guns

soberups

Pees in the brown Koolaid
I listened to the audio tape of the 911 call.

Zimmerman comments to the dispatcher that "these a%&holes always get away".

Even more troubling...he mumbles the words "fuc&%ing coons" under his breath immediately before the 911 dispatcher tells him NOT to follow Martin any further. I listened to the 911 tape several times, and it is pretty clear what he said. I suppose its theoretically possible that he said "goons" but given the context of the call I find it highly unlikely.

Assuming that it is an authentic copy of the tape, this is pretty damning evidence against Zimmerman.
 

soberups

Pees in the brown Koolaid
Good point Sober!

And to the general discussion:

As I've listened to everything I could about this tragic event, I've heard it spoken that Zimmerman had a right to stand his ground which is used to justify his action of using lethal force. Part of the argument is that Zimmerman has done no wrong and because he was in fear of his life if you will. More to this granted but just simplifying. But wait a minute, Trayvon we know was also innocent and we also know that Zimmerman was following Trayvon and that Zimmerman was armed and Trayvon was not. Does Trayvon therefore also have the right of self defense and to also stand his ground and be in fear of his own life? Based on the known outcome now, Trayvon's fear if it was present would have been warranted.

My understanding of the "stand your ground" law is that it is intended to afford protection for a person who truly acted in self defense by removing the legal requirement that the person has to somehow "retreat" before resorting to lethal force. In other words...if you are minding your own business and someone attacks you with intent to kill or cause great bodily harm, and you shoot them....they cant automatically prosecute you for not trying to run away first.

I agree with the underlying principle of the "stand your ground" law....but it should not apply to a person who has instigated an encounter or who willfully participates in an encounter.
 

toonertoo

Most Awesome Dog
Staff member
If it is an authentic 911 call then I would say Zimmerman had a mission, that was wrong. And it is a sad day for all, if Zimmerman did this intentionally. I for one will wait for more eveidence.
 

dilligaf

IN VINO VERITAS
My understanding of "stand your ground" are that one has to be in fear of their life without any obligation to retreat. Yes, I said 'without'. It is the Castle Doctrine. Sober has it correct. One does NOT have to retreat.

It will be interesting to see the outcome of this. No matter how it goes, there will be a sect that will NOT be happy about the results.
 

tourists24

Well-Known Member
Even if true, it does not change the fact that Zimmerman instigated the encounter by getting out of his vehicle and pursuing an individual who had not at that point committed any sort of crime.

We also do not know if the witness saw the entire encounter from start to finish, or only what happened after Zimmerman and Martin began fighting. It is entirely plausible that Zimmerman approached Martin in a threatening manner or even tried to grab him, and Martin then acted in self defense. The fight starts, both men are punching and scuffling and shouting and rolling around on the ground, and Martin winds up "on top" at the moment that the witness first sees what is happening.

What we do know....is that Zimmerman got out of his vehicle with a gun and inititated an encounter with someone who up until that point posed no imminent threat to him or anyone else. At that point, he lost the right to claim self defense. I am not a lawyer, but my guess is that he will be up on some sort of manslaughter or negligent homicide charges. I dont think he intended to commit a murder, but he was reckless and grossly negligent in regards to his decision making with his weapon.
ok,,, maybe i missed something,, but where exactly was it proven that Zimmerman initiated things by leaving his vehicle and confronting the kid? it is a game changer in my mind. Simply following him IMO can be be defended
 

Babagounj

Strength through joy
so bhos says Martin would look just like his son , if he had one......
Hmmm.......6'2 ,200 lbs, high school football player.
Ya a perfect match.
 

dilligaf

IN VINO VERITAS
ok,,, maybe i missed something,, but where exactly was it proven that Zimmerman initiated things by leaving his vehicle and confronting the kid? it is a game changer in my mind. Simply following him IMO can be be defended
This is the problem T. Everything we have heard is based on media interpretation although the 911 call has been released. Allegedly, Zimmerman was told NOT to follow and to stay in his car. I do not know how accurate that information is. There are those that are playing judge, jury and executioner without hearing the final outcome of the investigation. We are not privy to all the details yet.
 

The Other Side

Well-Known Troll
Troll
This is the problem T. Everything we have heard is based on media interpretation although the 911 call has been released. Allegedly, Zimmerman was told NOT to follow and to stay in his car. I do not know how accurate that information is. There are those that are playing judge, jury and executioner without hearing the final outcome of the investigation. We are not privy to all the details yet.

Why not try listening to the 911 tape I posted for yourself? Why wait to be told what was said? Why not hear it for yourself and make a decision on what you hear? There is no ambiguity on the tape. The dispatcher clearly hears him running after the kid and asks him "are you following the suspect?" , zimmerman responds "YES" and the dispatcher tells him "WE DONT NEED YOU TO DO THAT" "WE HAVE OFFICERS ENROUTE"...

