Management and Admin Job cuts

[whiskey]

I don't think all upper management people think this way, but many do - I've heard the comments with my own ears. Don't take it personal though, many also think lower management people are stupid and lazy. Somewhere along the way we lost the ability to have meaningful problem solving conversations. Discussions of problems have degraded to two minute personal attacks with the the end result being something (and maybe a lie) designed to keep someone out of hot water on a conference call.

My hope is that this changes when a bunch of armchair quarterbacks and second guessers are let go or reassigned. I may very well be impacted (or let go) with this change, but I'd rather be let go than continue on with the way things are now. If I end up sticking around I'm looking forward to less micro management, less armchair quarterback second guessing, and more true problem solving with my division manager & for my work group.

Your a brave person, with more courage in the tip of your little finger than I have in my entire body.

 

[local804]

Two path to follow in mgmt, up and out.

 

[satellitedriver]

First, less micro management becasue there is just no time.

Second, make decisions that are P&L based instead of metric based.
P-Man

From your lips to the ears of God.

 

[randomUPSISer]

Random upser,
Do not really want to spend alot of time "debating " performance with you ---while important is still just one of the thousands of cost elements that must be managed.
Sure --a reaction --now they want us to run and speed. In all of the OJS rides I personally had with drivers --no one ever did nor was instructed to speed or run --just the opposite. Do the job correctly. Where this gets blurred --some not all ---drivers will talk and talk,"socialize --suddenly realize they are way behind --instead of doing the job correctly -unsafe short cuts come in to play --WHOSE FAULT ??? Please --not going to waste time going round and round on this --wellover 90% of good hardworking Teamsters work hard and do the job correctly --10 % same people over and over --do not do the job and try to blame everyone but the true problem --themselves ---very same with Management --90% good hardwoking people --10% mistakes -cause more problems than they solve --this is "human nature" never changes.
As any honest Management person or Teamster would agree on --no price on a life --also cost of major accident or injury never is made up by drivers shorting lunches or working unsafely.
Bottom line --using this "excuse" is B/S. A smoke screen !!

I'll only say this: When a person of "authority" is around (especially if they are there watching) people always follow rules to the letter. It doesn't surprise me that you haven't witnessed rule "bending" out there. It also doesn't surprise me that you've the same outlook on management not bending rules.

No one wants someone to get hurt, I agree. When the situation is setup to have nearly impossible goals to meet, and you getting in trouble if they arent met, people figure out a way to meet them. I think we've saw enough people in here talking about how things are ideally setup at first, then more volume added, or routes changed, etc etc. Is it like that everywhere? I dont know. Is it like that in some places? Absolutely! The corporate IE people, as well as the high up managers, will never know about it because everyone does their best to make it appear its not that way. Think: "Emperors New Clothes" if you need a parable to use as an example of this behavior.

 

[soberups]

No one wants someone to get hurt, I agree. When the situation is setup to have nearly impossible goals to meet, and you getting in trouble if they arent met, people figure out a way to meet them. .

The problem with the philosophy of "continuous improvement" is that no matter how well you do your job it will never be good enough. These are the Five Steps to Continuous Improvement at UPS.

Step one; impossible expectations are imposed upon a work group by an absent, out-of-touch management person from behind a desk.

Step two; under threat of dire consequences, local supervision meets impossible expectations by bending rules, violating contract, taking shortcuts and manipulating statistics.

Step three; Those results then become the new standard upon which further improvement is expected; expectations that were once merely impossible now become destructive and utterly divorced from reality.

Step four; The system eventually collapses under the weight of increasingly ridiculous expectations; the dishonesty and broken rules are exposed; those who broke the rules are fired or demoted, while those who were responsible for the impossible expectations in the first place are promoted for their efforts.

Step five; repeat process!

 

[pretzel_man]

The problem with the philosophy of "continuous improvement" is that no matter how well you do your job it will never be good enough. These are the Five Steps to Continuous Improvement at UPS.

Step one; impossible expectations are imposed upon a work group by an absent, out-of-touch management person from behind a desk.

Step two; under threat of dire consequences, local supervision meets impossible expectations by bending rules, violating contract, taking shortcuts and manipulating statistics.

Step three; Those results then become the new standard upon which further improvement is expected; expectations that were once merely impossible now become destructive and utterly divorced from reality.

Step four; The system eventually collapses under the weight of increasingly ridiculous expectations; the dishonesty and broken rules are exposed; those who broke the rules are fired or demoted, while those who were responsible for the impossible expectations in the first place are promoted for their efforts.

