New Orleans

[moreluck]

Just a small portion of what UPS is doing......

"In addition to the efforts of The UPS Foundation, UPS is establishing a separate relief fund to which the company and other UPS employees will contribute to support fellow UPSers who have lost their homes and belongings. The UPS Employee Hurricane Relief Fund will start with an initial $250,000 contribution from the company, which also will match contributions from other employees."

This is for UPS employees and families....put your money where your mouth is folks....everything will be matched.

Here's more....

$125,000 to the Disaster Relief Fund of the American Red Cross: The national chapter of the Red Cross will disperse these funds to provide shelter, food, counseling and other assistance to hurricane victims.
$125,000 to America's Second Harvest: Monies will go to its emergency hunger relief activities to assist with donated food and other essential grocery items being directed to the impacted areas.
$250,000 to support ongoing recovery efforts: These funds will be distributed to relief organizations providing long-term rebuilding activities in the affected areas.

 

[wily_old_vet]

Susie-First of all get your facts straight. I've never called the people scum. I feel tremendous sorrow for the plight of the people trapped in New Orleans. My point about the reporter was, it's very easy to report on what people don't have but if you are going into a area that doesn't have food or water it only makes sense to take some with you to help alleviate the shortage. The mistake I made was making an ASSumption that they took nothing with them to help. I have already made a donation to Salvation Army and I will be giving more. I don't need to see pictures of the dead to help me make my decisions.

 

[wily_old_vet]

3zm7f-what a classless and racist thing to say. They are not Jesse Jackson's people, they share his skin color. We are all God's creation.

 

[susiedriver]

wily,

No, it was OK2B who called them scum, didn't mean to infer that you did. You do seem remarkably un-informed for someone that has access to the internet, though.

As I pointed out earlier, Lowes is matching customer donations. As far as I can tell, UPS is not for former employees.

Oh, and wily, have you seen the latest offer from Chavez offering aid? I know it's grandstanding, but he has offered, as well as a host of other countries. BushCo has turned down all offers.

 

[ok2bclever]

Yeah, I new speaking the harsh truth would upset the bleeding hearts.

There is a major difference between feeling for people and putting up with scum.

You destroy businesses and stupidly steal microwaves and TVs right now, shoot at medical copters and police, you are scum, period.

I really don't care if they had a bad childhood or any other bleeding heart excuse, many have a bad childhood and go on to be good people, so it just ends up being what it is, an excuse.

Read slower suzie or more thoroughly.

I specifically said "I am far more concerned with those that proactively opted to go to the "safe houses" like the Superdome"

I feel horrible for the people (not the scum, there is a difference) who have suffered from this tragedy and they need to helped right now!

I have already contributed both money to the Red Cross and products (an internet company called Coffee Cup out of Texas that is organizing help in a different way. You can check it out and help here: http://tinyurl.com/8hr6w).

How many of you have actually given anything but words so far.

gee moreluck, I have trouble looking at children and thinking of them as scum of the earth also, we have something in common.

However, that doesn't mean I am scared to call scum the literally thousands of the "poor" people that are obviously physically fit who ignored all official warnings to get out and show they are easily capable of breaking through steel curtains to steal microwaves and televisions, let alone get out of the area, many of whom had or have since stolen guns and are willing to use them on the police, rescue crews and medical choppers.

There is a percentage of scum in the human race regardless of any bleeding heart denials.

So unfortunately, while children are not scum, there are children of scum.

That doesn't make them scum.

They grow up and become what they want.

Some become valuable contributing citizens of our world and some parasitical scum.

There are tons of people that deserve our empathy and help and a number that do not and that will always be the case.

That's just the facts of life, sorry if the truth bothers you.

Like I said, if you cannot handle the truth I wish you butterflies and rainbows.

 

[3zm7f]

Wily old vet, if you ever listen to Jesse Jackson talk,he does say his people, you being form Maryland you don"t hear as much as I do being from Illinois.He was just on the news, and your not going to believe what he said.He said that it"s not as bad as they say.I don"t know what news he is watching.

