guns

soberups

Pees in the brown Koolaid
No. BUG suggested that the weapons are basically the same so I am curious what difference it makes banning one makes to him. What do you think? If it doesn't make any difference one way, why does it make a difference the other? If an "assault rifle" isn't really an assault rifle and the ignorant are simply "scared" then if the weapons are essentially the same, what is it about the "assault rifle" that makes it sought after over the hunting rifle? Is it somehow sexier, gives the owner a different image of himself. Here we go. Delving again into mental health issues.

Bbsam---

Imagine if the government tried to "solve the alcoholism problem" by requiring that beer be sold in 8 ounce cans instead of 12 ouncers, or pounders, or the big 40 oz bottles.

You and I both know what a joke that would be. I know I would oppose such a law on general principles, even though it wouldnt affect me personally since I dont drink. I would oppose it because the entire premise behind it is absurd, and allowing some politician to take credit for "getting tough" on alcoholism through such an empty and meaningless gesture would be inherently dishonest and counterproductive.

Same deal with so-called "assault weapons". I'm not a big "assault weapon" kind of guy, never have been, but I sure as hell dont want some know-nothing politician to tell me I cant have one just because she thinks it looks icky.
 

scratch

Least Best Moderator
Staff member
Scratch,
Do you have a link for that kit?
How long is the wait?
AR15.Com - Your Firearm Resource. (AR-15, AR-10, M4 Carbine, M16, H&K, SIG, FNH, FAL, AK-47, 50 Cal, M1/M1A, Handgun, Pistol, Training, Hunting, and More!) is an AR15 forum that has a lot of manufacturer's links to them. A favorite of people on that forum as far as price is Ammunition, Magazines, Rifle Parts, Bulk Ammo and Rifle Accessories - Palmetto State Armory , where I happened to get my two stripped lower receivers. My brother builds a few and he likes Model 1 Sales: and Welcome to the RGUNS Internet Storefront . All of the sites I have looked at warn of long waits due to the backlog of parts to put these kits together, one said it will take at least two months. Most of these sites sell at least an "upper" kit, which is the barrel, top receiver, front sight and handguard put together and test fired, its best to get one that includes the bolt carrier group. A "lower" kit will be the trigger assembly that you attach the stock to. You can usually custom order these kits and build exactly what you want. My brother says you can put the trigger assembly together and attach it to the upper in about 45 minutes. An AR has a lot of springs and pins that hold it together, its pretty easy to work on. The prices have gone up some since I looked at them, so right now my previous estimate of $600 to build a complete gun looks a little too low now.
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
Bbsam---

Imagine if the government tried to "solve the alcoholism problem" by requiring that beer be sold in 8 ounce cans instead of 12 ouncers, or pounders, or the big 40 oz bottles.

You and I both know what a joke that would be. I know I would oppose such a law on general principles, even though it wouldnt affect me personally since I dont drink. I would oppose it because the entire premise behind it is absurd, and allowing some politician to take credit for "getting tough" on alcoholism through such an empty and meaningless gesture would be inherently dishonest and counterproductive.

Same deal with so-called "assault weapons". I'm not a big "assault weapon" kind of guy, never have been, but I sure as hell dont want some know-nothing politician to tell me I cant have one just because she thinks it looks icky.
absolutely perfect analogy. The differenc is that if I still drank, I wouldn't even think twice about it. So I open more cans over the course of an evening. So what?

Now if they said that they wanted to solve alcoholism by making the cans smaller and by dealing with mental health, my questions would be the same as I hve outlined for guns. I am not at all concerned about the size of the cans. What is meant by dealing with "mental health"? That used to get people like us locked up and in line for shock trreatment.

So you would cling to the 12 oz. Can and not even question mental health? I think you mentioned a slippery slope with gun regulation. Do you not see the gaping gorge of letting the government approach this angle?
 

over9five

Moderator
Staff member
A M4 style carbine that fires 5.56 NATO/.223. You want one that is designed to handle a 5.56 round, which is a hotter load than a .223. You can shoot .223 in a 5.56, but its not wise to shoot 5.56 out of an earlier designed AR. The breach and barrel are stronger for the 5.56. Personally, I would go with one with flip-up sights on a flat-top type Picatinny rail, over the older style A2 carrying handle and front sight. A quad rail for the front hand guard allows you to be able to mount all kinds of accessories.

