Local 2727 UPDATE

[brownIEman]

Sounds like your reading from a script! UPS IS STOP PROOF! The "Partnership" died along with the "Policy Book" and all the traditions that made UPS a great company when UPS decided to chase the dollar and become a publicly traded company. Now we are slaves to Wall street. Get out of your cubical and talk to real UPSer's, Union and Non-Union and you'll find that this is a very unhappy place. Ultimatly sevice and customers will pay the price and we will fade into the history books. I am glad that you recognize that UPS is not negotiating in good faith and destroying the lives of many good people and their families. What a great company!

BTW- I don't hate UPS...I hate what they have become.

You are missing the cause and effect that so many miss about what happened 10 years ago. UPS did not change because it went public. The change and going public were both symptoms of the same thing. There has been a sea change in the market UPS is in. UPS finally, after decades and decades of growth reached near market saturation in the domestic US small package market. When a company is constantly expanding into new territories and serving new customers, growth comes almost automatically. And when growth is near automatic, production concerns and costs to serve are masked. This was UPS life up until about 20 years ago. But what happens when you are serving all the customers? What happens when you finally get serious competition from lower cost players entering the market? These are huge changes in the life of a company, and the execs at UPS saw the writing on the wall years ago. Through the 90's we experienced great growth as the internet revolution made changes in retail and the just in time business models combined to explode the US small package market. Even in those times, UPS recognized that while our total volume was going up, it was because the UPS small package pie was ballooning. Our piece of that pie as a percentage, our market share, was shrinking. They saw that a decade or two in the future, when the changes stabilized, so would the market and our volume would shrink if we could not stop and reverse the loss of our market share. So they took steps to control the growth of costs to make ourselves more competitive. In 97 they took these cost concerns to the IBT, and in return the IBT tried to destroy the company.

So, if you can't control costs any further, how can we continue growth? Well, maybe other markets to expand into, other revenue sources. So UPS did so aggressively. But to do that, you need capital, and lots of it. Two general options, borrow a ton, which puts you in a dangerous position by taking on huge long term debt you have to service (creating yet more costs) or, sell stock, go public.

Everyone seems to like to look at going public as the moment the party died at UPS and things change. I am telling, IMO, going public was just another symptom in the changes in the market that had already shut the party down.


and btw, I would respectfully ask that you not quote the whole we are unstoppable thing to me. No offense to any internal PR folks reading this from corp, but that slogan is just, well really, really gay.

 

[brownIEman]

sorry, meant to say stop proof.

see, I hate that damn slogan so much I was subconsciously unable to even type it...

 

[Dis-organized Labor]

What a great American! This is a prime example of whats wrong with this Nation! Just remember this Nation was built on the backs of hard working Americans who only wanted better lives for their families. Your a discrace to this Nation and UPS.

I am a great American. Decorated war vet.
I also can call it as it is.
BTW, brush up on your grammar and spelling.

 

[Dis-organized Labor]

And where does it state that it is illegal to be a Nazi?

I think I'll report you for being a sep sup. Anyone that doesn't know how to open a door on a 757 has no business supervising maintenance personel and should be reported to the FAA.

"We are all proud that through God's powerful aid, we have become once more true Germans"

- Adolf Hitler​

You're pathetic!
Where do you get the Hitler quotes, at the Union Hall?
I'll bet that you probably read them every morning for "inspiration"

 

[mrv]

You are missing the cause and effect that so many miss about what happened 10 years ago. UPS did not change because it went public. The change and going public were both symptoms of the same thing. There has been a sea change in the market UPS is in. UPS finally, after decades and decades of growth reached near market saturation in the domestic US small package market. When a company is constantly expanding into new territories and serving new customers, growth comes almost automatically. And when growth is near automatic, production concerns and costs to serve are masked. This was UPS life up until about 20 years ago. But what happens when you are serving all the customers? What happens when you finally get serious competition from lower cost players entering the market? These are huge changes in the life of a company, and the execs at UPS saw the writing on the wall years ago. Through the 90's we experienced great growth as the internet revolution made changes in retail and the just in time business models combined to explode the US small package market. Even in those times, UPS recognized that while our total volume was going up, it was because the UPS small package pie was ballooning. Our piece of that pie as a percentage, our market share, was shrinking. They saw that a decade or two in the future, when the changes stabilized, so would the market and our volume would shrink if we could not stop and reverse the loss of our market share. So they took steps to control the growth of costs to make ourselves more competitive. In 97 they took these cost concerns to the IBT, and in return the IBT tried to destroy the company.

So, if you can't control costs any further, how can we continue growth? Well, maybe other markets to expand into, other revenue sources. So UPS did so aggressively. But to do that, you need capital, and lots of it. Two general options, borrow a ton, which puts you in a dangerous position by taking on huge long term debt you have to service (creating yet more costs) or, sell stock, go public.

