Handshake Agreement

[Coldworld]

maybe if more of our part-time folks were able to bid on those driving jobs back then, the damn wait would be so long today. Although, many places are seeing much shorter wait times than a few years ago. Also, when the drivers from the late 70, early 80's retire there will be MANY openings start to pop up and I dont think we will have enough part time people who will want to do it....especially with the combo jobs, and seeing first hand how ups runs most routes into the ground, make absolute nonsense changes that only make the customers mad. Management in operations absolutely do not care about customers needs and wants. Other groups at ups, reps, call centers, sales, all have to scramble to fix what some dumb**** in operations ruined,, and now the reps are scrambling to stop customers from jumping ship to fedex....this is happening everyday. So whos fault is it that volume is going somewhere else at times.dont mind my post that starts with one subject and ends with another11

 

[tieguy]

Oh, good for you guys.

You get a $9 an hour increase in your already high wage over the next 5 years.

Notice not a thing is mentioned about us part timers.

Wayy tooooo early to make any such judgements on the deal offered. I'm sure there are many details to yet be announced. give it time before jumping off the deep end.

 

[Pollocknbrown]

In 02 all upsers received the same raise $6 an hour over 6 years, p-time and friend-time.

What i have heard is, we are looking at roughly 75 cents a year raise per year over the 5 years, heres a twist, we will get our raises every 6 months instead of yearly, so half of the raise aug 1st and the other half feb 1st. Now i here that p-timers will start at $8.50 but after 90 days they will go upto $10.50 an hour, (still not enough if you ask me), i also heard that we will get $1 an hour pension increase yearly, for another $200 weekly at the end of the contract in 2013. Double time for hours worked over 8 on 8 hour request days, stronger overtime language.

This is from a pretty reliable source, i have heard other things but some seem to much to believe so i woul;d hate to spread rumors. I advise everyone to start calling your locals and ask for this info now, to show a concerned stance, the last thing we need is to get it and have to vote on it immediately.

I heard the same thing too from the guy who use to be a driver and now works on the inside because driving wore him down.....he talked to our BA up here in buffalo, my question is, will i be compensated to be at or above that rate of 10.50? Because if someone starts on Aug 2, 2008, after 90 days they will be making the exact same amount as me, granted ill only have 1 year in but i feel its a little unfair to those of us who have a little bit of time in it.

 

[longlunchguy]

DOUBLE TIME I'm requesting 8 every day

 

[VTBrown]

Ok here we go again.

1st. I worked UPS PreLoad 10 years ago in a feeder and loading.
1A. Was a Saturday Air Driver as well.

2nd. I was a Full-Time FedEx Express Cover Driver for almost 4 years.
2A - AM and PM Sort Coordinator
2B - Saturday Coordinator
3C - Aspire participant
4D - Won the North East Humanitarian Award
5E - Spill Clean UP and HazMat Specialist

3rd. I worked as a Seasonal Temp for UPS and was hired on Cover afterwards.
3A - Sales Lead Committee

Since I needed to defend my past and now you know. I've a very good idea of our industry.

YES even us drivers are over paid dirty manual laborers. I've said that in another post. So you guys trying to use that against me is pretty stupid.

The point of the matter IS:

The bottom feeder job of PreLoad and Local Sort is considered a stepping stone by UPS.
Your thought to be there because of the benefits or the opportunity to go full-time in either management or package.

If you DON'T need the benefits and DON'T want to go full-time then I'm sorry you are pretty stupid for complaining about trying to make ends meet for your family. Especially when you factor in most centers have only 3.5hrs available and you have Union Dues.

Another thing I've read is complaining about union dues....you Part-timers pay the same rate as us Full-timers. It's all relative.

Prior to PAS we as Drivers had to sort our cars much more then we do now as most of you just threw the packages in the correct section (we hoped). Once in awhile you found a PreLoader that actually cared but they were few and far between.