What further do you need to hear? Pretty clear stuff.

At that point, what crime did this kid commit that would warrant Zimmerman giving chase? Is it illegal to run? Is it illegal to go in the opposite direction of someone following you with a gun? Zimmerman himself on the tape says "the guy is just standing there looking around"....

NOT ONCE did he say he committed any crime(s).... He makes a further judgement from a distance establishing (in zimmermans opinion) that the kid was on drugs. How did he establish this?? Cause he's black?

Everything zimmerman did after making the 9/11 call he did out of hate. HATE for black people, hate for the friend-ing coons who get away all the time. He did his civic duty, he made a call and reported a suspicious person. THATS ALL HE HAD TO DO. There was NO NEED for him to do anything further.

If the kid vanished into the night SOOOO WHAAAAAAAT! What did he do wrong? There is no proof any cars were vandalized at the time, there is no proof any homes were burglurized at the time, there were no homocides at the time....

Zimmerman was going to make this "HIS" personal street justice.

How about asking yourself this question?

WHEN did Zimmerman pull the gun? What hand was it in? Was he standing or laying down? Was he face down or face up? Was he on top on trayvon or under him? When the ballistics report is completed, this will come out. It will be easy to see how close the gun was to trayvons body, it will be easy to see the trajectory of the entry of the bullet, it will be easy to determine at what distance he was shot.

This is where ZIMMERMAN will be placed on trial for murder. YOU CANT LIE ABOUT TRAJECTORY.

ASK yourself, if ziimerman was chasing the kid, was he yelling at him to stop? Did he threaten to shoot him if he didnt stop? Did he already produce the gun in a threatening manner and trayvon in a matter of self defense attempted to save his own life by punching zimmerman?

Was Zimmerman faking the yelling (if it was him) to draw attention of witnesses just before he shot trayvon??

I had a neighbor woman who would scream "help me, help me, please help me" everytime she got caught cheating by her husband and he tried to toss her out of the house. At first, sounds real, but when you clear the smoke, you see a desperate woman trying to "stage" an attack.

I believe Zimmerman did just that. Chased this kid after being told not to, brandished a weapon, made threats then when confronted, screamed for help just before shooting the kid in the chest. I say the ballistics report will show that the kid was shot from about 8 feet in the chest and there will be no powder burns on trayvons skin indicating he was shot at a distance.

You cant fake that.

DILL, do yourself a favor and give it a listen. You may change your mind.

Peace

TOS
 

Babagounj

Strength through joy
Zimmerman was attacked from behind , hit with something in the back of his head that left a deep gash.
He was in fact walking away .
Martin approached him.
He was then rolled onto his back , while Martin assaulted his head and face.
The blood curdling screams for help you hear on the 911 tapes are coming from Zimmerman.
This was an attempted murder of a latino family man who was the captian of the Neigborhood Watch
It wasn't for the Stand Your Ground law, Zimmerman being a law abiding citizen wouldn't have been able to survive the attack

The witness is black , btw His testimony to the police back up the calls to the police and Zimmerman's statements.
[h=1]Witness Speaks: Martin Attacked Zimmerman[/h]
 

moreluck

golden ticket member
Why not try listening to the 911 tape I posted for yourself? Why wait to be told what was said? Why not hear it for yourself and make a decision on what you hear? There is no ambiguity on the tape. The dispatcher clearly hears him running after the kid and asks him "are you following the suspect?" , zimmerman responds "YES" and the dispatcher tells him "WE DONT NEED YOU TO DO THAT" "WE HAVE OFFICERS ENROUTE"...

What further do you need to hear? Pretty clear stuff.

At that point, what crime did this kid commit that would warrant Zimmerman giving chase? Is it illegal to run? Is it illegal to go in the opposite direction of someone following you with a gun? Zimmerman himself on the tape says "the guy is just standing there looking around"....

NOT ONCE did he say he committed any crime(s).... He makes a further judgement from a distance establishing (in zimmermans opinion) that the kid was on drugs. How did he establish this?? Cause he's black?

Everything zimmerman did after making the 9/11 call he did out of hate. HATE for black people, hate for the friend-ing coons who get away all the time. He did his civic duty, he made a call and reported a suspicious person. THATS ALL HE HAD TO DO. There was NO NEED for him to do anything further.

If the kid vanished into the night SOOOO WHAAAAAAAT! What did he do wrong? There is no proof any cars were vandalized at the time, there is no proof any homes were burglurized at the time, there were no homocides at the time....

Zimmerman was going to make this "HIS" personal street justice.

How about asking yourself this question?

