Israeli Invasion

[wkmac]

There is always a reality behind the political rhetoric of all sides.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/iranjews.html

http://www.sephardicstudies.org/iran.html

http://www.haruth.com/JewsIran.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5367892.stm

http://www.jewishjournal.com/iranianamericanjews/item/jewish_member_of_iranian_parliament_condemns_israel/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morris_Motamed


I wonder if jews would see such a thing from our "Arab" (sons of Ismael)allies in their nations that we support militarily as well a monetarily?

In the hebrew, the word messiah is Moshiach ( מֹשִׁיַּח ) and means "anointed one". Same word is used referring to Jesus Christ and in the greek Christ comes from Khristós also meaning "the anointed". Word refers both to priest as well as King equally. In regards to Persia which we now call Iran, is it not odd that in Isiah 45, http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/isaiah/isaiah45.htm the ancient Persian King Cyrus the Great is called by the hebrew, a messiah or if we used the greek, a Khristos!

It's a damn shame that European colonialism and American Empire have almost all but destoyed that great historical realtionship and bond that once made both peoples a beacon of hope. Did you also ever once ask why the sons of Ismael hate the Persians so much?



Was Cyrus of Persia, the jewish "messiah" many old testament prophecies proclaimed would come and restore Israel back into her land just as Cyrus did?

 

[wkmac]

All civilians living in Gaza are collectively guilty for Kassam attacks on Sderot, former Sephardi chief rabbi Mordechai Eliyahu has written in a letter to Prime Minister Ehud Olmert.

Eliyahu ruled that there was absolutely no moral prohibition against the indiscriminate killing of civilians during a potential massive military offensive on Gaza aimed at stopping the rocket launchings.

https://web.archive.org/web/2009070...80527966693&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull

 

[spuman]

Was Cyrus of Persia, the jewish "messiah" many old testament prophecies proclaimed would come and restore Israel back into her land just as Cyrus did?



Through Isaiah,God named Cyrus as the king who would free his people
to return from captivity.I'm not sure that makes him the messiah.

God was able to take a pagan king like Cyrus and use him for his purpose.
Why then can't he use sinful human nature to have His will be done?
Of course to non-believers this means nothing.

 

[av8torntn]

https://web.archive.org/web/2009070...80527966693&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull

Eliyahu wrote that "This is a message to all leaders of the Jewish people not to be compassionate with those who shoot [rockets] at civilians in their houses."

This guy gets it. To bad he is in the minority. If more in Israel felt this way I think you would quickly see an end to the violence and wars of aggression by the Muslims.

 

[DownsizedUPS'er]

Eliyahu wrote that "This is a message to all leaders of the Jewish people not to be compassionate with those who shoot [rockets] at civilians in their houses."

This guy gets it. To bad he is in the minority. If more in Israel felt this way I think you would quickly see an end to the violence and wars of aggression by the Muslims.

great point

 

[soberups]

Its been reported that the USA has declined Israel permission to fly over Iraq so that they could hit Iran.
I hope they do it anyway.

If they believe that Iran is close to having a functional nuke, they WILL do it anyway. The Israeli's know damn good and well that we would never shoot their planes down.

An even scarier scenario...is the one in which Israel announces to us that they have proof of an Iranian nuke and that they will use their own nuclear weapons to destroy it unless we assist them. That puts us right between one hell of a rock and a hard place.

Israel does not have the capability to destroy Irans nuclear facilities without resorting to using their own nuclear weapons first. The Israelis refuse to confirm or deny whether or not they even have nukes, but the reality is that they have something like 120 warheads. They have the ability (and the willingness) to turn Iran into a radioactive puddle.

 

[drewed]

I think they have more then the capability to destroy the facilities theyve done it before in the 80s (i believe) and put the programme back twenty years, theyd have the airspace over Iraq to get there and in most cases our tech are shared so when it comes to radar blocking they wouldnt have an issue

 

[av8torntn]

I think they have more then the capability to destroy the facilities theyve done it before in the 80s (i believe) and put the programme back twenty years, theyd have the airspace over Iraq to get there and in most cases our tech are shared so when it comes to radar blocking they wouldnt have an issue

I read somewhere that this may be a completely different situation. They were saying these facilities were underground and you needed more advanced weapons to get to it.

 

[drewed]

Id imagine that if we didnt give them the weapons, the tech is more then likely shared and it wouldnt be hard for Israel to come out with a prototype in a month or two and rollout of a weapons system in 3

 

[soberups]

I think they have more then the capability to destroy the facilities theyve done it before in the 80s (i believe) and put the programme back twenty years, theyd have the airspace over Iraq to get there and in most cases our tech are shared so when it comes to radar blocking they wouldnt have an issue

They destroyed the Osirak reactor in Iraq in 1982, but that was a sneak attack against one relatively undefended target. Even so, the attack took place at the extreme range of Israel's friend-16's which were grossly overweight at takeoff due to having to carry extra fuel tanks as well as bombs. They barely got off the ground, and there were real concerns that the aircraft would be damaged or even destroyed when they tried to jettison the jury-rigged fuel tanks in mid-flight.

Irans's facilities are underground as well as being widely dispersed. Furthermore, they are well out of range of Israeli strike aircraft. Israel has only a limited air-to-air refueling capability, they do not posess any stealth aircraft, and they do not have any "bunker-buster" munitions that can gurantee success against hardened underground targets. And without US permission to overfly Iraq, any air-to-air refueling they did attempt would have to take place over hostile airspace.

