Is UPS really this bad to work for, or are people exaggerating??

[moreluck]

thank you, Rodney!

 

[tieguy]

I have the ability to scroll up, I know what you said and how it was said.

So you claim yet you completely misrepresented my point.

As I stated in my original post, I acknowledged drivers were equally capable of wrongdoings.

you threw me a bone. boy do I feel better. I would have asked the same question if you had made a long post about all the drivers you have seen get fired. Same question why are you doing this?

The twisting started when you hit the quote key. The fact you see my post as an attack on management is key here. It's not. Listing the management which have been fired for various reasons in a thread asking about the working conditions is not an attack. They each had a direct impact on the working conditions at my building. But again, rather than address the issues, you'd rather try to discredit my post by saying "oh yeah, what about the drivers?"

Maybe you are this stupid. I did not say what about the drivers I said why did you post this about management. You could have done the same thing about drivers, package handlers , mechanics , judges and lawyers. So why did you feel the need to make a long list of management people?

Next question you keep trying to twist this into a why I don't address the issue question. What would I possibly address. i don't know any of the people you alluded to. I don't know if your information is accurate or anything about it. How do I address something I have no way of knowing anything about. For all I know you made up the whole post.

I answered that Tieguy, I don't work for the drivers. Now why don't you take a moment and address what working conditions must be like to work for a list like I posted? Maybe you might actually be ontopic. Agreed, they were fired and the system worked. Now what do you think work is like until they are fired?

I think its a job. I think if you come in and do the best job you can then it does not matter who you work for.

I'm starting to get the impression you don't like me. Maybe if you tried responding to the issue rather than relying on insulting and sidestepping we could find middle ground. I'd never make it in management

You're right I don't like you. You deliberately misrepresented my words. That makes you a liar. I don't like liars. There is no middle ground on your dishonesty.

 

[canon]

So why did you feel the need to make a long list of management people?

Next question you keep trying to twist this into a why I don't address the issue question. What would I possibly address.

Pick an issue. Any issue. Apply as much interest in addressing the issues as you do defending management who have been fired.

I think its a job. I think if you come in and do the best job you can then it does not matter who you work for.

That's one of the issues. No matter how hard you work, you're still not doing good enough.

You're right I don't like you. You deliberately misrepresented my words. That makes you a liar. I don't like liars. There is no middle ground on your dishonesty.

You've see post after post where other drivers have agreed with my assessments of how management treats drivers, runners or slackers. They're all wrong? I didn't misrepresent anything and have from day one maintained I only want PAS fixed so I might actually be able to do a good job in the eyes of the people who say i'm not. I'm not a liar. But you're quite effective in avoiding having to answer anything that might not be "wow, ups is the greatest".

Dishonesty comes in many forms.

Going to Cheesecake Factory now... have fun.

 

[tieguy]

Pick an issue. Any issue. Apply as much interest in addressing the issues as you do defending management who have been fired.

Again you twist my words.

That's one of the issues. No matter how hard you work, you're still not doing good enough.

Yep rare condition ,known only to UPSers.

You've see post after post where other drivers have agreed with my assessments of how management treats drivers, runners or slackers.
Dishonesty comes in many forms.

I'm sorry I must have missed it. Could you show me where one driver agreed that you should twist my words to make it look like I said something I never said? You keep trying to defend yourself by running off into other topics.

 

[canon]

You've see post after post where other drivers have agreed with my assessments of how management treats drivers, runners or slackers.
Dishonesty comes in many forms.

I'm sorry I must have missed it. Could you show me where one driver agreed that you should twist my words to make it look like I said something I never said? You keep trying to defend yourself by running off into other topics.

I never said they agreed I should twist your words. I said they agreed with my assessments. (In red. Or scroll up.) Again, you dodge the issue. You really aren't fooling anyone. The drivers already know what it's like to work in their own center, despite your best efforts to paint them as dishonest. It's better for some sure, that reflects the centers that have had better management. It never even started out as an US vs THEM discussion until you chimed in bent on defending the very management UPS saw fit to fire.

That makes you an apologist for the company in the face of already having admitted you understand the value UPS places on driver/customer interaction. But in your little world of being the yesman to the next higher tie, resorting to insults is much easier than actually facing the problems and having to address them. Even if you think someone IS doing nothing more than complaining, isn't it a function of management to stay above that and behave like a professional?

Once again, you dodge the question. All the drivers who echo the same problems in their centers as I've outlined in these threads... are they just whining too? Are they stupid like you said I was? The posts have been read, don't try to backpeddle now. Everyone is wrong... except the people who don't have to do the work? Address the issues, be the professional you pretend to be on here. That really is a clip on tie isn't it? Some sups earn the respect of the drivers to wear that tie... you just clip yours on. Instant superiority mentality. How typical.