With PAS I hardly ever get a bad load and it's usually do to an Add/Cut done late. Most are pretty damn in sequence too.

So I'm guessing that looking at a truck number and then number sequence is easier to load by. Going by my center no one is loading anymore cars then they did prior to PAS.

As I said before somewhere....We both do easy jobs mine and the part-timers. We as drivers are over-paid as are the 22.3, Air drivers and feeder guys for what we do.

We are dirty manual laborers.If I was looking to make ends meet for my family, Part-time UPS work would be pretty stupid unless I was looking to the future....then at that point you make sacrifices.

 

[Big Babooba]

Personally, I think ALL drivers should start out in the hub...period.

At our building, it used to be that a part timer bidding on preload had to make their 30 days driving. If they made seniority, then they could get their bid job. The company did this because a preloader could be bumped on the road by a more senior driver during the annual bid.

 

[nhguy]

Why would anyone who already works here care what the starting pay rate for part timers is? I can assure you that new people off the street aren't going to make more than you if you've been here a year already.
The teamsters shouldn't care what the starting rate is either. It's the compnaies problem if they can't get people to work because their pay rate is too low.

There is a major flaw in the thinking of every part time employee. Your hourly pay rate is only a small portion of your total hourly rate that it cost UPS. Last time I saw a figure it costs UPS $23.00/HR FOR EVERY PART TIME EMPLOYEE when you add in all the benefits. You can't have it both ways!

I'm sure the teamsters like the low salary rate because they get the benefit money and most of these people never stay long enough to draw a pension. It's all extra money into the kitty. Maybe there should be a rebate back to the company if an employee gets contributions and never collects off the contributions.

Remember the Big fish always eats the little ones

 

[rumblestrips]

Everyone on this this string is worried about the financial aspects of the tentative agreement. Part-timers should be, full-timers earn good money. If anyone ever goes to upsers.com, you will notice that the company states that this contract allows flexibility that will be beneficial to the company.

What do you think this flexibility will be? It will be a seven day work week for deliveries, hopefully the five continuous days will still be in there, and for feeders, it will be more scabbing of freight, particularly by ups freight (overnite). That is their idea of flexibility.

The language of the contract is more important than the financial benefits to be received (we make good money.) The company may throw nice increases in health and welfare, but, by allowing important language changes, the money means nothing if your rights have been squandered as a trade off, and it will come back to haunt you in the future..

 

[UPS Lifer]

I have to agree 705 that $8.50 is a joke as a starting pay at what could be the start of a career.They have the right idea with the raise after 90 days but they have to raise it more if they want to get good people that will stay.
coldworld...the 70's was a long time ago,heck it was just after the 60's.

One of my jobs was a training manager in an regional air hub. The cost to train a new hire was approx $4000. This does not count the wage. It does include the recruitment, HR and training costs as well as any follow up training prior to the end of probation. Most of that cost is front loaded. Turnover can be dramatic depending on the area. Most of the time in the initial stages of employement these people do not leave because of wages. They leave because of some other issue. Generally, the work is to demanding or to physical or just isn't going to fit in with school or the other job.

If UPS paid a higher wage initially to these folks, there would be a great deal of money wasted. I would rather reward the folks that stick it out after probation with a higher wage. This will give people an incentive to make it. Less turnover means more experience in the PT ranks and less wasted cost.

 

[Up_and_at_UPS]

Most of the time in the initial stages of employement these people do not leave because of wages. They leave because of some other issue. Generally, the work is to demanding or to physical or just isn't going to fit in with school or the other job.

If UPS paid a higher wage initially to these folks, there would be a great deal of money wasted. I would rather reward the folks that stick it out after probation with a higher wage. This will give people an incentive to make it. Less turnover means more experience in the PT ranks and less wasted cost.

