No union steward & management is out of control!

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

The only route I was trained on was my first training route in my first 30 days. After that I learned routes in the country in the snow in the dark, downtown, and in cities I had never been to.

when i first started that is what cover drivers did . in my building we have 150 pkg drivers and 5 on car suits how are you going to go out with every cover driver on every route. someone is going to go on the blind it is the nature of what we do.

Same here.

Add my name to that list as well. I would think that this made us better service providers. New drivers today are very reluctant to go on a route blind, even with PAS/EDD.

 

[konsole]

Others in here may recognize me for having starting a thread about supervisors working a like 6 weeks ago and we had some good discussions in there. Currently I have filed 3 grievances since then for supervisors working, so from my personal experience and from reading what others have said I can give you a few helpful pointers.

1. Like others have said don't worry about the losing friends part. If a coworker stops being a friend with you because you are filing grievances for good reason then that person isnt worth being friends with anyways. Its a professional environment not some place you go to make friends.

2. Make sure the supervisor doesnt have a "mediocre" reason to work, like the building is vastly understaffed from people calling out or the sup is filling in for someone whos late or the sup is helping someone that has a sore arm or back or whatever. If managment has even the weakest reason for a sup to work they will use it to deny the grievance. Its not that you shouldnt be able to file grievance during these events its just that you might as well pick from the abundance of times were there isnt even the slightest reason for them to work.

3. On the grievance make it known that there isnt even the slightest reason the supervisor was allowed to work and use examples like you had proper staffing and nobody was late or left early. Also make note of how many grievances you have filed about the subject. Make management know that this isnt a 1 grievance and give up event.

4. You will probably get targeted more for minor things, but as long as you continue to be a good worker and dont lose your cool they will start to see that they cant break you and will stop nitpicking you.

5. Most of the workers around you will not agree with your filing because they would rather the supervisor help them so their day is easier. Try to have a 1 on 1 chat with your coworkers and tell them that part of the reason why they are getting slammed is because with supervisors working management sees that more work can be done.

6. Take into consideration that management has to deal with too many people with bad attendance and try not to file every time you feel like it. File maybe once a week and use a day when a supervisors working is just too blatantly unnecessary.

 

[KingofBrown]

File the grievance. We go to work to do our jobs and make money; not to make friends. If you can be friends out of work, that'll be nice, but don't mix your job relationships with your personal ones. If you mix your personal relations with your job, in the future you won't be able to do your job right. Imagine if a supervisor friend asks you if you could work an hour for free. Would you do it? No, right? So I don't think the sup should find it personal, either, if he/she does, then that's his/her problem. File the grievance.

 

[tieguy]

Others in here may recognize me for having starting a thread about supervisors working a like 6 weeks ago and we had some good discussions in there. Currently I have filed 3 grievances since then for supervisors working, so from my personal experience and from reading what others have said I can give you a few helpful pointers.

1. Like others have said don't worry about the losing friends part. If a coworker stops being a friend with you because you are filing grievances for good reason then that person isnt worth being friends with anyways. Its a professional environment not some place you go to make friends.

management is often accused of screwing over their friends.

2. Make sure the supervisor doesnt have a "mediocre" reason to work, like the building is vastly understaffed from people calling out or the sup is filling in for someone whos late or the sup is helping someone that has a sore arm or back or whatever. If managment has even the weakest reason for a sup to work they will use it to deny the grievance. Its not that you shouldnt be able to file grievance during these events its just that you might as well pick from the abundance of times were there isnt even the slightest reason for them to work.

So file when the sup is working because he enjoys loading trailers?

3. On the grievance make it known that there isnt even the slightest reason the supervisor was allowed to work and use examples like you had proper staffing and nobody was late or left early. Also make note of how many grievances you have filed about the subject. Make management know that this isnt a 1 grievance and give up event.

Ahhh so the grievant should be part IE guy and know the volume and planned pph to determine the staffing was proper?

4. You will probably get targeted more for minor things, but as long as you continue to be a good worker and dont lose your cool they will start to see that they cant break you and will stop nitpicking you.

so its ok to hold the company accountable but they should not hold you accountable?

5. Most of the workers around you will not agree with your filing because they would rather the supervisor help them so their day is easier. Try to have a 1 on 1 chat with your coworkers and tell them that part of the reason why they are getting slammed is because with supervisors working management sees that more work can be done.

that argument defies logic. If the supervisor is doing the work then your coworkers are not getting slammed and are not having to work as hard as if the supervisor was holding them accountable for doing their job. The supervisor working also means he is not supervising them. Your co-workers want to work as little as possible. the supervisor doing their work allows them to do so. You stopping the supervisor from working means they will now have to work harder. You can't sell that.

6. Take into consideration that management has to deal with too many people with bad attendance and try not to file every time you feel like it. File maybe once a week and use a day when a supervisors working is just too blatantly unnecessary.

Again the question as to how you determine the supervisor was working for kicks and giggles that day?