Step five; repeat process!

You know, there certainly is truth to the thought that in our business there is a limit to continuous improvement. After moving to my current house, my commute to work continually improved for a while.

I learned traffic patterns, new ways to get to work and how to avoid rush hour. I even learned how far above the speed limit I could go. Today, no matter what, I will not improve my commute. It is at it absolute limit.

However, many on this board including you seem to have an even poorer proposition. And that is one that says there is no way to measure improvement.

I've heard the argument that:
SPORH is not a good measure
NDPPH is not a good measure
Over / under is not a good measure
SEAS is not a good measure
Cost statements are not a good measure
Even combining them all into a Balanced Scorecard is not a good measure

So, while I agree that one cannot continuously improve forever there must be a measure of current state even if its flawed. How can you simultaneously tell me that I am overdispatching, and then tell me there is no way to measure the dispatch.

I don't believe in giving every kid in school an A and I don't believe that we can survive as an organization without a measurement system.

I'm sure people will have fun with this one.

P-Man

 

[ImWiredIn]

P-man - How is it clear that there will be no management "bumping"? Ideally that would be the case to avoid musical chairs around each district. I hope this is the case.

I am just curious if someone in a district office 50 or even 150 miles away would be offered my FT job as a demotion. I'm wondering if many DM's will go to grade 18's and many current managers will take sup positions.

Clearly units of measure will always be key to understand where we stand at UPS.

 

[Red Rose Tea]

Wired in - are you in a District office (BD)? If so, is your current District going to be the new District office? Or are you an admin in a center?

 

[hellfire]

The problem with the philosophy of "continuous improvement" is that no matter how well you do your job it will never be good enough. These are the Five Steps to Continuous Improvement at UPS.

Step one; impossible expectations are imposed upon a work group by an absent, out-of-touch management person from behind a desk.

Step two; under threat of dire consequences, local supervision meets impossible expectations by bending rules, violating contract, taking shortcuts and manipulating statistics.

Step three; Those results then become the new standard upon which further improvement is expected; expectations that were once merely impossible now become destructive and utterly divorced from reality.

Step four; The system eventually collapses under the weight of increasingly ridiculous expectations; the dishonesty and broken rules are exposed; those who broke the rules are fired or demoted, while those who were responsible for the impossible expectations in the first place are promoted for their efforts.

Step five; repeat process!

Call me a jerk or union hater or whatever but im one of those god awfull hourlys that actually gets along with his operations team. in my way too many years at ups ive befriended alot of long gone on roads and center managers,, and even the ultra rare disrict manager a few years back,. My point is i got to know the mindset of corporate by hanging out and talking to , having a few beers,, watching fights or football with these horrible operations people. The vast majority are good, honest, hardworking people that have been set up to fail... It is a no win situation for operations,, sober you are dead on

 

[pretzel_man]

P-man - How is it clear that there will be no management "bumping"? Ideally that would be the case to avoid musical chairs around each district. I hope this is the case.

I am just curious if someone in a district office 50 or even 150 miles away would be offered my FT job as a demotion. I'm wondering if many DM's will go to grade 18's and many current managers will take sup positions.

Clearly units of measure will always be key to understand where we stand at UPS.

The Q & A clearly said no bumping. I believe this to be unfair and bad for the business. I understand how difficult that would be to manage though and I bet our lawyers had their hand in this.

Here is the scenario. Lets say a district manager is left without a job. He / she is one of the 26 downsized. If there is no open lower level job, this person will be let go.

This district manager cannot say that he / she would like to be a division manager and take someone else's job. If you have a position, you get to keep it.

Again, I guess I understand. Imagine the difficulty as each person bumps another until the poorest or least senior is left.

P-Man

 

[Red Rose Tea]

does that no bumping pertain only to high-level management? or would it also pertain to admins who will be affected?

 

[ImWiredIn]

Rose, nope I am not an admin.

Thanks P-man, I'll have to take a look at a Q & A...never saw that. I assume it's on UPSers.com. It was sold to us as all, admins up to district managers, were at risk of losing their jobs.

It does sound like the package for those 54 and older will be taken from what I am hearing. I still have well over a decade to retirement and I'm not quite up to the applicable pay grade anyways in this case.

I do feel bad that DM's or above may be losing their jobs, but they tend to be an age that is nearing retirement and making really nice bank, and probably have for a long time. Mgmt layoffs in this economy is quite rough though...the prospective job market in many areas of the country is remains quite poor and I suspect we won't get back to sub 5% unemployment for the next decade.

