Promotion from driver to FT sup.

[brownrod]

We pretty much agree on everything except the UPS Driver being a Skilled Trade job.
If it was, then drivers doing the same thing outside UPS would be making $90,000 / year plus extremely good benefits worth another $45,000.
Simple answer is they don't.
UPS Drivers make the money they do because of the power of collective organization and consequent collective bargaining.

I would argue that those of us with Class A CDL's can make comparable money outside of UPS. I have done it. Unfortunately, it sucks worse than working at UPS.

 

[oldngray]

Well ... if that low a threshold of credibility is accepted, then the term has no meaning.

When I think of a Skilled Trade, I think of a certified and licensed professional such as a plumber or electrician.

If UPS drivers had plumber's cracks would they then be Skilled ?

 

[rod]

We pretty much agree on everything except the UPS Driver being a Skilled Trade job.
If it was, then drivers doing the same thing outside UPS would be making $90,000 / year plus extremely good benefits worth another $45,000.
Simple answer is they don't.
UPS Drivers make the money they do because of the power of collective organization and consequent collective bargaining.

A very powerful statement that is right on. To all those anti-union crybabies out there this statement lays it on the line. Hourly (and management) would not be where they are today financially and benefit wise if it wasn't for the Union doing their collective bargaining thing. Its not perfect but everyone is getting a much fairer share of the pie now than if there wasn't a Union. Unfortunately it now seems like UPS is no longer trying to keep their management personal ahead of hourly when it comes to medical benefits. Could it be only the tip of the iceberg.

 

[brown2bone]

Now that you got the low down from the "Hater", it is a tough decision. His points are pretty much on except as I offer my observations below.

Yes, you can negotiate ... I have seen new promotees get 5% or more by negotiating. Never saw 10%.
There are very few internal (Drivers) candidates who are willing to take the leap.
The 5,000 for insurance is at your current age. If prescription drugs become an issue as you age, you can easily pay 5K - 10K additional per year. There is no cap limit on management prescriptions but it maxes at $300 per Rx filled.
A center manager total compensation is more like $120K including MIP award.
Supervisors and center manager do not get Stock Options. They get a bonus in the form of stock of which 50% is delayed for 5 years. If the stock goes up in price after 5 years, this can be a nice "bump" in bonus.
Make sure you will get a pension in management ( I don't think you do).
Consider how marketable your bachelor's degree is.
Liberal arts degree equals ZERO, finance and technical degrees equals a plus.
Obviously, as a driver, you are not utilizing the investment in that degree whether for money or for type of career.

The aging and "beast of burden" aspect of the driver job is definitely a consideration but the stress and BS in management takes it's toll as well.
The fact that you are in supervision with UPS will most likely give you better opportunity to get a comparable job outside UPS. Most UPS management people I know that have left (with a degree) make more than they did at UPS.
Drivers typically do not , losing half their pay typically. The UPS Package Driver is not a Skilled Trade as suggested by Hater above. It is an unskilled manual labor job done at a very fast pace to justify the high compensation. If you leave UPS as a driver, your chance of getting job making caomparable is very slim.
Maybe in California or NYC but not in most of America.

2004 was dire period to be moving into management at UPS.
Opportunities will be increasing over the next 5 - 10 years.

Good luck with your choice.

Thank you for some solid advise. I have already made the choice now just ready to negotiate. Should I expect to get a 5-10% increase from what I am making not including bonus? Or do you think they try and make the bonus included?

My angle is to try and 10% above the 83k now not including bonus. This will basically me be braking even and making the same money. And the bonus will be my pension if I can save it.

I have heard about the pension being taking away but haven't received any knowledgable info from anyone in HR. I believe the cut off was somewhere around 2003-05? But was that time of service with company or you actually had to become a supervisor before then. Because I was hired in 2002 so would I get it or not? Anyone knowledgable about this as well?

Thanks again and always enjoy the bicker between those who think they know what's up and those who do!LOL

 

[airops]

I can't wait to hear how this turns out. Your expectations are way too high.

 

[brown2bone]

I can't wait to hear how this turns out. Your expectations are way too high.

Are you in management?

 

[1989]

What? No more mgmt pension? Was there a payout?

 

[brown2bone]

What? No more mgmt pension? Was there a payout?

Vested managers and sups still get one. I believe all new management do not. Someone please verify specifics though. If it's based on hire date with company or hire date as supervisor. ??!

 

[blkmamba]

Well ... if that low a threshold of credibility is accepted, then the term has no meaning.

When I think of a Skilled Trade, I think of a certified and licensed professional such as a plumber or electrician.