As far as make, there are about 85 companies that build AR style rifles. They used to start at about $700 and run up to a few thousand if you wanted to go that way. You can also get on a waiting list and buy a kit that has everything except a stripped lower receiver, so its possible to put one together for $600. I was going to buy a Smith & Wesson MP 15 that was loaded with all the Mag-pul accessories I wanted for $1000 before my brother gave me my DPMS A-15. DPMS was a military contractor that is now owned by the same group that owns Bushmaster. Its considered a cheaper gun, but it shoots every time and I hit at what I aim at.

I don't think that I would buy one right now with the high prices driven by the current hysteria. I don't see any way that a ban will go through the House or Senate for that matter. I think in a few months the prices will come back down along with the price of ammo. I'm currently thinking about getting a Ruger 10/22 just to shoot with cheaper ammo.

Yup, I will probably wait a bit too. I would like to find some private sale somewhere (estate sales are sometimes good for this), where I can buy a used one and stay off the grid.
 

wkmac

Well-Known Member
Yup, I will probably wait a bit too. I would like to find some private sale somewhere (estate sales are sometimes good for this), where I can buy a used one and stay off the grid.

One good thing about the heavy hand of gov't in the case of guns, I see a robust black market in gun sales coming to bare in the near future.
:happy-very:
 

over9five

Moderator
Staff member
One good thing about the heavy hand of gov't in the case of guns, I see a robust black market in gun sales coming to bare in the near future.
:happy-very:
It's happening now. Right now, you can legally buy a used long gun with no paperwork and the government will never know. Who knows how long that will last with the idiot now in office throwing out Amendments that he swore to defend.
 

soberups

Pees in the brown Koolaid
As far as mandatory background checks for private sales go...if we are going to implement that then I would first like to see a nationwide criminal-record database that could be accessed via a toll-free 1-800 number. A private seller could call the number with the prospective buyer's driovers license or social security # and get a "go...no-go" on the sale. It wouldnt give out any details, and there would be no record of the firearms that were sold, simply a check to make sure that the prospective buyer wasnt a convicted felon. We already have a similar setup here in Oregon for licensed dealers, the buyer pays $10 for an instant background check prior to purchase. As a private seller who has sold/traded many guns recently, I personally will not sell to someone I dont know unless they can show me a Concealed Handgun license which is proof enough that they are legal to own. The law might allow me to sell to a private party with no background check, but my conscience wont. I have passed on a couple of sales because the buyer gave me a bad vibe, and when I offered to pay the $10 myself for him to take the backgound check and he refused, my suspicions were confirmed.
 

soberups

Pees in the brown Koolaid
Gonna go to Bi-mart today and get scopes mounted on both my new Rugers; the 10/22 and the Mini-Thirty. They are having a 15% off sale on optics, yesterday was my birthday, and with advancing age comes more difficulty for me in focusing on iron sights. What this means.... is that I will be marching into a department store carrying a pair so-called "assault rifles" and rather than panic and call the police, the store staff will simply take my money and install scopes on them for me while other customers walk by and admire the work being done and stop to chat about guns. Im so glad I dont live in the Peoples Republic of California, where such an event would probably cause widespread panic and a 4 square mile lockdown with trauma counselors made available for the poor people who witnessed the event.
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
Gonna go to Bi-mart today and get scopes mounted on both my new Rugers; the 10/22 and the Mini-Thirty. They are having a 15% off sale on optics, yesterday was my birthday, and with advancing age comes more difficulty for me in focusing on iron sights. What this means.... is that I will be marching into a department store carrying a pair so-called "assault rifles" and rather than panic and call the police, the store staff will simply take my money and install scopes on them for me while other customers walk by and admire the work being done and stop to chat about guns. Im so glad I dont live in the Peoples Republic of California, where such an event would probably cause widespread panic and a 4 square mile lockdown with trauma counselors made available for the poor people who witnessed the event.

You're so cool, B! - YouTube

My apologies. I don't know why I thought of this, I just did.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifgHHhw_6g8

This one even more.
 

BigUnionGuy

Got the T-Shirt
After reviewing the 23 executive orders, I've come to my first conclusion.

A woman who has been raped, and seeks psychiatric help to deal with the aftermath....