I disagree, the low wage makes it easier to throw in the towel. People will put up with a lot when the get good pay. Most leave because they can make just as much at some other job that is a lot less demanding. Low wages feed the issues that make them leave. If you would ask those that leave if they would stay if you increased their pay five dollars per hour with yealy increases of at least $.70, mostly all of them would stay. Flexibility goes up as the pay goes up. UPS is getting what they pay for, they throw away $4,000+ a hire because the the low wages tell the new hires they are not worth a hill of beans!!! Wal-mart, one of the worst employers in the countriy starts their warehouse workers at $11.00 an hour. I have seen guys leave UPS for Wal-mart. That's laughable, and worst yet it's pathetic. Look at the turn over rates from the early eighties and compare them to today. Money would not be wasted if UPS payed the new hires more initially, money is wasted because UPS does not pay the new hires enough initially. Your argument holds no water!

I am one of the few who stick it out, few do, if the starting wages increased a man would be hard pressed to land a job at UPS. The waiting list would be long.

 

[UPS Lifer]

I disagree, the low wage makes it easier to throw in the towel. People will put up with a lot when the get good pay. Most leave because they can make just as much at some other job that is a lot less demanding. If you look at my quote you wil see that I said that people leave because the job is too demanding! When I was a hub manager and as a training manager I interviewed every employee that left. I had to dig through the embarrassment that these folks had because they feel like they failed.
Low wages feed the issues that make them leave. Through actual interviews - I can tell you that low wages was about 10% of the problem. In fact, when wages came up, it was because the employee had gone through the interview process with many other companies and a better offer opened up for them....Usually a full time job! If you would ask those that leave if they would stay if you increased their pay five dollars per hour with yealy increases of at least $.70, mostly all of them would stay. Flexibility goes up as the pay goes up. UPS is getting what they pay for, they throw away $4,000+ a hire because the the low wages tell the new hires they are not worth a hill of beans!!! Wal-mart, one of the worst employers in the countriy starts their warehouse workers at $11.00 an hour. I have seen guys leave UPS for Wal-mart. That's laughable, and worst yet it's pathetic. Look at the turn over rates from the early eighties and compare them to today. Money would not be wasted if UPS payed the new hires more initially, money is wasted because UPS does not pay the new hires enough initially. Your argument holds no water!

I am one of the few who stick it out, few do, if the starting wages increased a man would be hard pressed to land a job at UPS. The waiting list would be long.

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

Ok here we go again.

1st. I worked UPS PreLoad 10 years ago in a feeder and loading.
1A. Was a Saturday Air Driver as well.

2nd. I was a Full-Time FedEx Express Cover Driver for almost 4 years.
2A - AM and PM Sort Coordinator
2B - Saturday Coordinator
3C - Aspire participant
4D - Won the North East Humanitarian Award
5E - Spill Clean UP and HazMat Specialist

3rd. I worked as a Seasonal Temp for UPS and was hired on Cover afterwards.
3A - Sales Lead Committee

Since I needed to defend my past and now you know. I've a very good idea of our industry.

YES even us drivers are over paid dirty manual laborers. I've said that in another post. So you guys trying to use that against me is pretty stupid.

The point of the matter IS:

The bottom feeder job of PreLoad and Local Sort is considered a stepping stone by UPS.
Your thought to be there because of the benefits or the opportunity to go full-time in either management or package.

If you DON'T need the benefits and DON'T want to go full-time then I'm sorry you are pretty stupid for complaining about trying to make ends meet for your family. Especially when you factor in most centers have only 3.5hrs available and you have Union Dues.

Another thing I've read is complaining about union dues....you Part-timers pay the same rate as us Full-timers. It's all relative.

Prior to PAS we as Drivers had to sort our cars much more then we do now as most of you just threw the packages in the correct section (we hoped). Once in awhile you found a PreLoader that actually cared but they were few and far between.

With PAS I hardly ever get a bad load and it's usually do to an Add/Cut done late. Most are pretty damn in sequence too.

So I'm guessing that looking at a truck number and then number sequence is easier to load by. Going by my center no one is loading anymore cars then they did prior to PAS.