 

[susiedriver]

ok2b,

You see, you really surprised me with the 'scum' comment. I had always pegged you to be pretty level headed. I grew up in your neck of the woods; my folks lived in Detroit during the riots. I was young, but remember the fires and tracer bullets in the sky. Youre in the Tri-Cities area, right? Hard times there. I've left the area, but keep up.

Desperate people do desperate things. The people I feel for are the mothers and fathers who did what the government told them to do, and are still dying on the street from lack of care. Yes, there is looting and thugs running around. NO after dark must be more frightening than Fallujah.

Read slower OK2b, I said they went to safe houses, only to find that there was no food, water, shelter or transportation there. There arent even FEMA or NO officials there. This is a travesty.

Sorry, I may be feeling more emotional these days, but when I see good people on the TV asking why their government is letting them die on the streets, I get a bit weepy, and frankly, pissed.

Yes, Ive given, through Lowes, so my donation could be maximized. I gave to both RC& SA. I would have given through UPS if they matched my donation.

Like I said in the initial post, I have a bad feeling about this.

 

[dannyboy]

"Sorry, I may be feeling more emotional these days, but when I see good people on the TV asking why their government is letting them die on the streets, I get a bit weepy, and frankly, pissed. "

Susie, I dont get weepy, I get pissed. They are not asking why the gooberment is letting them die in the streets, they are demanding help. You see they have gotten very used to demanding that the gooberment pick up the tab for every portion of their lives, they are angry because the gravy train has hit a bump in the road. No where to pick up the welfare check, no where to cash it even if they did. Darn, they even had to get off the couch and go somewhere to be safe. How dare the government interupt their lives that way.

What gives them the right to demand our government pluck them out of the "safe house" where they decided to go. Why not leave like the government told them in the first place. And I dont believe that they could not afford to escape the trouble if they wanted.

I personally like that little kid who was doing his best to act like he was trying to cry for the camera.

As for the dead in front of the camera, well where the hell are they gonna put the dead person. There was one lying on the ground covered up, another in a wheel chair. Cold or heartless, my suggestion would be push them out into the sea. Unless they get rid of the bodies, many more will die because of the bad sanitation there.

One more question. If I build my 500,000 home on an island in a river below a dam that holds back a large lake, and for some reason they have to let a lot of water into the river to keep the dam from breaching. Why should I go to every one here to help me rebuild the home on the island, knowing damn well it could happen again and again. And why should all of you have to chip in to build a dyke around my house to protect it from the river.

If they need help, give them help. But forcing the rest of the USA to rebuild a city that is 20+ feet under sea level and that prone to this type of disaster is beyond me. While there are no easy answers, rebuilding the entire city is foolish.

d

 

[pd109]

yes susiedriver,"I had a bad feeling about this"and I agreed.I quoted the tragically hip lyrics "new orleans is sinkin,and I dont wanna swim"and suggested people not try to stick it out.I guess they dont visit the brown cafe`.I`ve followed this thread from the beginning,but have not said anything...being that I am far removed from it up here in Canada...now they`ve pulled that song from the radio by the way.You people have covered most every angle of the tragedy to a point where I feel more informed than just the news would`ve conveyed.The acts of violence some of these people are comitting,should not be tolerated.black or white.Bring in the snipers for the ones with guns,Then save the rest.

 

[toonertoo]

I like what Franklin Graham said on tv tonight. Go into the Superdome and the Astrodome and drag every able bodied man, and women without children over 18 out to help clean up, and reconstruct. Work for food. No work no food for you. I agree with the statement about the gooberment. Especially on the first of the month. Its a great country, we take care of those who need it, but it is never enough. When I am delivering and all I see are welfare food cards, and carts full of ice cream, 100 chicken wings, pop, candy, 100% sugar coated cereals, we have let the help thing go too far. 930 am and groups of guys, all looking pretty capable to me of handling 40 oz bottles, and Im already working my ass off, it has gone too far.
Yes there is unemployment but there are also jobs that go begging coz they dont pay "enough". Well what is enough if you have nothing? I used to work for 2.35 an hour, I could have made more sitting at home. But I didnt like being there and found a way to get out. Too many families generation after generation have no motivation to do a thing but cash a check on the first. Im tired of paying for it. Maybe that is why they are not getting the help they need. They demand it instead of be grateful for it. I only feel sorry for the ones who truly cannot help themselves. the ones who worked all their lives and were stuck as they are now elderly.