 

[tieguy]

File the grievance. We go to work to do our jobs and make money; not to make friends. If you can be friends out of work, that'll be nice, but don't mix your job relationships with your personal ones. If you mix your personal relations with your job, in the future you won't be able to do your job right. Imagine if a supervisor friend asks you if you could work an hour for free. Would you do it? No, right? So I don't think the sup should find it personal, either, if he/she does, then that's his/her problem. File the grievance.

If I may show my admiration this type of advice sounds very cut throat and management like.

 

[JonClayton]

Thanks for all your guys help and advice. The problem was resolved rather quickly after I set the grievance papers on their desk. Since then there has been a dramatic change in part - time sups working. I highly surprised my full time went to work on this issue so quickly and seriously. I am also on the CHSP committee and I also had a talk with mgt about cooperation regarding safety and they took it seriously as well. Im very happy and pleased to see my full time at least trying to help me and other hourly s out in this area. I dont know how long this cooperation will last... but I for now all is well at our hub. Again, thanks for all the advice and information.

 

[raceanoncr]

By being properly trained on the route by a supervisor.

No one should ever be sent out to do a route blind. That's just asking for trouble for a number of reasons.

In any other workplace, doing a job blind would be an indication that the worker is not presently qualified to do the job correctly.

Funny. Only in that it brings back memories of when I was in P/C. I didn't have bid route. Too new. They axed me if I wanted to be X-man, the term used at that time to cover other areas or routes. I said, "Ain't that what I'm doing now?". "Well, yes, but you'll be 'officially' an 'X-man' ". Wow!

"Well, I'll do it if I get trained on every route or area".

"Of course, we INSIST you get trained on every route. We NEVER send anyone out blind".

Next day: "You're covering *******s area today".

"OK, who's going w/me?"

"Uh, nobody. We don't have anybody do go. You'll hafta go by yerself".

That was my whole career as an "X-man".

Feeders? Yeah, right! Same thing. Only more INACCURATE maps!

 

[stucrew]

You don't need a steward to file a grievance. Go to the Local, get 10 grievance forms and a contract book. Keep a pocket notebook in your pocket, date the page and record the time when the sup. is working (they can train, but that is spelled out in the contract book too. They have to stay within so many feet of the trainee). If you need help filling out the grievance form go back to the local and have your 'business agent' help you. Then take the grievance form to the Center Manager and have him sign showing that you turned it in and peel off the gold page (employee copy) and leave the rest with the center manager. He then has to respond to the form and send copies to the Local and UPS Labor. If he doesn't resolve it then there is a Local Grievance Hearing and up and up until the grievance is resolved and you are paid. The contract is real clear on the penalty for sup working so keep real good track of the times and record names of fellow workers who witnessed the Sup working. In your grievance be concise and to the point. Ex: Sup was working on this day between these times, I want double time pay at my rate of pay for so many hours(the contract specifies actual time sup worked or 4 hours whichever is less) and I want to be made Whole. Your steward can help you if you let him know that he is needed, and the business agent is there if the steward is not available. Perhaps you need to volunteer to ba a steward too so your shift has better representation (talk to your business agent).

 

[stucrew]

If I may show my admiration this type of advice sounds very cut throat and management like.

I see you are using the mgt. tactic of divide and conquer here. Doesn't sound to ME like the guy was mgt. sounds like he has a good point that you don't want taken seriously.

 

[stucrew]

Funny. Only in that it brings back memories of when I was in P/C. I didn't have bid route. Too new. They axed me if I wanted to be X-man, the term used at that time to cover other areas or routes. I said, "Ain't that what I'm doing now?". "Well, yes, but you'll be 'officially' an 'X-man' ". Wow!

"Well, I'll do it if I get trained on every route or area".

"Of course, we INSIST you get trained on every route. We NEVER send anyone out blind".

Next day: "You're covering *******s area today".

"OK, who's going w/me?"

"Uh, nobody. We don't have anybody do go. You'll hafta go by yerself".

That was my whole career as an "X-man".

Feeders? Yeah, right! Same thing. Only more INACCURATE maps!

Next day. Oh, you mean I should have been able to deliver all that and not have 50 missed stops? Welllllll, Maybe if I was trained on the area.

 

[T Princess Local 866]

You need to have a very thick skin and learn the contract backwards and forwards. You need to be level headed, but have the ability to "lose it" every once in a while,(sometimes you gotta get loud to get your point across, but only behind closed doors. Never, ever disrespect a management person in public. You are going to be held to a higher standard and looked to by the members and management to set an example to the workforce you represent. You will learn that 90% of your representation will come from 10% of your employees, those are the ones you need to talk with early and often to make sure they are covering their asses and following the methods.

It is a time consuming and unrewarding job, with no extra pay or benefits except the times when you actually HELP someone. Do not take this lightly, if you really think you can dedicate the time to do it properly then by all means step up and do it. If you cannot, don't.

Good Luck!

I agree with you, I couldn't have said it better than you. Nice job, good advice!