Address the issues and stop with the insults.

 

[Channahon]

My oh my - quite the bantering between Canon and Tie Guy. The company has high standards for integrity - both hourly and management. Unfortunately, those who make poor decisions in their day to day jobs, that are integrity based pay the consequences. Mutual respect between hourly and management is the key.
Maybe UPS can get Lovie Smith and Tony Dungy on the Board of Directors. Both class acts and both going to the Superbowl with great teams. They and their players have mutual respect and work together as a team. ( What a concept)What greater reward than winning the Super Bowl. It's a shame both coaches couldn't share the title.
GO BEARS.

 

[tieguy]

I never said they agreed I should twist your words. I said they agreed with my assessments.

heres the point you keep missing. I am not disagreeing with your assessments. In fact I'm not letting you distract me no matter how hard you try. I made the point of stating you misrpresented my words. In that time I have not addressed any other point but that despite your attemtp to draw me elsewhere. You deliberately took my words twisted them and accused me of calling all drivers thieves and perverts. That was a serious twisting of the truth that I can not let go because its a blatant lie. Until you acknowledge and apologize I will not go off on any other tangent you try to take me too. Until you acknowledge you are no better then the dishonest management folks you mocked earlier.


(In red. Or scroll up.) Again, you dodge the issue. You really aren't fooling anyone. The drivers already know what it's like to work in their own center, despite your best efforts to paint them as dishonest. It's better for some sure, that reflects the centers that have had better management. It never even started out as an US vs THEM discussion until you chimed in bent on defending the very management UPS saw fit to fire.

Here again you try to twist my words. Is there no end to your blatant dishonesty.

That makes you an apologist for the company in the face of already having admitted you understand the value UPS places on driver/customer interaction. But in your little world of being the yesman to the next higher tie, resorting to insults is much easier than actually facing the problems and having to address them. Even if you think someone IS doing nothing more than complaining, isn't it a function of management to stay above that and behave like a professional?

And here again you blatantly misrepresent again. I'm convinced the dishonesty that took place in your building was not exclusive to management since you clearly are as bad.

Once again, you dodge the question. All the drivers who echo the same problems in their centers as I've outlined in these threads... are they just whining too? Are they stupid like you said I was? The posts have been read, don't try to backpeddle now. Everyone is wrong... except the people who don't have to do the work? Address the issues, be the professional you pretend to be on here. That really is a clip on tie isn't it? Some sups earn the respect of the drivers to wear that tie... you just clip yours on. Instant superiority mentality. How typical.

More of your lying and squirming. I never said anything about everyone else being wrong. You keep making this up as you go along. No other response required other than to highlight your blatant integrity problem.

 

[tieguy]

My oh my - quite the bantering between Canon and Tie Guy. The company has high standards for integrity - both hourly and management. Unfortunately, those who make poor decisions in their day to day jobs, that are integrity based pay the consequences. Mutual respect between hourly and management is the key.
Maybe UPS can get Lovie Smith and Tony

I agree chan which is why I feel I have to challenge Cujo's blatant attempts to put words in my mouth.

 

[diadlover]

Damn, I've never seen anyone leave Tieguy speechless like canon has. If it's ever been okay to love another man, I feel like this is the time.

 

[canon]

Damn, I've never seen anyone leave Tieguy speechless like canon has. If it's ever been okay to love another man, I feel like this is the time.

rofl

It's just friendly banter. We all know he's too professional to let something like internet debate divert him from his corporate deportment. That's why he gets the clip on tie.

 

[tieguy]

rofl

It's just friendly banter. We all know he's too professional to let something like internet debate divert him from his corporate deportment. That's why he gets the clip on tie.

it was an interesting exercise. In the process your despicably dishonest behavior proved you were no better then the rogues of management you listed as fired.

Your behavior also proved that any abuse you claimed to have suffered at the hands of management was in fact well deserved by you.

Having diadlover and trickpony try to help save you just enhances those points.

 

[canon]

More of your lying and squirming. I never said anything about everyone else being wrong. You keep making this up as you go along. No other response required other than to highlight your blatant integrity problem.

I know you didn't. You said I was wrong... and a liar and stupid. The problem is that there are drivers who know everything I was saying is accurate for their center too. So the question remains... if I'm wrong, and lying and stupid... is everyone else as well? Don't dodge it, answer like a real supervisor.

No other response is required? How convenient to get you out of actually having to address a real issue. Google the definition for transparent.

Until you acknowledge you are no better then the dishonest management folks you mocked earlier.

