Technically, doesn't that make you guilty of criminal trespass?
guns
- Thread starter moreluck
- Start date
soberups
Pees in the brown Koolaid
No, the "no guns allowed" signs are going up as a feel-good measure to placate whiney liberals.
They don't apply to criminals because criminals don't obey them. And, in my state at least, they don't apply to people like myself who hold carry permits. But hey, they do give a warm and fuzzy feeling of safety to people who are scared of guns so I guess they serve some purpose.
soberups
Pees in the brown Koolaid
No, at least not in Oregon.
In my state, if you have a carry permit you can only be charged with criminal trespass if (a) they become aware that you are carrying a concealed weapon and (b) they ask you to leave and you refuse to. Otherwise...concealed means concealed and no laws are being broken. I believe this to be the case in most other states as well.
The "no guns allowed" signs will allow the store to ban open carry, but if the intent of the person who is openly carrying is to go in there and kill a bunch of people then it is highly unlikely that he will be prevented from doing so by a sign on the door or an unarmed clerk confronting him and quoting store policy.
I think you should read the definition of "criminal trespass" again. And you're right. Criminals just ignore the law...like Brett.
brett636
Well-Known Member
I think you should read the definition of "criminal trespass" again. And you're right. Criminals just ignore the law...like Brett.
I'd imagine its different from state to state. Some backwards state like Illinois I believe the sign has the force of law, but in most free states they do not. Criminal trespass only applies if you have been asked to leave and refuse. Otherwise it isn't criminal trespass.
soberups
Pees in the brown Koolaid
I think you should research the laws in the state of Oregon.I think you should read the definition of "criminal trespass" again. And you're right. Criminals just ignore the law...like Brett.
Hypothetical scenario; a store puts up a sign on the door saying "no Skittles allowed". Does this mean you are committing the crime of criminal trespass if you enter the store with a bag of Skittles in your pocket or purse? No...a private entity cannot make an otherwise legal item (like a gun or a bag of Skittles) illegal and attach criminal penalties to it simply because you possess it on their property. All they can do is ask you to leave and you are only guilty of criminal trespass if you refuse to.
doesn't matter what anyone here says, you just keep trolling...
maybe, just maybe, if you took a firearms training course, most of your questions would be answered
Maybe Oregon is different. What I have read is that if an individual "knowingly" enters a property he knows he is forbidden from entering for matters of time, place, manner, he can be found guilty of criminal trespass. In the case of the skittles, nobody is making the skittles illegal, but the sign has made it known what manner (without skittles) is acceptable to be on the property. Knowing that and entering with said bag of skittles is the possible infraction. Are the skittles illegal? Of course not. Can a charge be leveled? Absolutely.
If you don't know the answer, just say so...or you don't have to say anything at all.
soberups
Pees in the brown Koolaid
Your information is not correct.
In order for the trespassing charge to be valid, the person carrying the "prohibited" item must refuse to leave when asked.
Mere possession of an otherwise legal item on property that "prohibits" it does not in and of itself constitute a crime.
soberups
Pees in the brown Koolaid
There is a sign on the door of the movie theater my wife and I go to occasionally that prohibits bringing in food and drink from outside.
Rather than pay $7 for a cup of soda or $5 for a bottle of water, my wife hides these items in her purse when we see a movie.
Does that make us guilty of "criminal trespass?" No it doesn't and neither does my possession of a legally concealed handgun.
Rather than pay $7 for a cup of soda or $5 for a bottle of water, my wife hides these items in her purse when we see a movie.
Does that make us guilty of "criminal trespass?" No it doesn't and neither does my possession of a legally concealed handgun.
MAKAVELI
Well-Known Member
And only a fool would believe that they are safer carrying a gun.
Maybe states are different.
I did read the Oregon statute and I'm not even sure you're right about that. I think they wrote it with just enough grey area to prosecute when and where they want to. Instead of "and" word "or" is used. I find it highly unlikely that that was overlooked.
"Knowingly" fits with what Brett said about some states giving a sign the force of law.
Sure you are. It wouldn't be prosecuted, but it doesn't make you innocent or even not guilty.
thank you
moreluck
golden ticket member
you're welcome.
soberups
Pees in the brown Koolaid
Oregon has a "pre-emption" law that prohibits cities, counties or municipalities from enacting gun laws that are stricter than or that contravene state law. This also applies to school districts, which is why persons with concealed handgun licenses can legally carry on school property even when there are "no guns allowed" signs on the door.
You are free to "interpret" the statute however you wish but I am going to rely on the information that was given to me by the sheriff's deputy who taught the class I took to get my permit.
moreluck
golden ticket member
checkmate !
soberups
Pees in the brown Koolaid
We would only be guilty of the crime of criminal trespass if we were asked to leave and refused to do so.
A property owner cannot make an otherwise legal item illegal simply by posting a sign.
This is established law regardless of how you choose to interpret the statute.
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