 

[satellitedriver]

You know, there certainly is truth to the thought that in our business there is a limit to continuous improvement. After moving to my current house, my commute to work continually improved for a while.

I learned traffic patterns, new ways to get to work and how to avoid rush hour. I even learned how far above the speed limit I could go. Today, no matter what, I will not improve my commute. It is at it absolute limit.

However, many on this board including you seem to have an even poorer proposition. And that is one that says there is no way to measure improvement.

I've heard the argument that:
SPORH is not a good measure
NDPPH is not a good measure
Over / under is not a good measure
SEAS is not a good measure
Cost statements are not a good measure
Even combining them all into a Balanced Scorecard is not a good measure

So, while I agree that one cannot continuously improve forever there must be a measure of current state even if its flawed. How can you simultaneously tell me that I am overdispatching, and then tell me there is no way to measure the dispatch.

I don't believe in giving every kid in school an A and I don't believe that we can survive as an organization without a measurement system.

I'm sure people will have fun with this one.

P-Man

Not fun at all,
just watching the rule of diminishing returns.

 

[soberups]

...So, while I agree that one cannot continuously improve forever there must be a measure of current state even if its flawed. How can you simultaneously tell me that I am overdispatching, and then tell me there is no way to measure the dispatch....
P-Man

We cant survive as an organization without work measurements.

I believe there is a way to measure the dispatch with a reasonable amount of accuracy.

The problem is not that we cant make accurate measurements most of the time; the problem is that we are unwilling to ever admit or take corrective action when those measurements turn out to be wrong.

It is human nature that nobody wants to be the guy who tells the boss that his expectations are unrealistic. Unfortunately, it is impossible to solve a problem until you are willing to admit that it exists in the first place.

 

[ImWiredIn]

Im surprised that a legitimate goal is not stress tested by the on-car sup to verify whether or not it is a good goal to have.

Couldn't find a Q&A about positions getting bumped...was it on UPSers.com or did they take it down? Thanks!

 

[pretzel_man]

Im surprised that a legitimate goal is not stress tested by the on-car sup to verify whether or not it is a good goal to have.

Couldn't find a Q&A about positions getting bumped...was it on UPSers.com or did they take it down? Thanks!

Its there. I just looked at it today.

You have to look around a bit for the Q and A section (or maybe its calle Frequently Asked Questions.)

P-Man

 

[Braveheart]

I don't think all upper management people think this way, but many do - I've heard the comments with my own ears. Don't take it personal though, many also think lower management people are stupid and lazy. Somewhere along the way we lost the ability to have meaningful problem solving conversations. Discussions of problems have degraded to two minute personal attacks with the the end result being something (and maybe a lie) designed to keep someone out of hot water on a conference call.

My hope is that this changes when a bunch of armchair quarterbacks and second guessers are let go or reassigned. I may very well be impacted (or let go) with this change, but I'd rather be let go than continue on with the way things are now. If I end up sticking around I'm looking forward to less micro management, less armchair quarterback second guessing, and more true problem solving with my division manager & for my work group.

Very impressed with what you had to say.

You sound like a driver with some of your comments. We too are are sick of the micro-managing and Monday morning quarterbacking.

I have a friend who is a former on-road who said over the last few years, since going public with our stock, all but one of his fellow management buddies have moved on.

UPS and loyalty are not on the same page like they used to be.

 

[ImWiredIn]

I've looked everywhere for that FAQ or Q&A...I must not have access on my UPSers.com page for some reason.

 

[Dragon]

The Q & A clearly said no bumping. I believe this to be unfair and bad for the business. I understand how difficult that would be to manage though and I bet our lawyers had their hand in this.

Here is the scenario. Lets say a district manager is left without a job. He / she is one of the 26 downsized. If there is no open lower level job, this person will be let go.

This district manager cannot say that he / she would like to be a division manager and take someone else's job. If you have a position, you get to keep it.

Again, I guess I understand. Imagine the difficulty as each person bumps another until the poorest or least senior is left.

P-Man

P-Man is correct on all these points. I as a center manager could see the Q&A but when we logged on to on the Supervisor's UPSers we could not see it. We have been told the new staff for all the districts will be announced 3-10-10.
.

At this same meeting we were told we would be looking to reduce our support of NASCAR but would increase our support for the international golfer that we sponsor. Go figure....

 

[ImWiredIn]

Thank you. Curious as to the motivation of only putting the FAQ on the manger's page and above as opposed to all admins all the way through district level mgmt. I assume there must be some rhyme / reason to this.

To have people worry needlessly for months at a time does not seem prudent.