, UK, Canada, Japan and China, to name a few.
Because we need to work for less, and find better ways to do so.
You (USA) just keep throwing good money into bad.
1989
Well-Known Member
All the ER's I've seen are at hospitals. They are busy at times and dead (no pun intended) at times. We took our 2YO to the ER on Saturday morning at about 8:00 There was one person waiting and one person came in behind us and one came in in on ambulance. We were in and out in about 45 minutes.
The worst/busiest ER I've been to was Harborview in Seattle. Probably where they send the Canadians. Because It's the last hospital Americans in the region want to go to. You only go to Harborview if it's life or death not the place you choose.
Come on now, that's not what the article says at all. They attribute the increased wait times in all cities (not just Boston) to a shortage of doctors, which they further attribute to a decrease in government spending in the area of education. In Boston that problem happens to be compounded by the fact that more people are seeking medical care (because they now have insurance to pay for it). More patients + less doctors = increased wait times.
chev
Nightcrawler
Sheryl.....very funny.
moreluck
golden ticket member
Shamwow Obama is a showman.......the doctors gathered on the White House Lawn......a sea of white coats....what a photo-op.
The white coats were provided behind the scenes for staging purposes. Half the doctors didn't even know why they were invited to the white house. B-HO should work for Ringling Brothers.
The white coats were provided behind the scenes for staging purposes. Half the doctors didn't even know why they were invited to the white house. B-HO should work for Ringling Brothers.
klein
Für Meno :)
Benefits of national Healthcare:
1) Not being "job-locked".
Don't like it, leave, without losing bennies. Part-timers for example could be earning more money, bartending or waitressing, or even painting homes/houses.
If a corperation, like UPS, can't keep part-timers or friend/t, wages will increase.
(paid by the savings from not paying excessive healthinsurance costs).
And it creates more of a free-market for workers.
2) As in many other industrialized countries, such as Canada, Austria, France, Italy , over 50% are retired at 55 years of age or sooner.
Creates more job openings, and less unemployed.
Not to mention, a much better and longer, exciting life for early retirees.
3) 30 - 40% cheaper as your insurance model, even drugs. A less of a burden on GDP and deficit spending. Government can get out of debt sooner, and maintain a healthy budget.
4) Everyone is insured. Creates a healthy nation and society.
And overall satisfaction, that you are insured for life. It's a personal freedom, not to worry ever about it.
5) Creates more innovation working on a budget. As for Boston, I recommend them to adapt an Alberta new policy, that in most cases Pharmacists can refill your perscription without going back to a Doctors office.
6) Less paper work and forms. A government card, works like a credit card. Physicians receive payment within 3 days. No questions asked.
Everything is e-filed,and e-payments follow.
7) Less costs to the Employer = less manufacturing costs. Which will lead to more exports, since goods are cheaper to produce. Run a trade surplus ! And also creates more jobs. Makes "Made in USA" more competetive in this global market.
I could probably think of more, but not in the spur of the moment.
The downside. Yes, you might have longer wait lines, until more Doctors and clinics are in place. (which actually creates new jobs, too - from staff to medical equipment suppliers ).
1) Not being "job-locked".
Don't like it, leave, without losing bennies. Part-timers for example could be earning more money, bartending or waitressing, or even painting homes/houses.
If a corperation, like UPS, can't keep part-timers or friend/t, wages will increase.
(paid by the savings from not paying excessive healthinsurance costs).
And it creates more of a free-market for workers.
2) As in many other industrialized countries, such as Canada, Austria, France, Italy , over 50% are retired at 55 years of age or sooner.
Creates more job openings, and less unemployed.
Not to mention, a much better and longer, exciting life for early retirees.
3) 30 - 40% cheaper as your insurance model, even drugs. A less of a burden on GDP and deficit spending. Government can get out of debt sooner, and maintain a healthy budget.
4) Everyone is insured. Creates a healthy nation and society.
And overall satisfaction, that you are insured for life. It's a personal freedom, not to worry ever about it.
5) Creates more innovation working on a budget. As for Boston, I recommend them to adapt an Alberta new policy, that in most cases Pharmacists can refill your perscription without going back to a Doctors office.
6) Less paper work and forms. A government card, works like a credit card. Physicians receive payment within 3 days. No questions asked.
Everything is e-filed,and e-payments follow.
7) Less costs to the Employer = less manufacturing costs. Which will lead to more exports, since goods are cheaper to produce. Run a trade surplus ! And also creates more jobs. Makes "Made in USA" more competetive in this global market.
I could probably think of more, but not in the spur of the moment.
The downside. Yes, you might have longer wait lines, until more Doctors and clinics are in place. (which actually creates new jobs, too - from staff to medical equipment suppliers ).
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