 

[susiedriver]

There are some cold people here.

At least there is some equality in nature. Do you think the 'gooberment' will pay for this?:
http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/08/30/katrina.lott/

 

[ok2bclever]

susie, my statement was exactly that. I am concerned for those without resources that followed the government directives and are being let down.

It seems like even with the several legitimate catastrophic prediction studies of what a hurricane of this nature would (not could) do to the area those in charge did not actually believe or plan for it in any way.

My issue is with the reality that there are lazy bad people in the world and we can't and frankly shouldn't take care of them.

They are surfacing like the maggots always do under pressure.

There are poor people and then there are scum, there is a difference.

My actual initial point was scum isn't a color, but a life philosophy and that scum don't deserve help.

Those looting money and electronics, those shooting at authorities and making rescues impossible, those looting the hospitals and roaming in armed gangs, those are scum and make me furious and I would have no qualms with the police or national guard taking them out permanently.

I will say I don't believe in this particular emergency situation most of the people still there (an unbelievable amount) are there because they had no choice.

It was because they chose not to believe the hurricane would cause this serious a problem for them.

I felt your "planned poor abandonment" statement was a hasty generalization as they were offering buses at one point to the "poor" and they weren't getting any takers.

That doesn't mean they do not deserve our empathy and assistance.

No one is turning buses down now though.

I do believe those that went to the safe houses prior to the hurricane hit went there because they had no alternative for whatever reasons and should have priority over those that just decided they'd be ok ignoring the warnings and staying home.

 

[dannyboy]

"There are some cold people here.

At least there is some equality in nature. Do you think the 'gooberment' will pay for this?: "

Nope, he has insurance.

As for being cold, no I am not. I will bend over backwards for someone trying to help themselves. But I am damn tired of being forced to help someone else at my expense when they dont even try to help themselves.

Take Tenncare. It costs the average Tennesseean $2800 each year to fund the program.

For my family alone that cost is $11,200.

Two families I know personally are on tenncare. One owns a print shop. Each year they take at least a weeks cruise, take a week or two in florida each christmas, take time off to go to vegas and other nice places like cancun. They buy new vehicles every two years or less, boys each get new vehicles every time they wrap the last one around a tree or car. One son has totaled 4 cars and damaged three more.

The other owns a repo service and pulls down about 140 grand a year.

Both of these families are on Tenncare, taking money out of my pocket to pay for their healthcare and saving their own money for something else. And now that Tenncare is being cut back, they allong with thousands of others are predicting large scale fatalities because they can no longer get free medical assistance.

Well it aint free. I and thousands of others here pay for it.

If there is a need, fill it. But those that demand free services when they are able to provide them for themselves should be turned away.

Tell me something, I go out and borrow millions of dollars to buy a house. I have no way of paying the money back, so I default the loan. Should everyone else be forced to help pay off my home so I dont loose my shelter? It was my choice to buy the home. I made a bad choice. I need to live with the results.

d

 

[air_upser]

I always look forward to clever's posts, and I can't help but agree with his and Dannys point. Police officers having to guard their police station, and their lives, from thugs in our own Country is rediculous. Forget black hawk down, we got Escape from New Orleans.

When they lay their guns down or the new TV on their shoulder, theres no way to tell who the thugs are, and who are the people who really need a hand. Thats the sad part.