Cannot purchase a firearm, to protect herself from the same thing happening again.

2rrare8.png
 

toonertoo

Most Awesome Dog
Staff member
everything that leads up to the commission of a crime rather than piecing it together after the fact. Drunks and drug addicts, people on med or even worse those who simply stop taking them. Some might say religios fanatics. Maybe those into hardcore porn. People on a cult, people who exhibit antisocial behavior. The neurotic , the psychotic. Abusers, the victims of abuse because that is an asy cycle to predict. When you factor it all in, you really do end up stomping on the Second Amendment far more than anythin having to do with any gun legislation.
Maybe it is just me but I am having a hard time following the logic, and what it has to do with the right to keep and bear arms. Everyone, every socially unacceptable frame of mind you mention, happens to seem to me to be a mental disorder. But there are no ways to know that, unless the hippa laws are reduced to being available on a background check. As of now, I cannot get info on my husband when and if he is in the hospital unless he signs a paper saying they can talk to me.
I do not have any answers, I just know that what they are proposing does not fix the problem of the mentally ill, mass muder, and the suicide, almost 100% after. Its kinda like comparing a bridge collapse, to one that was blown up by terrorists, and making the industry of bridge building, hamstrung with the materials to use. A bridge that carries 5 people per day, being the same as one that carries 5 thousand an hour.
You can regulate the size, intensity, the amount of ammo, but there is no way any of this would have saved any of the people. The people who are insane enough to do any of these things is the problem.
What I am saying is nothing regarding the sale of weaponry is going to change the fact that we have crazy people who want to kill people. Doctors can already and is part of their oath, to report people who they feel are a danger to themselves and others. Some do, I know for a fact. Then it is up to the person called to get that person taken out of the mainstream, and there is the problem. There are no services to deal with that. That is where the energy need to be put.
Anti psychotic drugs used way too much on way too many. it needs to be used in a private, controlled setting and monitored closely.
Everything that can be said has been said, yet the administration is reaching for a warm fuzzy conclusion, to this awful pattern. And it is one that makes zero sense, and fixes nothing.
 

UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)

Well-Known Member
Gonna go to Bi-mart today and get scopes mounted on both my new Rugers; the 10/22 and the Mini-Thirty. They are having a 15% off sale on optics, yesterday was my birthday, and with advancing age comes more difficulty for me in focusing on iron sights. What this means.... is that I will be marching into a department store carrying a pair so-called "assault rifles" and rather than panic and call the police, the store staff will simply take my money and install scopes on them for me while other customers walk by and admire the work being done and stop to chat about guns. Im so glad I dont live in the Peoples Republic of California, where such an event would probably cause widespread panic and a 4 square mile lockdown with trauma counselors made available for the poor people who witnessed the event.

First of all, Happy Birthday. I turned 51 on the 16th.

Secondly, you would cause widespread panic and would get to personally meet every single law enforcement officer on duty in the area if you were to walk in to our local Walmart with 2 assault rifles.
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
Ah. So you think that the government in the interest of gun safety is going to abide by hippa rules. Background checks that already do criminal background and bribing records at going to stop where? With mental health there is no end. You trust the government with that? If they can follow your banking transactions, internet searches, phone contacts etc.with the simple suggstion that you might have contact with a terrorist, how deep will they go to "protect the children"? What is your party affiliation? How many guns do you have? How much have you spent on ammo in the last six months? Have you ever been violent? Who do you call and when? Everything plays a role in building a profile. But you think it will just stay at a simple background check? Maybe until the next mass killing. I agree that banning weapons and limiting clips does little to stop the next masacre. Background and mental health checks a little more. But that is the door to whatever they want to do. The desire is going to come to stop the shootings before they happen. They will be able to do it but not without trampling on alot more rights.
 

texan

Well-Known Member
Hundreds rally against gun control in Harrisburg

January 19, 2013 3:42 pm
[h=4]By Laura Olson / Pittsburgh Post-Gazette [/h]
HARRISBURG -- A crowd of several hundred converged outside the state Capitol today to take part in one of
the rallies against gun control measures that were scheduled across the country.

Attendees at the "Guns Across America" event here were bearing homemade signs defending gun ownership
and firearms ranging from holstered handguns to long guns.



Read more: Hundreds rally against gun control in Harrisburg - Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
 
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