Have you heard of the Orion System, what do you know?

[Catatonic]

The article said they have spent 1 billion a year on technology since 2003.
The wording sounded to me like all this technology has been used to collect data over the years for Orion's implementation.
I know we spend tons on technology that maybe isn't directly related to Orion.
I also know try could care less about saving the 50 million a year.
It's all about making the drivers job so that anyone can step in and do it.

It was more than $1 Billion per year prior to 2003.
The bubble-headed bleach blonde did say "data".
I was just going by what you posted - "Cheryl just posted a link ups is spending a billion dollars a year to implement Orion."
OK
​That is probably correct.

 

[MethodsMan]

It was more than $1 Billion per year prior to 2003.
The bubble-headed bleach blonde did say "data".
I was just going by what you posted - "Cheryl just posted a link ups is spending a billion dollars a year to implement Orion."
OK
​That is probably correct.

Yikes!

What happens if it fails miserably?

 

[jaker]

Yikes!

What happens if it fails miserably?

Nothing they will just stop doing it and act like it never happen , but it will take a Long time for this to happen the way they are pushing Orion

 

[Catatonic]

Yikes!

What happens if it fails miserably?

Nothing they will just stop doing it and act like it never happen , but it will take a Long time for this to happen the way they are pushing Orion

Things rarely fail at UPS.
UPSers make things sucessful with hard work and changes and course corrections and, if needed ...
Goals will be changed, spin will take place and it will be successful regardless of implementation results.

 

[oldngray]

Orion can't fail. With the investment UPS spent on it there is no possibility of them ever admitting it is a failure. Regardless of how effective it really is.

 

[brownIEman]

The article said they have spent 1 billion a year on technology since 2003. The wording sounded to me like all this technology has been used to collect data over the years for Orion's implementation. I know we spend tons on technology that maybe isn't directly related to Orion. I also know they could care less about saving the 50 million a year. It's all about making the drivers job so that anyone can step in and do it.

gotta love the conspiracy theories.

If you are correct, then the people who designed and implemented ORION are true morons. In terms of making the job simpler so anyone could step in and do it, ORION is a big step BACKWARDS. ORION ignores the orderly trace of the the DOL (assuming you are lucky enough to have an orderly DOL) and picks close geographic pockets - it makes the job MORE complex if you do not have a solid grasp of the area and it requires even more judgement on the part of the driver as to when to follow and when it is better in an ever evolving day to day situation not to.

 

[soberups]

Yikes!

What happens if it fails miserably?

If it doesnt work they will just pretend that it works and keep using it anyway. At UPS, we dont fix dumb mistakes we double down on them.

 

[brownIEman]

If it doesnt work they will just pretend that it works and keep using it anyway. At UPS, we dont fix dumb mistakes we double down on them.

There is truth in this. Years ago there were many who shook their heads at the way UPS continued to double down on the European operation that continued to lose millions and millions every single year...

 

[soberups]

gotta love the conspiracy theories.

If you are correct, then the people who designed and implemented ORION are true morons. In terms of making the job simpler so anyone could step in and do it, ORION is a big step BACKWARDS. ORION ignores the orderly trace of the the DOL (assuming you are lucky enough to have an orderly DOL) and picks close geographic pockets - it makes the job MORE complex if you do not have a solid grasp of the area and it requires even more judgement on the part of the driver as to when to follow and when it is better in an ever evolving day to day situation not to.

Your post is a perfect example of the absolute disconnect that exists beween the IE theory and the operational reality.

Everything you said makes perfect sense, especially the last sentence. Problem is, when we get out of the cubicle and go forth into a real-world operational center, the only thing that really matters is generating an 85% compliance metric for the daily report. You are talking about common sense. You are talking about logic. You are talking about making intelligent business decisons. But to the 24 year old on-car sup with 8 weeks of driving experience who just got his anal cavity shredded by the DM over the failure of "his" people to look good on the report, none of those things matter. As a low level UPS management person, you live or die based upon the numbers on yesterdays report and since things like common sense and logic dont quantify well on a WOR there is no place for them in the daily operation of the business.

 

[brownIEman]

Your post is a perfect example of the absolute disconnect that exists beween the IE theory and the operational reality.

Everything you said makes perfect sense, especially the last sentence. Problem is, when we get out of the cubicle and go forth into a real-world operational center, the only thing that really matters is generating an 85% compliance metric for the daily report. You are talking about common sense. You are talking about logic. You are talking about making intelligent business decisons. But to the 24 year old on-car sup with 8 weeks of driving experience who just got his anal cavity shredded by the DM over the failure of "his" people to look good on the report, none of those things matter. As a low level UPS management person, you live or die based upon the numbers on yesterdays report and since things like common sense and logic dont quantify well on a WOR there is no place for them in the daily operation of the business.

