dilligaf
IN VINO VERITAS
I had to think about that for a minute...................... Dog, the Bounty Hunter. LOL
guns
- Thread starter moreluck
- Start date
You'd think while on a 5 DAY SUSPENSION from school (What kind of awful thing gets you 5 days???), his parents would have kept him grounded at home.
PARENTING (or lack thereof) had a lot to do with this whole situation. He'd probably be alive today if he wasn't already a troublemaker to begin with.
PARENTING (or lack thereof) had a lot to do with this whole situation. He'd probably be alive today if he wasn't already a troublemaker to begin with.
soberups
Pees in the brown Koolaid
Possibly.
However, he wouldnt have been the victim of a beating attack in the first place if he would have remained in his vehicle and let the police do their job instead of choosing to chase down and apprehend a person who had not committed any sort of violent crime.
This is a pretty wild thread when I of all people find myself in agreement with TOS, but I gotta call 'em like I see 'em. I have owned guns all my life and I have held a concealed handgun permit for over 15 years, and under no circumstances would I ever attempt to "play cop" and try to apprehend someone unless they were in the act of committing a violent felony (rape, murder, brutal assault etc.) that left me with no other choice but to use deadly force.
Even if this kid had been walking up the street smashing car windows and slashing tires, that did not give Zimmerman the right to do anything other than call 911 and provide police with a description and location of the subject. The purpose of a "neighborhood watch" program is not to act as a vigilante force, it is to act in support of the police by being a good witness and providing additional eyes and ears on the street.
Hopefully, he will still be armed when he runs into a group of black panthers.
Peace
TOS
Even if he is just innocently walking down the street? I thought that's why you are outraged about the young troublemaker. Make up your mind.
wkmac
Well-Known Member
soberups
Pees in the brown Koolaid
Even if true, it does not change the fact that Zimmerman instigated the encounter by getting out of his vehicle and pursuing an individual who had not at that point committed any sort of crime.
We also do not know if the witness saw the entire encounter from start to finish, or only what happened after Zimmerman and Martin began fighting. It is entirely plausible that Zimmerman approached Martin in a threatening manner or even tried to grab him, and Martin then acted in self defense. The fight starts, both men are punching and scuffling and shouting and rolling around on the ground, and Martin winds up "on top" at the moment that the witness first sees what is happening.
What we do know....is that Zimmerman got out of his vehicle with a gun and inititated an encounter with someone who up until that point posed no imminent threat to him or anyone else. At that point, he lost the right to claim self defense. I am not a lawyer, but my guess is that he will be up on some sort of manslaughter or negligent homicide charges. I dont think he intended to commit a murder, but he was reckless and grossly negligent in regards to his decision making with his weapon.
soberups
Pees in the brown Koolaid
Hate is wrong. Violence is wrong. You cant have it both ways.
Very True Sober. This could have all been avoided, if zimmerman had let the police do the policing.
What is forgotten here is the victims rights (Trayvons). Does he lose his rights because he's black? Why do those supporting the shooter forget that Jayvon has the right to free travel, the right to be presumed innocent until proven guilty, the freedom to go anywhere he pleases no matter what happens at school. Where does anyone understand that TRAYVON listening to a strange man shouting at him probably feared for his own safety and when confronted by a man with a gun tried to defend HIMSELF?
But what chance did he have against a gun??
From moreluck to brett, both disregard TRAYVONs right to self defense. He was confronted for NO REASON. He had NOT committed any crimes, he was NOT suspected of breaking into any homes despite Zimmermans claims the "he was casing the neighborhood".
The only reason Zimmerman had for making this claim was purely race inspired. Of course we all know that BLACKS are always guilty, right Brett and Moreluck?
On the tape, Zimmerman mutters "friend-ing Coons, they always get away", clearly unhappy with being directed to stay away from the kid and thinking he would "GET AWAY".