As I said before somewhere....We both do easy jobs mine and the part-timers. We as drivers are over-paid as are the 22.3, Air drivers and feeder guys for what we do.

We are dirty manual laborers.If I was looking to make ends meet for my family, Part-time UPS work would be pretty stupid unless I was looking to the future....then at that point you make sacrifices.

I guess all those part-timers that are making $20+/hr along with a second job and having no trouble suppporting their families are "stupid"??? Now that is funny. It doesn't matter how long your list of credentials is if your arrogance is blinding you.

 

[supercool]

As another stupid PTer who is trying to work his way through college at UPS, it's a little offensive to say that we PTers shouldn't be adequately compensated by such a financially successful company. After 2.5 years I'm making $11/hr, which isn't awful, but $13-14/hr would be much nicer. UPS is one of the few companies I can work at that lets me work at hours that allow me to concentrate on school, gives me healthcare and tuition reimbursement, and gives me a good workout day in and day out. During our sort timings last night I was timed at 3240pph. I work VERY hard for my money. I've been searching for jobs that would be a good substitute for UPS's benefits, but there aren't many to be found. Sure, I understand that the benefits I receive lower my hourly pay, but this is 2007, and living in a city and going to school does cost a lot of money. A lot of people are leaving for jobs that pay better and require less work because they have more scheduling flexibility... if I could do that, I would. Maybe PTer pay should be like driver pay... starts low, but goes up significantly after a couple years of good service to the company.

 

[UPS Lifer]

I accidently sent my last post...This is the completed version.UPS Lifer

I disagree, the low wage makes it easier to throw in the towel. People will put up with a lot when the get good pay. Most leave because they can make just as much at some other job that is a lot less demanding.If you look at my post you will see that it states that new hires leave because the job is too demanding! Low wages feed the issues that make them leave. I personally interviewed people that left, the issue of wage only came up with about 10% of the people. It was because these folks put in job applications for FT work at other companies and a position opened up. A lot of new hires leave because they think they can get a FT job after being hired. Once they get a foot in the door they realize that FT isn't going to happen. Another big factor is the inability to balance the job and school.
If you would ask those that leave if they would stay if you increased their pay five dollars per hour with yealy increases of at least $.70, mostly all of them would stay. Flexibility goes up as the pay goes up. UPS is getting what they pay for, they throw away $4,000+ a hire because the the low wages tell the new hires they are not worth a hill of beans!!!UPS is not getting what we pay for...we are getting what is in the market place. The unemployment rate is at historical low points for a few years now. The pool of people is slim! Wal-mart, one of the worst employers in the countriy starts their warehouse workers at $11.00 an hour. I have seen guys leave UPS for Wal-mart. And what kind of benefits does Walmart give their PT employees??? (This is really laughable and even more pathetic)That's laughable, and worst yet it's pathetic. Look at the turn over rates from the early eighties and compare them to today. UPS does not want career part time employees. If a partimer works between 1 & 2 years the company is satisfied. This is a job to assist you to get through college. It is not UPS fault that PT folks want to make a career here. If there are enough openings that is wonderful. It is supply and demand.Money would not be wasted if UPS payed the new hires more initially, money is wasted because UPS does not pay the new hires enough initially. Your argument holds no water! As a training manager, I was responsible for the hiring practice of over 1500 part time employees so I do have some first hand knowledge in this area. Also, I have had dealings with many company executives that have experienced similar hiring challenges as UPS.

I am one of the few who stick it out,Please tell me why you stuck it out. It obviously had nothing to do with low wages or you would be gone Help me to understand. few do, if the starting wages increased a man would be hard pressed to land a job at UPS. The waiting list would be long.

If you have decided to stay, you will be able to make a wonderful career for you and your family and I wish you the best, no matter what you decide to do with your future. UPS Lifer

 

[UPS Lifer]

I had a professor from a local college working for me. Some of our college students actually took his classes. He became a shop steward. I asked him why he continued to work at UPS. He said that he had better benefits here meaning UPS than he had working for the college.

