Management Pensions

[beentheredonethat]

Significant,
I agree with you in that the stress level is lower but it's only lower because people are at the point of saying "why bother". I think the thing that frustrates most mgmt people the most is not just that the overall compensation has been lowered. It's that they try to tell us that it's a good deal or that it really isn't lowered. I also love the double speak. We have the best mgmt people blah blah.. We work harder and expect more blah blah. Jim Casey quotes blah blah.. Then, a compensation company we hired says you are over compensated compared to other average companies who have jobs similar to yours. Really? What about working harder, being better, Jim Casey quotes? How many companies don't have senior level hourly employees not want to go to mgmt due to no real increase in pay rate, and with less job security. For all those reasons, people say... oh well, why bother let's act like employees "NOT PARTNERS" and work like an average employee works at other companies. I'm fine with that. I can work less and not feel at all guilty about it.

 

[SignificantOwner]

Significant,
I agree with you in that the stress level is lower but it's only lower because people are at the point of saying "why bother". I think the thing that frustrates most mgmt people the most is not just that the overall compensation has been lowered. It's that they try to tell us that it's a good deal or that it really isn't lowered. I also love the double speak. We have the best mgmt people blah blah.. We work harder and expect more blah blah. Jim Casey quotes blah blah.. Then, a compensation company we hired says you are over compensated compared to other average companies who have jobs similar to yours. Really? What about working harder, being better, Jim Casey quotes? How many companies don't have senior level hourly employees not want to go to mgmt due to no real increase in pay rate, and with less job security. For all those reasons, people say... oh well, why bother let's act like employees "NOT PARTNERS" and work like an average employee works at other companies. I'm fine with that. I can work less and not feel at all guilty about it.

I agree with all of that. We should meet after work for a drink sometime - at 5. Let someone making the money worry about that stuff.

 

[UPS1907]

Sometimes I think he's doing us a favor. The stress level is much lower than it used to be because people don't care about work as much. We go to lunch and don't talk about work. I see people at meetings I haven't seen for a while and we don't talk about work. There are more people hugging each other at work than ever. Everyone seems to be leaving earlier. If it's not like this in your area then you should try it. It's kind of nice.

It's amazing the effect a company that keeps s-hitting on management will have on it's culture and work ethic.

 

[Dragon]

I agree with all of that. We should meet after work for a drink sometime - at 5. Let someone making the money worry about that stuff.

I'm in.....

 

[SignificantOwner]

It's amazing the effect a company that keeps s-hitting on management will have on it's culture and work ethic.

I haven't noticed a decline in work ethic in my peers because work ethic comes from within the individual. I have noticed a "you get what you pay for" attitude changing behavior. It's still a fair days work for a fair day's pay, but it's a significant cultural shift from my perspective.

 

[Catatonic]

I haven't noticed a decline in work ethic in my peers because work ethic comes from within the individual. I have noticed a "you get what you pay for" attitude changing behavior. It's still a fair days work for a fair day's pay, but it's a significant cultural shift from my perspective.

I agree ... I do a lot of pro bono work and I work just as hard as do for the jobs at $90/hour.

As opposed to a good days work for a good day's pay?

 

[SignificantOwner]

I agree ... I do a lot of pro bono work and I work just as hard as do for the jobs at $90/hour.

As opposed to a good days work for a good day's pay?

No, as opposed to a day's pay and a day's work being out of balance.

 

[TxRoadDawg]

I agree ... I do a lot of pro bono work and I work just as hard as do for the jobs at $90/hour.

As opposed to a good days work for a good day's pay?

90 an hour, you hiring Hoax

 

[moreluck]

I picture Hoax like the Ray Romano on Parenthood...............solo photog.............'til the crazy broad comes to work for him.

 

[Catatonic]

I picture Hoax like the Ray Romano on Parenthood...............solo photog.............'til the crazy broad comes to work for him.

I already married her!

 

[oldbrownguy]

upscorp, I was trying to say that in the "old days", it didn't really matter what the pension for management people was because the stock performed so well. Supervisors (one unit folks), built up a strong portfolio that granted them a very comfortable retirement. They could sit on over a million dollars of stock and sell back what they wanted, and when they wanted to. So, potentially, they could sell back $100K per year, get a nice dividend check, and know that when the board met, the price would increase in large dollar amounts annually. Those days are gone, and the BOD doesn't care. So when I was talking about how poor our pension is, I should have elaborated a little more. Did you know the mechanics get a pension of over 7K per month? Im not saying they dont deserve it either. Im only saying that what we get compared to what we used to have available is a travesty, and nobody cares......

 

[Bamboozled]

oldbrownguy,
I heard that about the mechanics pension also. One of the mechanics told me a while ago thier union fought for more into the pension than the paycheck. Also unlike the Teamsters, the other companies that have employees in the Mechanics union contribute. UPS provides most of the money for the Teamsters pension and they pay to support the non UPSers.

In comparison, a mechanic with 35 years will probably get 7200 per month, a Driver probably 4200 a month and a Supervisor 3400 a month!!!

Oh wait I forgot, anyone promoted out of the union recently doesnt get a pension. They get an extra 1 percent in thier 401k. Their pension aftr 35 years will be $0.00 a month.