Everyone seems to like to look at going public as the moment the party died at UPS and things change. I am telling, IMO, going public was just another symptom in the changes in the market that had already shut the party down.


and btw, I would respectfully ask that you not quote the whole we are unstoppable thing to me. No offense to any internal PR folks reading this from corp, but that slogan is just, well really, really gay.

I appreciate your point of view, I fact I nearly bought it! You make a compelling arguement, but the snake oil your selling seems to be to slick for me to swallow. I believe UPS is playing hardball on our negotiations in order to send a message to the Teamsters in 2013. This company is changing and not for the better! It is no longer a place were people want to be, its a place people can't ecsape.

Looking foward to some meaningful dialogue(finally)! Maybe you can teach Dis-Organized labor some management skills or some manners! I don't think he's familiar with the Policy book. Guys like that really make UPS look bad and just give guys like me more fuel to burn.

BTW- I wish I had a Corporate lawyer to proof read my posts!

 

[brownIEman]

I appreciate your point of view, I fact I nearly bought it! You make a compelling arguement, but the snake oil your selling seems to be to slick for me to swallow. I believe UPS is playing hardball on our negotiations in order to send a message to the Teamsters in 2013. This company is changing and not for the better! It is no longer a place were people want to be, its a place people can't ecsape.

Looking foward to some meaningful dialogue(finally)! Maybe you can teach Dis-Organized labor some management skills or some manners! I don't think he's familiar with the Policy book. Guys like that really make UPS look bad and just give guys like me more fuel to burn.

BTW- I wish I had a Corporate lawyer to proof read my posts!

Not snake oil, just the facts on the ground as I have seen them over the past years.

Also, I agree with you to an extent UPS is playing hard ball in order to get the best contract it can for UPS, to then use that as a precedent with the Teamsters in 2013. Understand though, to me, UPS is not trying to do this out of greed. This is a matter of survival, not greed. Not survival for the next 3 years, or 5 years, but for the next 20, 50, 100 years. UPS cannot survive if it cannot compete, and it cannot compete if it's cost structure continues to go the way it currently is. And really, the true survivability of UPS will be decided by the Teamsters contract in 2013. That is where the lions share of costs lie.

Some of your brothers have sugested UPS should just give you what you want because you are a relatively small work group and the costs will be easy to absorb. However, you and I both know that UPS wants a concesion laden contract from you to use in negotiations with the Teamsters. Since you recognize that, surely you can see that that little negotiating sword has two edges. If UPS gives you a sweet contract with nice raises and continued no shared cost bene's and the like, you can be sure the Teamsters will use it against UPS in 2013, saying "hey, you gave in to these guys, if you give them what they want you can't now come ask us for cencesions".

 

[mrv]

Not snake oil, just the facts on the ground as I have seen them over the past years.

Also, I agree with you to an extent UPS is playing hard ball in order to get the best contract it can for UPS, to then use that as a precedent with the Teamsters in 2013. Understand though, to me, UPS is not trying to do this out of greed. This is a matter of survival, not greed. Not survival for the next 3 years, or 5 years, but for the next 20, 50, 100 years. UPS cannot survive if it cannot compete, and it cannot compete if it's cost structure continues to go the way it currently is. And really, the true survivability of UPS will be decided by the Teamsters contract in 2013. That is where the lions share of costs lie.

Some of your brothers have sugested UPS should just give you what you want because you are a relatively small work group and the costs will be easy to absorb. However, you and I both know that UPS wants a concesion laden contract from you to use in negotiations with the Teamsters. Since you recognize that, surely you can see that that little negotiating sword has two edges. If UPS gives you a sweet contract with nice raises and continued no shared cost bene's and the like, you can be sure the Teamsters will use it against UPS in 2013, saying "hey, you gave in to these guys, if you give them what they want you can't now come ask us for cencesions".

I completely agree! We currently have the best contract in the industry, and given the current economic realities we should be happy with what we got...for the moment. Unfortuneatly our E-board has unrealistic expectations and are pushing for a contract during hard economic times. Our lack of leadership at the local level has lead to layoffs and hardball tactics by UPS. We need professional representation from our E-board! The only hope we have, to avoid a concessionary contract, is to be patient....We need a new(old) E-board in 2010 and start over. UPS has our E-board by the short hairs and will continue to apply pressure with layoffs until we have a new(old) E-board in place.

 

[Cookdaddy]

I am a great American. Decorated war vet.
I also can call it as it is.
BTW, brush up on your grammar and spelling.