WHEN did Zimmerman pull the gun? What hand was it in? Was he standing or laying down? Was he face down or face up? Was he on top on trayvon or under him? When the ballistics report is completed, this will come out. It will be easy to see how close the gun was to trayvons body, it will be easy to see the trajectory of the entry of the bullet, it will be easy to determine at what distance he was shot.

This is where ZIMMERMAN will be placed on trial for murder. YOU CANT LIE ABOUT TRAJECTORY.

ASK yourself, if ziimerman was chasing the kid, was he yelling at him to stop? Did he threaten to shoot him if he didnt stop? Did he already produce the gun in a threatening manner and trayvon in a matter of self defense attempted to save his own life by punching zimmerman?

Was Zimmerman faking the yelling (if it was him) to draw attention of witnesses just before he shot trayvon??

I had a neighbor woman who would scream "help me, help me, please help me" everytime she got caught cheating by her husband and he tried to toss her out of the house. At first, sounds real, but when you clear the smoke, you see a desperate woman trying to "stage" an attack.

I believe Zimmerman did just that. Chased this kid after being told not to, brandished a weapon, made threats then when confronted, screamed for help just before shooting the kid in the chest. I say the ballistics report will show that the kid was shot from about 8 feet in the chest and there will be no powder burns on trayvons skin indicating he was shot at a distance.

You cant fake that.

DILL, do yourself a favor and give it a listen. You may change your mind.

Peace

TOS
Who died and made you a grand jury member ? Just pull in your fangs and wait like the rest of us have to wait.
 

dilligaf

IN VINO VERITAS
Why not try listening to the 911 tape I posted for yourself? Why wait to be told what was said? Why not hear it for yourself and make a decision on what you hear? There is no ambiguity on the tape. The dispatcher clearly hears him running after the kid and asks him "are you following the suspect?" , zimmerman responds "YES" and the dispatcher tells him "WE DONT NEED YOU TO DO THAT" "WE HAVE OFFICERS ENROUTE"...

What further do you need to hear? Pretty clear stuff.

At that point, what crime did this kid commit that would warrant Zimmerman giving chase? Is it illegal to run? Is it illegal to go in the opposite direction of someone following you with a gun? Zimmerman himself on the tape says "the guy is just standing there looking around"....

NOT ONCE did he say he committed any crime(s).... He makes a further judgement from a distance establishing (in zimmermans opinion) that the kid was on drugs. How did he establish this?? Cause he's black?

Everything zimmerman did after making the 9/11 call he did out of hate. HATE for black people, hate for the friend-ing coons who get away all the time. He did his civic duty, he made a call and reported a suspicious person. THATS ALL HE HAD TO DO. There was NO NEED for him to do anything further.

If the kid vanished into the night SOOOO WHAAAAAAAT! What did he do wrong? There is no proof any cars were vandalized at the time, there is no proof any homes were burglurized at the time, there were no homocides at the time....

Zimmerman was going to make this "HIS" personal street justice.

How about asking yourself this question?

WHEN did Zimmerman pull the gun? What hand was it in? Was he standing or laying down? Was he face down or face up? Was he on top on trayvon or under him? When the ballistics report is completed, this will come out. It will be easy to see how close the gun was to trayvons body, it will be easy to see the trajectory of the entry of the bullet, it will be easy to determine at what distance he was shot.

This is where ZIMMERMAN will be placed on trial for murder. YOU CANT LIE ABOUT TRAJECTORY.

ASK yourself, if ziimerman was chasing the kid, was he yelling at him to stop? Did he threaten to shoot him if he didnt stop? Did he already produce the gun in a threatening manner and trayvon in a matter of self defense attempted to save his own life by punching zimmerman?

Was Zimmerman faking the yelling (if it was him) to draw attention of witnesses just before he shot trayvon??

I had a neighbor woman who would scream "help me, help me, please help me" everytime she got caught cheating by her husband and he tried to toss her out of the house. At first, sounds real, but when you clear the smoke, you see a desperate woman trying to "stage" an attack.

I believe Zimmerman did just that. Chased this kid after being told not to, brandished a weapon, made threats then when confronted, screamed for help just before shooting the kid in the chest. I say the ballistics report will show that the kid was shot from about 8 feet in the chest and there will be no powder burns on trayvons skin indicating he was shot at a distance.

You cant fake that.

DILL, do yourself a favor and give it a listen. You may change your mind.

Peace

TOS
Sounds like you might be wrong again. Imagine that.............................

BTW - I am not the investigator. I think I will let the professionals do their job.
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
So now we hear the young thug attacked Mr Zimmerman from behind.

Hmmm, when will the whole story come out??
Honest question. Why are you willing to quickly believe this narrative? It hasn't come from the "investigation" and seems like an eyewitness materialized out of nowhere.
 
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