Mocked? I've met good management people. The ones I listed barely deserve the bandwidth it takes to tell about them. And your defense of them really shines a light on your character. Especially if you think it's fine and dandy that the drivers just have to quietly suffer thru them while UPS sorts things out without so much as a miniscule gripe.

You deliberately took my words twisted them and accused me of calling all drivers thieves and perverts.

And you deliberately took my words and tried to say I was elevating the drivers above such behavior, when I intentionally tried to maintain neutrality by noting drivers were capable of such behavior too in the original post:

I'm not saying there aren't drivers equally guilty of the exact same things

But rather than addressing the points of that post such as the impossible expecations, poor looping, and failures inherent to PAS, you picked the route of trying to silence me with insults and twisted logic.


Heck, I was even standing up for management in that post:

And as much pressure as there is on us to work faster, the threat of not being promoted or even being terminated is strong enough for some mgmt to risk falsifying records. Either face discipline for not meeting the impossible numbers, or face discipline for trying to fake the impossible numbers. Which one would get you?

I've not twisted your words. I've not lied. I've not sunk to namecalling. I've tried to stand on neutral ground when dealing with union/company issues. Every complaint I've raised here and at work has been in an effort to become a more efficient employee. The vast majority of drivers only want management to appreciate their efforts... but it's impossible when the numbers reduce those efforts to nothing more than saying we're all stealing company time by not working harder. For this, i'm called a stupid liar.

I can't wait for the Brown Cafe ERI. Who wanted to know what it's like working for UPS? This is classic bottom of the barrel management arrogance. Bring up a concern with management and you're rewarded with accusations of laziness and intentionally dragging your feet. No, not all sups are like this... but the ones that do show up at my center like that tend not to get promoted. They just sit there until they retire or leave for disciplinary reasons in an attempt to falsify the numbers enough to earn a promotion. Great work atmosphere eh? It's not an attack to talk about them in a thread dealing with what it's like to work for UPS.

And i'm sure this is all just a misunderstanding between tieguy and myself. We disagree, that's cool. But him not liking me and resorting to insults doesn't reflect poorly on me.

Anything else is simply redundant. Tieguy, you fought to say I was a liar and stupid; I fought to try to get you to understand I wasn't making an attack on management as a whole. You fought to redeem your image when accused of talking bad about drivers; I fought to get you to understand the post was about fixing the problems at UPS so everyone benefits (drivers and management). The fight is SO classic management... it's all about you. Who cares what else happens, so long as you look good on paper (or monitor in this case).

I'll give you last word, i'm sure you have more insults lined up for me. And I'll keep trying to remember why i'm not supposed to have a bad attitude towards my fearless leaders.

 

[diadlover]

Damn, I've never seen anyone leave Tieguy speechless like canon has. If it's ever been okay to love another man, I feel like this is the time.

Having diadlover and trickpony try to help save you just enhances those points.

It seems my support for canon did not sit well with tieguy. He left me a negative rep like a crybaby. Don't worry, I have a video dedication for you too.

please watch this, tieguy. It's from the heart.

 

[tieguy]

I know you didn't. You said I was wrong... and a liar and stupid. The problem is that there are drivers who know everything I was saying is accurate for their center too. So the question remains... if I'm wrong, and lying and stupid... is everyone else as well? Don't dodge it, answer like a real supervisor.

here you go again. Trying to squirm out of a situation where you blatantly lied about me. No other driver has come out in support of you lying about what I said. Therefore stop trying to make that point.



Mocked? I've met good management people. The ones I listed barely deserve the bandwidth it takes to tell about them. And your defense of them really shines a light on your character.

Another post where you again lie about what I said.


Especially if you think it's fine and dandy that the drivers just have to quietly suffer thru them while UPS sorts things out without so much as a miniscule gripe.

So here I am supposed to believe you are telling me that you can't do your job on Monday through friday because your boss was a perv on the weekends? Give the I have an excuse and its everyone else routine a rest. Your a slug and you don't need anyone else help being one.

And you deliberately took my words and tried to say I was elevating the drivers above such behavior, when I intentionally tried to maintain neutrality by noting drivers were capable of such behavior too in the original post:

Actually conceeded the point and said everything would be fine if you had left it there.

But rather than addressing the points of that post such as the impossible expecations, poor looping, and failures inherent to PAS, you picked the route of trying to silence me with insults and twisted logic.

Yes Instead of chasing other issues and ignoring your blatant dishonesty Is what you meant to say.


Heck, I was even standing up for management in that post:

Nope I'm sure your the guy that lurks behind managment.