"You! What PLANET is this! There's nothing disgusting about it. It's just another life form, that's all. You get used to those things."
-Leonard (Bones) McCoy- Star Trek TOS

 

[ACE]

You're pathetic!
Where do you get the Hitler quotes, at the Union Hall?
I'll bet that you probably read them every morning for "inspiration"

No Tattle Tail, the union hall doesn't have books of history. You have to go to a library for good information on history. I bet you are one of those that would like to burn books that you find offensive. You obviously don't like to read Maint. Manuals. Heck you probably believe that we keep the Maint. Manuals in the union hall too!. We do have the one "Boeing 757 Door Opening Secrets". If it got out we fear the sep sups would gain dominion over us.

Now I have to get back to my inspirational reading, little sensitive sep sup.

"In the absence of orders, go find something and kill it."
- Field Marshal Erwin Rommel​

 

[JETDOC]

I am a great American. Decorated war vet.
I also can call it as it is.
BTW, brush up on your grammar and spelling.

so is John Kerry

 

[SKYKING BIRDMAN]

I am a great American. Decorated war vet.
I also can call it as it is.
BTW, brush up on your grammar and spelling.

You don't get medals for slinging hash. Leave this country if you don't like it! SELL OUT!

 

[Cookdaddy]

I am a great American. Decorated war vet.
I also can call it as it is.
BTW, brush up on your grammar and spelling.

" For your Resistance. I shall take great pleasure in tracking you down- and making the kill...YOU ARE SUPERIOR TO NO ONE! Never underestimate your prey or disrespect its abilities. If you do, you will become the hunted. When the opposing army invades this city, remember my words... YOU ARE MINE NOW AND AFTER DEATH!
-Alpha Hirogen- Star Trek Voyager

 

[jetmech09]

Santa better start contracting charter flights. Its going to be an ugly peak for UPS. P.S. I was looking for a job when I found this one. Ups is not lord Jesus the Savior!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

This issue will be resolved long before Peak.

 

[Lue C Fur]

This issue will be resolved long before Peak.

Next date for talks is in November. When does "peak" start? The way it looks is that the big brown machine could care less about its customers (and employees) and peak is going to be a mess.

 

[happybob]

The playing field is on its way to getting leveled. The house has ruled, the senate is fillerbuster proof, and you have a liberal democrat in obama. Fed-Ex will get unionized. When that does happen, will the company stop useing that as an excuse to look for concesions? No, it will always want concesions. Just remember this UPS, you didn't get this passed without the help of the Teamsters, the same Teamsters you will be trying to get concessions from in 2013.

 

[mrv]

Next date for talks is in November. When does "peak" start? The way it looks is that the big brown machine could care less about its customers (and employees) and peak is going to be a mess.

Peak starts after Thanksgiving. Lets see if our E-board has a November suprise for UPS...and I don't mean more billboards!! Maybe Dis-Organized Labor can bring in some of his "Far Superior" mechanics from Asia to make thing run smoooooth!

 

[mrv]

The playing field is on its way to getting leveled. The house has ruled, the senate is fillerbuster proof, and you have a liberal democrat in obama. Fed-Ex will get unionized. When that does happen, will the company stop useing that as an excuse to look for concesions? No, it will always want concesions. Just remember this UPS, you didn't get this passed without the help of the Teamsters, the same Teamsters you will be trying to get concessions from in 2013.

Truth be told UPS would much rather play under FEDex's rules. UPS would bust every Union on property if they could.

 

[happybob]

Truth be told UPS would much rather play under FEDex's rules. UPS would bust every Union on property if they could.

You are right, but we both know that's not going to happen. They begged, they pleaded, they cried, Fed-Ex is non-union. They have to get unionized if we are to play on a level playing field. Well, that is about to happen, but, you and I both know they will have a new reason to begg, plead and cry at every contract they negotiate, just the way it is and always will be.

 

[Cookdaddy]

You are right, but we both know that's not going to happen. They begged, they pleaded, they cried, Fed-Ex is non-union. They have to get unionized if we are to play on a level playing field. Well, that is about to happen, but, you and I both know they will have a new reason to begg, plead and cry at every contract they negotiate, just the way it is and always will be.[/quote]
"There's a story I heard as a child, a parable, and I never forgot it. A Scorpion was walking along the bank of a river, wondering how to get to the other side. Suddenly he saw a fox. He asked the fox to take him on his back to the other side of the river. The fox said, 'No. If I did that you will sting me, and I will drown.' The scorpion assures him, ' If I did that, we would both drown'. So the fox thought about it, and finally agreed. So the scorpion climbed on his back, and the fox began to swim. But halfway across the river the scorpion stung him. As the poison filled his veins, the fox turned to the scorpion and said,' Why did you do that? Now you'll drown,too.' 'I could'nt help it,' said the scorpion. 'Its my nature.' "
-Chakotay- Star Trek Voyager