 

[Catatonic]

oldbrownguy,
I heard that about the mechanics pension also. One of the mechanics told me a while ago thier union fought for more into the pension than the paycheck. Also unlike the Teamsters, the other companies that have employees in the Mechanics union contribute. UPS provides most of the money for the Teamsters pension and they pay to support the non UPSers.

In comparison, a mechanic with 35 years will probably get 7200 per month, a Driver probably 4200 a month and a Supervisor 3400 a month!!!

Oh wait I forgot, anyone promoted out of the union recently doesnt get a pension. They get an extra 1 percent in thier 401k. Their pension aftr 35 years will be $0.00 a month.

Seems a little high for a driver but it depends on your local - some are higher and some are lower ... much lower.
Supervisor with 35 years is about $2000 a month low ... more like $5400 month.
A Union employee promoted recently does get a pension if they are ~33 years of age or older ... otherwise, as you stated.

 

[Karma...]

Seems a little high for a driver but it depends on your local - some are higher and some are lower ... much lower.
Supervisor with 35 years is about $2000 a month low ... more like $5400 month.
A Union employee promoted recently does get a pension if they are ~33 years of age or older ... otherwise, as you stated.

....Hoaxster, supervisor with 35 years gets right around 3550 a month....If it was 5400 Id be long gone.....Its no secret that the Teamsters & especially the IAM run a better pension plan than corporate ups.

 

[oldbrownguy]

....Hoaxster, supervisor with 35 years gets right around 3550 a month....If it was 5400 Id be long gone.....Its no secret that the Teamsters & especially the IAM run a better pension plan than corporate ups.

Me too !!!

 

[Catatonic]

....Hoaxster, supervisor with 35 years gets right around 3550 a month....If it was 5400 Id be long gone.....Its no secret that the Teamsters & especially the IAM run a better pension plan than corporate ups.

I guess there are variable inputs then based on one's contribution to the pension plan.

The supervisor I reviewed was in supervision for 34 years and he was 59 and we were reviewing his monthly pension when he turned 60and he would have 40 years in. He had been getting the extra month's reward on MIP for ownership for the previous 13 years (or so) and he never sold stock.

This means he had no penalty for early retirement.
Management with 35 years has a full retirement age of 60 ... less than 35 years it is age 65.
There is a 3% penalty for each year a person retires before their full retirement age.

The $5400 per month was for himself only with nothing going to his wife if he died (he purchased life insurance instead).
Getting $3550 means retiring the minute you reach 55 and being at the bottom of the pay range for a supervisor and the spouse at 100% guarantee if you die.

The other thing I can think of is you are 40 now instead of the implied 55 or older.

 

[mg5]

Hoaxster, Your numbers seem way high for a sup. Even coming from a large Metro East coast district with that pay scale it is high for people I know and have discussed this with. Most of us talking retirement in last two years all had 34 plus years service, 20 + in mgmt and nobody had numbers above low to mid 4's even taking highest payout number. Also I'm not sure why you mentioned stock and not selling any. Did not see where that comes into play for your retirement pension monthly amount.

 

[oldbrownguy]

This goes back to the original intent of my post. If the BOD had not changed the MIP due to pure greed, it wouldn't really matter if a persons monthly pension varied by a thousand or 1400 because the stock would be the main source of income. These guys are laughing all the way to the bank. Anyone else notice that every year since we became public, the price of stock rises right before they announce what the price for MIP will be. Why? Higher price = less shares distributed.

 

[UnconTROLLed]

An hourly of 30 years collects a greater pension than a supervisor. (In some cases, far greater) Nevermind the savings in benefits and everything else throughout their careers, it's egregiously bad to have such a low payout during a time period of record profits. Does UPS strive to promote the best, or the most willing?

 

[Catatonic]

Hoaxster, Your numbers seem way high for a sup. Even coming from a large Metro East coast district with that pay scale it is high for people I know and have discussed this with.

1) Most of us talking retirement in last two years all had 34 plus years service, 20 + in mgmt and nobody had numbers above low to mid 4's even taking highest payout number.

2) Also I'm not sure why you mentioned stock and not selling any. Did not see where that comes into play for your retirement pension monthly amount.

To be clear here, when I say retire, I mean working until retirement age.
Taking early retirement has, and always has, penalties involved.
Sorry if that was not clear.

The supervisor was born in 1953 ...maybe he was grandfathered in a different plan???
And I mentioned above, he was working until he was eligible for retirement ... not early retirement.

Were these people looking at their payouts at full-retirement age?
Full-retirement age is 65 for a person with less than 35 years of service.
Their pension would be reduced if they took early retirement ... losing 3% per year before age 65.
If they were 55 with 34 years of service, they would lose 30% of their pension.
Full-retirement age is 60 for a person with 35 years of service or more.
If they were 55 with 35 or more years of service, they would lose 15% of their pension.

I worked to 58 yrs and 5 months with 40 years service and was penalized 4.7% myself.

Few people retire at 55 these days ... its usually 58 years or older like I did.

I predict in another 5 years, few people will retire before age 62 and 65 if they don't have 35 years.