Needless to say...he was not STUPID!!!

 

[bear123]

Thank you so much for pointing out the obvious Bear. Ever hear of facetious?

Yes and I was also being facetious. The reason why I menitoned it in the first place was that I heard mgmt is going to do their own sell job at all the locals. In a few days we will be hearing PCM's from our supervisors on how great this contract is. Don't get me wrong Lefty, on the surface the contract doesn't look half-bad.
I don't know if you were around in 1982, but mgmt made a huge blitz when it came to advertising that contract, and look where it got us: two-tier wages.
I guess what I am saying, until I see all of the bits and pieces of the contract in detail, I am always skittish when mgmt gets involved in trying to tell us to vote yes on this contract.

 

[bear123]

By the way, I know not everybody has seen the details of this contract, but has anyone heard if the contract will include more Art. 22 jobs and if so how many

 

[brownrodster]

someone I know in the union just told me progression is changing to 36 months for full time driving.

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

One issue that I hope is covered in the contract is that of management using part-time cover drivers to supplement the full-time drivers. This has to stop. If we are being used that much then it should be obvious that the center needs more full-time drivers.

 

[Up_and_at_UPS]

I accidently sent my last post...This is the completed version.UPS Lifer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Up_and_at_UPS
I disagree, the low wage makes it easier to throw in the towel. People will put up with a lot when the get good pay. Most leave because they can make just as much at some other job that is a lot less demanding.If you look at my post you will see that it states that new hires leave because the job is too demanding! Low wages feed the issues that make them leave. I personally interviewed people that left, the issue of wage only came up with about 10% of the people. It was because these folks put in job applications for FT work at other companies and a position opened up. A lot of new hires leave because they think they can get a FT job after being hired. Once they get a foot in the door they realize that FT isn't going to happen. Another big factor is the inability to balance the job and school.
If you would ask those that leave if they would stay if you increased their pay five dollars per hour with yealy increases of at least $.70, mostly all of them would stay. Flexibility goes up as the pay goes up. UPS is getting what they pay for, they throw away $4,000+ a hire because the the low wages tell the new hires they are not worth a hill of beans!!!UPS is not getting what we pay for...we are getting what is in the market place. The unemployment rate is at historical low points for a few years now. The pool of people is slim! Wal-mart, one of the worst employers in the countriy starts their warehouse workers at $11.00 an hour. I have seen guys leave UPS for Wal-mart. And what kind of benefits does Walmart give their PT employees??? (This is really laughable and even more pathetic)That's laughable, and worst yet it's pathetic. Look at the turn over rates from the early eighties and compare them to today. UPS does not want career part time employees. If a partimer works between 1 & 2 years the company is satisfied. This is a job to assist you to get through college. It is not UPS fault that PT folks want to make a career here. If there are enough openings that is wonderful. It is supply and demand.Money would not be wasted if UPS payed the new hires more initially, money is wasted because UPS does not pay the new hires enough initially. Your argument holds no water! As a training manager, I was responsible for the hiring practice of over 1500 part time employees so I do have some first hand knowledge in this area. Also, I have had dealings with many company executives that have experienced similar hiring challenges as UPS.

I am one of the few who stick it out,Please tell me why you stuck it out. It obviously had nothing to do with low wages or you would be gone Help me to understand. few do, if the starting wages increased a man would be hard pressed to land a job at UPS. The waiting list would be long.

If you have decided to stay, you will be able to make a wonderful career for you and your family and I wish you the best, no matter what you decide to do with your future. UPS Lifer

I stay because I know it is worth it in the long run. As far as everything else goes, I am only stating that people stay longer and tough things out when the perks are better. Men who don't give a lick about "Men's Health" will pick it up and read it if a half naked lady is on the cover. People put up with a lot from their spouse when they get a back rub at night and the sex is good and often. The same works with wages at work. Give a little more and you will get a little more.