I've not twisted your words. I've not lied. I've not sunk to namecalling. I've tried to stand on neutral ground when dealing with union/company issues.

LOL thats rich

Every complaint I've raised here and at work has been in an effort to become a more efficient employee.

your nose is growing

The vast majority of drivers only want management to appreciate their efforts... but it's impossible when the numbers reduce those efforts to nothing more than saying we're all stealing company time by not working harder. For this, i'm called a stupid liar.

Your crying and whining about being caught in a lie.

And i'm sure this is all just a misunderstanding between tieguy and myself. We disagree, that's cool. But him not liking me and resorting to insults doesn't reflect poorly on me.

YOu deliberately twisted my words. it was dishonest.

Anything else is simply redundant. Tieguy, you fought to say I was a liar and stupid; I fought to try to get you to understand I wasn't making an attack on management as a whole. You fought to redeem your image when accused of talking bad about drivers; I fought to get you to understand the post was about fixing the problems at UPS so everyone benefits (drivers and management). The fight is SO classic management... it's all about you. Who cares what else happens, so long as you look good on paper (or monitor in this case).

Something wrong with your analogy there is no paper here for me to look good on. It now comes down to two men. Mano a mano. You lied and I am holding you accountable for your lie. For some reason you think its ok to cry about a managment person being dishonest but yet you think its ok for you to do the same.

I'll give you last word, i'm sure you have more insults lined up for me. And I'll keep trying to remember why i'm not supposed to have a bad attitude towards my fearless leaders.

I think you start by not blaiming others for your own faults.

 

[tieguy]

It seems my support for canon did not sit well with tieguy. He left me a negative rep like a crybaby. Don't worry, I have a video dedication for you too.


Gee it must be time for Diad to run another election campaign.

 

[hoser]

UPS DOES NOT ALLOW YOU TO BRING CELL PHONES INTO THE BUILDINGS...

I bring mine into the hub every night. Some of my co-workers even answer them while on the sort.

 

[canon]

In continuation of discussing workplace issues, I found a denver site that seems to echo almost exatcly the frustrations drivers have raised in these forums. While he has a whole page dealing with PAS issues, I haven't read them all. It's amazing how many people say the exact same thing, yet UPS doesn't seem to want to fix any of the issues the drivers face everyday.

A Good Idea Gone Bad

Bob Newhouse

PAS has been touted as the greatest thing since brown paint to hit UPS. It is supposed to streamline the pre-load and delivery functions on a daily basis, to the point that production expectations can be markedly increased, and service goals can be exceeded, and sold to the shipping public.

So what the hell has happened? Missed pieces, and “not founds”, are rampant. Perfect service day brings a chuckle of laughter at the AM meetings. Supposedly PAS makes the pre-load easier, so why is the turnover so high amongst part timers?

As usual the company is taking a good system and pushing it beyond its useful limits. In the company’s zeal to reduce the number of people it takes to do the job, people are just finding the job impossible to do. Well really it’s not the job, it’s dealing with management expectations.

With the implementation of PAS I have been through 5 pre-loaders in 2 years. As I’ve said a number of times in the past, the company simply doesn’t want to do the hard work to make this system work. Delivery order listings just don’t make sense. Splits from one driver to another are arbitrary, and subject to the whim of the dispatch supervisor. Pre-loaders cannot maintain load quality and be accurate at the same time.

My observation is that pre-load sups. are simply to busy doing the work of the pre-loaders to adequately train the loaders properly. Very often we find that it is the day the sup. loads your car that the worst loads happen. For them it’s all about getting the stuff in the cars. Not accuracy. It’s been an interesting journey from implementation to now.

The highly touted system is simply failing to live up to expected standards mostly because of poor management. Who would’ve thought!

Why won't UPS take the necessaary steps to fix PAS? The drivers might actually be able to meet the expectations, management will look better on paper, and UPS will see more profits via efficiency.

 

[trickpony1]

I've heard it said that PAS will never be fixed because if everything ran as intended there would be less supervisors needed. The supervisors don't want it fixed.
I think the whole idea of the "center of the future" project is to eliminate some of the unnecessary management.

 

[DS]

I totally agree conan ,its like the dudes making the decisions see the projected numbers and forget about the one thing in life that always gets in the way...THE TRUTH...and they
gayfully prance through thier career never actually knowing that truth I speak of...Eskew made almost 400 million last year and thats before he got the bonus run.I truly believe that if good ole` Jim Casey was still in charge,ups would be
a better place to work.Maybe the next CEO we get will be able to see that production, although important,should always take a back seat to service.

 

[westsideworma]

I bring mine into the hub every night. Some of my co-workers even answer them while on the sort.

yea same here as well