If Israel has to do it on their own, they will be leaving some mushroom clouds behind, and either landing at US-controlled airbases in Iraq or simply bailing out of their aircraft as they run out of fuel over the Iraqi desert. Either way we will get dragged into it.

 

[av8torntn]

Id imagine that if we didnt give them the weapons, the tech is more then likely shared and it wouldnt be hard for Israel to come out with a prototype in a month or two and rollout of a weapons system in 3

Wow how did you come up with that.

 

[drewed]

is that a serious inquiry?

 

[av8torntn]

is that a serious inquiry?

If that was directed at me normally I would say no but in this case I will say yes. You at least acknowledge that we do not give them weapons but then you claim that we share technology with Israel and what we do not share they could just develop it on their own in one months time. I suppose you just want to ignore that we caught a spy for Israel so I will not even ask why would they spy and risk this secret alliance you claim they have when we will just give them the information they were seeking to gain by spying in the first place. I am also guessing you figured out by now that congress has to approve the sale of weapons which they did not when Israel sought cluster munitions which is a much older technology than what would be needed to carry out the mission of the destruction of the Iranian nuclear capability. I was simply curious how you came up with the theories that you did. It would be very impressive for a nation about the size of New Jersey to develop some of these weapons systems in one month. Seriously if what you say is true we should just start buying all our weapons from Israel. Just imagine how advanced our military could be with only one months development time for new weapons systems.

 

[JimJimmyJames]

Not all Jews agree with Israel's Gaza action:

http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,,24907440-27197,00.html

 

[wkmac]

Not all Jews agree with Israel's Gaza action:

http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,,24907440-27197,00.html

Very True Jim. Just today from the Israeli press it seems now even IDF officials are voicing suggestings of a truce in this whole Gaza ordeal. http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1055476.html Just purely from a PR standpoint, it's a smart move because more and more Israel is appearing, right or wrong, as the aggressor and that's not good for them.

Jewish voices are beginning to speak out more and more that challenge the revisionist zionism of the Likud party. One such growing voice in America is J Street who is out to challenge the unquestioned dominance of AIPAC.
http://www.jstreet.org/

I'm going to assume you saw the story you linked over at Antiwar as that's where I saw it. Did you read Justin's piece on Richard Perle? http://antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=14060
Very good and it is comical to watch these guys now as they distance themselves from the very mess they themselves created.

Have a good one!

 

[drewed]

If that was directed at me normally I would say no but in this case I will say yes. You at least acknowledge that we do not give them weapons but then you claim that we share technology with Israel and what we do not share they could just develop it on their own in one months time. I suppose you just want to ignore that we caught a spy for Israel so I will not even ask why would they spy and risk this secret alliance you claim they have when we will just give them the information they were seeking to gain by spying in the first place. I am also guessing you figured out by now that congress has to approve the sale of weapons which they did not when Israel sought cluster munitions which is a much older technology than what would be needed to carry out the mission of the destruction of the Iranian nuclear capability. I was simply curious how you came up with the theories that you did. It would be very impressive for a nation about the size of New Jersey to develop some of these weapons systems in one month. Seriously if what you say is true we should just start buying all our weapons from Israel. Just imagine how advanced our military could be with only one months development .time for new weapons systems.

In this case, I think we could use them as proxy for the attacks give them the weapons and theyd what they will.

We've sold weapons to them for years, a lot of them are an earlier generation tech then what we use but even a generation behind its still ahead of what most nations have and they could reverse engineer and make improvements of their own. They have a pretty robust R&D program and a lot of very smart engineers that in my opinion could come up with a viable weapons system to do this. Bunker buster type bombs have been around since WW2, since then and also the cluster bomb example Israel has grown in leaps and bounds in war tech enough to rival and if not some cases are superior to our own.

 

[JimJimmyJames]

I'm going to assume you saw the story you linked over at Antiwar as that's where I saw it. Did you read Justin's piece on Richard Perle? http://antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=14060
Very good and it is comical to watch these guys now as they distance themselves from the very mess they themselves created.

Have a good one!

I just read it, good piece. I had to laugh at loud at Justin's critique of Perle's analogy:

Perle's fire insurance analogy would make sense if, in order to ensure that your house isn't gutted by a nearby arsonist, you proceeded to preemptively torch your neighbors' homes.

Perle reminds me of Alfred's assessment of the Joker's motives in the latest Batman flick, to paraphrase: "Some people just want to watch the world burn". So true and so sad.

 

[soberups]

We've sold weapons to them for years, a lot of them are an earlier generation tech then what we use but even a generation behind its still ahead of what most nations have and they could reverse engineer and make improvements of their own.

That still does not solve the underlying problem, which is that the Iranian nuclear facilities are well beyond the range of the Israeli friend-15's and friend-16's that would be carrying the weapons. The Israelis will have to conduct midair refueling over hostile territory, or else get us to allow their planes to land at US-controlled airfields in Iraq.

 

[drewed]

Or a missile? 1000-1500 mile range I dont think would be beyond their capabilties

 

[av8torntn]

Or a missile? 1000-1500 mile range I dont think would be beyond their capabilties

I see you are very creative so riddle me this what missile would penetrate the target?