This is a cop out. Yes, the 85% is measured. Yes, management who's operations fail to meet those and other numbers will get chewed out on conference calls. The 85% is not the only measurement, and is actually quite low on the point total for the ORION scorecard. UPS is in a tough business and is a tough company. Those in management who do illogical things in running their operation in order to try to make a single silly metric on one report to avoid a chewing out are deluding themselves. The chewing is coming no matter what your number is. At some point they need to pull up their grown up pants and do what is right for the business. And sometimes, what is right for the business DOES line up with ORION and its solution. You and many other drivers believe, and will never be swayed otherwise, that EVERYTHING management does it stupid and illogical, and you will rationalize and make up any fantasy scenario to support that belief, and you will fight your management on every little tiny thing about the job because of this belief. It does get tiresome, but it does not change your management teams responsibility.

 

[oldngray]

Management would be much more effective if they were allowed to .. manage. Instead of just being forced to follow the script sent to them from above whether it made sense or not.

 

[Catatonic]

Management would be much more effective if they were allowed to .. manage. Instead of just being forced to follow the script sent to them from above whether it made sense or not.

Management has always, in the past, present and future, been allowed to manage within a given set of parameters.

The ability of upper management to have insight as to the true compliance of a management person to manage within those parameters is what has changed more than anything else.

20 - 40 years ago, management managed very autonomously because there was almost no insight to their compliance.

​No disagreement with your assertion but perhaps a different perspective.

 

[soberups]

. Those in management who do illogical things in running their operation in order to try to make a single silly metric on one report to avoid a chewing out are deluding themselves.

No, they are protecting themselves from getting fired and setting themselves up for promotion.

 

[soberups]

. The chewing is coming no matter what your number is. At some point they need to pull up their grown up pants and do what is right for the business. .

Which is exactly my point. Its the same whether you are an hourly employee or a manager. Any action you take to keep your name from showing up on one report will automatically cause it to appear on a different one. Since they are going to chew my ass no matter what (YOUR words not mine), it bocomes pointless for me to give a about anything they have to say. The phenomenon is called "learned helplessness" and if you dont believe me, Google it. I see it in the workplace now on a constant basis; an employee who busts his ass and makes good decisions to finish a difficult route gets called in the next day and harassed over Orion compliance. So then he follows ORION and the next day he gets harassed over SPORH. He cant win. Too many of the metrics you guys are chasing are contradictory and mutually exclusive of one another, and the more technology you implement the worse this problem is going to become.

 

[Catatonic]

Which is exactly my point. Its the same whether you are an hourly employee or a manager. Any action you take to keep your name from showing up on one report will automatically cause it to appear on a different one. Since you are going to chew my ass no matter what (YOUR words not mine), it is pointless for me to give a about anything you have to say.

Then why don't you practice that then?

It's obvious you care because you rant and rave about it all the time.

May you find your place of oblivion. Ommmm, ommmm, ommmm

 

[brownIEman]

Which is exactly my point. Its the same whether you are an hourly employee or a manager. Any action you take to keep your name from showing up on one report will automatically cause it to appear on a different one. Since they are going to chew my ass no matter what (YOUR words not mine), it bocomes pointless for me to give a about anything they have to say. The phenomenon is called "learned helplessness" and if you dont believe me, Google it. I see it in the workplace now on a constant basis; an employee who busts his ass and makes good decisions to finish a difficult route gets called in the next day and harassed over Orion compliance. So then he follows ORION and the next day he gets harassed over SPORH. He cant win. Too many of the metrics you guys are chasing are contradictory and mutually exclusive of one another, and the more technology you implement the worse this problem is going to become.

"learned helplessness" is just a euphemism for cop out. Yes, the ass chewing is coming no matter what. If you take that to mean stop caring, you are copping out. I learned it is very liberating. Since I am going to get the ass chewing no matter what, I am free to do whatever I chose. I chose to do what is best for the customer and my employees, as that invariably winds up being what is best for the company. This simple principle remains no matter how much or what kinds of technology get implemented.

 

[soberups]

"learned helplessness" is just a euphemism for cop out. Yes, the ass chewing is coming no matter what. If you take that to mean stop caring, you are copping out. I learned it is very liberating. Since I am going to get the ass chewing no matter what, I am free to do whatever I chose. I chose to do what is best for the customer and my employees, as that invariably winds up being what is best for the company. This simple principle remains no matter how much or what kinds of technology get implemented.

Best post of the year on Brown Cafe. Somebody ought to engrave this on a plaque and hang it on Scott Davis's wall.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Best post of the year on Brown Cafe. Somebody ought to engrave this on a plaque and hang it on Scott Davis's wall.

Perhaps I misread this but I don't think brownIEman was agreeing with you but was rather pointing out your flawed logic.

 

[soberups]

Perhaps I misread this but I don't think brownIEman was agreeing with you but was rather pointing out your flawed logic.

You did misread it.

BrownIEman and I are in complete agreement about the need to focus on doing the right thing for the customer and the company while ignoring the harassment and the endless reports and the meaningless metrics that we are constantly forced to chase.

 

[Catatonic]

Perhaps I misread this but I don't think brownIEman was agreeing with you but was rather pointing out your flawed logic.

You did misread it.

BrownIEman and I are in complete agreement about the need to focus on doing the right thing for the customer and the company while ignoring the harassment and the endless reports and the meaningless metrics that we are constantly forced to chase.

It is a bit confusing because one looks at UPS in a positive way and speaks about how to get the job done while the other hates UPS and lashes out all the time.