This was an unintentional murder by a angry racist who should not have had a gun in the first place. All you have to do is listen to his first call to the police. He says sooooo many unproven things to the cops in order to get the cops attention. In other words, HE LIES to "blow up" the situation for his own personal needs.
He tells the cops that he sees a suspicious guy walking around wearing a grey hoodie, then he calmly says, "he looks like hes on drugs" " and up to no good", he then states "weve had a serious of robberies in the neighborhood"..he tells the police that he looks black and that "its raining and hes just walking about". He then states that Trayvon is just staring at houses and then claims Trayvon is staring at him.
He then tells the police that trayvon has his "hand in his wasteband" and something is wrong with him. He tells police that Trayvon "is walking towards him with his hand in his wasteband and has something in that hand".
He then tells police through "inflection" that he is afraid and hurry and send the police there.
CLEARLY, the police tells him NOT TO FOLLOW THE KID. The police were ALREADY on the WAY so there was NO NEED for Zimmerman to have chased him, not to mention chase him with a gun.
He clearly lies and fabricates the situation to make it worse than it was. He implies that the kid was near the clubhouse and suggesting that the kid may rob it.
WHAT IS CRYSTAL CLEAR about this audio tape is the INTENTION of Zimmerman.
During the call, he states "friend-cking coons, they always get away", but NOT THIS "COON". He was going to make sure of that. All the previous "coons" who robbed his neighborhood got away, but this one was going to make up for all the rest who escaped justice.
This "coon" was finally going to meet justice, Zimmermans way. Zimmerman believed at that moment that this kid had no rights or protections, he was merely a criminal and Zimmerman was going to provide the instant justice on the street.
He engages the kid after chasing him, a scuffle breaks out and zimmerman shoots the kid and kills him. Then, he claims it was in self defense, he had already layed down the foundation for the excuse. He told police the guy was starting at him, coming at him, hand his hand in his wasteband, had something in his hand, what more did the police need to believe this was a burglar?
Its disgusting those thay want to see this in any other fashion. BLACKS are people too. KIDS dont deserve to pay with their lives for things that they didnt do. I take offense to comments like Bretts and Morelucks who believe this kid had no rights.
Trayvon is a human being and a citizen of the United States.
Its a simple matter of humanity people. Hating a race of people and justifying horrible things that happen to them is beyond ridiculous.
Peace
Tos
Im agreeing with your interpretation of what "your" america looks like. Innocent persons shot with guns for no reason. If it was good enough for trayvon, then it should be good enough for zimmerman or yourself.
Peace
TOS
dilligaf
IN VINO VERITAS
It was a facetious remark toward Brett. it is my interpretation of "his" depiction of american justice that sickens me.
Peace
TOS
brett636
Well-Known Member
This is the point I have been getting at all along. We don't know what happened beyond what the media has reported. Now we have a witness corroborating Zimmerman's side of the story, and you are completely right that we don't know how much of the ordeal the witness saw. What if Martin overheard Zimmerman talking to the police and took offense to it so he decided to go attack Zimmerman? 17 year olds out on a 5 day school suspension are not known to have great reasoning or rationing skills. Its obvious the truth will come out and we will know what happened and what the justice system will ultimately do about this case. I'm with you on that my intuition tells me Zimmerman will be facing some sort of criminal charge, but that is only based on what I know from the facts as reported by the media and all it takes is one or two facts misstated or ignored to make this case seem like something it may not be.
wkmac
Well-Known Member
Good point Sober!
And to the general discussion:
As I've listened to everything I could about this tragic event, I've heard it spoken that Zimmerman had a right to stand his ground which is used to justify his action of using lethal force. Part of the argument is that Zimmerman has done no wrong and because he was in fear of his life if you will. More to this granted but just simplifying. But wait a minute, Trayvon we know was also innocent and we also know that Zimmerman was following Trayvon and that Zimmerman was armed and Trayvon was not. Does Trayvon therefore also have the right of self defense and to also stand his ground and be in fear of his own life? Based on the known outcome now, Trayvon's fear if it was present would have been warranted.
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