Just expanding on what Danny was saying, I too have no problem helping out a person who is down on their luck or is really trying to help themselves. I get red when I see the mother and 6 kids in the store buying beer and cigerettes with cash, then using welfare checks for whatever else. I admire the people who work their butts off to make money to support their families while others sit back and watch because the job is below them or something. 15 Kids were abandoned at the state fair this year. More than 10 are abandoned every year. We provide housing to families who cant afford. You would think they would at least pick up the garbage in the front yard.

Susie, we are not bad people. I have already given money to the Red Cross. I have provided work and a paycheck for the less fortunate even though I didnt really need the help. I will open my home to a family from Louisinana who has no where to go. I question why we havent sent supplies to the convention center and I question our overall response to the Hurricane. But I will not hold back saying I wish I had a bat for each thug roaming the streets of New Orleans hurting innocent people and property.

 

[wkmac]

OK2BC I agree with you on some of the folks down there and they are scum. No argument from this quarter. My wife had a good idea and that is to take our the decent folk and leave the scum criminals there and then dump out our other jails into the soap, build up a wall around NO and turn it into the movie scene of Escape From New York. Hey I like it!

Just call me Snake! LOL!

Also no argument that the local folks including their gov't didn't think ahead and plan ahead for the worse case scenario. When I got home last night even though I wanted to go on to bed I watched a program on Discovery concerning the Mississippi River and the lower Delta region. They've known for years and I mean years the levee system wasn't capable of handling this magnitude of storm and to make matters worse the continuous building going on down there and the continuing to levee up and direct the river flow was causing great harm. By not allowing the river to build it's own sediment and delta area laid the framework whereby a major storm had no natural buffer to knock down it's power before striking areas inhabited by people. In essence, they created their own worse nightmare through the engineering marvels of man and over development.

After what I watched last night I think once we get the folks cleared from down there a real serious discussion needs to take place on whether NO should even be built back. It's a hard question and so damn easy for me to ask sitting where I'm sitting but I do beieve someone needs to have the guts to ask it in the public forum and the public needs to have the guts to sit down, not over react, and really look at the situation.

I know many of the people down there are what some might call "city slickers" and don't have some skills like figuring out what one could use as a boat. These are not skills one would normally need where they live but if I was down there I can tell you straight up I'd have already crafted some type of water craft and paddled my way at least out of the flooded city.

 

[wkmac]

Well I see the Islamic world has their Pat Robertson's and Jerry Falwell's too! I'm sure the holy roller Baptist's in my neck of the woods will be crowing from the pulpits on Sunday about how God judged the evils of gambling on the Mississippi coast too. Maybe we should round up all these types and throw them inside the new New Orleans Prison Compound too!

https://web.archive.org/web/2006031...,0,4307527.story?coll=sns-ap-nation-headlines

(Message edited by wkmac on September 02, 2005)

 

[opie]

Interesting article which was written well before this hurricane. But reading it at first, it seems like it is about this hurricane. But towards the end, you realize that the article wasn't about this hurricane, but what may happen when a hurricane hits New Orleans. Which has now become reality.

http://magma.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0410/feature5/

 

[moreluck]

Looks like the cavalry has finally arrived....chasing the looters & shooters so rescue can really begin.

It's the re-building that keeps getting mentioned that concerns me. I hope it would be a plan that redesigns that "bowl" into a higher "mesa" (don't know the right word). They will definitely have the debris for the necessary landfill it would take to build up the city.

 

[susiedriver]

Interview w/mayor Nagin, well worth the listen:
http://www.atypical.net/mm/nagin.mp3

 

[moreluck]

Just watching the news....made me cry.........when they showed the president walking in Biloxi and 2 black women ran up to him (mom & daughter) and hugged him and were just sobbing and telling him about what they'd been through. So sad.

Bush is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. He didn't go in there earlier so he wouldn't interfere with any rescue activities. Now he comes in along with all the troops and convoys that have arrived and he'll be accused of "grandstanding". I feel sorry for the pres. and all the different circumstances he has had to deal with in his terms as pres.
JMHO