I completely agree, I thought it was comical that window washer can be considered a skilled trade.

 

[cosmo1]

I completely agree, I thought it was comical that window washer can be considered a skilled trade.

What about the guys that hang off the top of skyscrapers?

 

[Catatonic]

What about the guys that hang off the top of skyscrapers?

That was King Kong.

 

[Kicked Your Dog]

Well ... if that low a threshold of credibility is accepted, then the term has no meaning.

When I think of a Skilled Trade, I think of a certified and licensed professional such as a plumber or electrician.

Unlike the state/federal DOT certifications required of us to be professional drivers; moving regulated materials and hazmats across interstates and highways? You can split the hairs all you like. Call it what you will, my union trade is being a professional commercial driver and I am certified and licensed by DOT. Go pound sand.

 

[Kicked Your Dog]

Thank you for some solid advise. I have already made the choice now just ready to negotiate. Should I expect to get a 5-10% increase from what I am making not including bonus? Or do you think they try and make the bonus included?

My angle is to try and 10% above the 83k now not including bonus. This will basically me be braking even and making the same money. And the bonus will be my pension if I can save it.

I have heard about the pension being taking away but haven't received any knowledgable info from anyone in HR. I believe the cut off was somewhere around 2003-05? But was that time of service with company or you actually had to become a supervisor before then. Because I was hired in 2002 so would I get it or not? Anyone knowledgable about this as well?

Thanks again and always enjoy the bicker between those who think they know what's up and those who do!LOL

Look, you asked for info and info was given. Unfortunately, you are going to find out firsthand why nobody from management has spoken up and given you any factual numbers, then become resentful of the drivers who work for you and make more when all of your compensation is broken down by the hour. If you go into management do it for the job, and not the money, otherwise you're going to burn out. I think if you enjoy the "bickering" of people you asked for input, your on your way to being an on- supervisor. Your question was asked, but you never cared to listen. Go get your numbers. Good luck.

 

[airops]

Yes I am in management and yes your expectations are too high. I do not know of any supervisor at UPS that made more in their first year as a Supervisor than they did in their hourly position. Factor in your health care and you are in for a disappointment.

 

[brown2bone]

Thanks all, all advise taken and considered. Any I put on how pension works?

 

[Rico]

The fact that you are in supervision with UPS will most likely give you better opportunity to get a comparable job outside UPS. Most UPS management people I know that have left (with a degree) make more than they did at UPS.
Drivers typically do not , losing half their pay typically. The UPS Package Driver is not a Skilled Trade as suggested by Hater above. It is an unskilled manual labor job done at a very fast pace to justify the high compensation. If you leave UPS as a driver, your chance of getting job making caomparable is very slim.
Maybe in California or NYC but not in most of America.


Good luck with your choice.

When I was at UPS as a Driver, I had a BA in economics with a minor in computer science. I also had 4 years of previous supervisory experience. I was told by my Center Manager that there was no way in hell I would be considered for a supervisory position. SO UPS paid for me to get a second degree in Accounting, and I took and passed the CPA exam. When I left UPS I got a position that paid, roughly, the same starting salary as I was getting as a driver. I was told by the hiring manager that a large part of why I got offered the position was because of the work ethic that UPS drivers exhibit. Now granted, it did mean that I had to commute into Boston each day, as opposed to a 15 minute drive to Dover.

 

[Catatonic]

When I was at UPS as a Driver, I had a BA in economics with a minor in computer science. I also had 4 years of previous supervisory experience. I was told by my Center Manager that there was no way in hell I would be considered for a supervisory position. SO UPS paid for me to get a second degree in Accounting, and I took and passed the CPA exam. When I left UPS I got a position that paid, roughly, the same starting salary as I was getting as a driver. I was told by the hiring manager that a large part of why I got offered the position was because of the work ethic that UPS drivers exhibit. Now granted, it did mean that I had to commute into Boston each day, as opposed to a 15 minute drive to Dover.

The premise was that a UPS Driver would have a very hard time replacing their compensation in a "like" job - that is as a driver some other place.
Great for you ... but you would not have got this position unless you had "the" degree.
Same for management at UPS, one has to have a marketable degree or see you later.
Having worked at UPS gave you an edge because of the implied work ethic.

Having worked at UPS is a plus, regardless of the UPS position, when they go to apply for a new job.
When I retired last year I got a job offer in Photography and the "tiebreaker" was my UPS career.
Figure that one out.

 

[upschuck]

Having worked at UPS is a plus, regardless of the UPS position, when they go to apply for a new job.
When I retired last year I got a job offer in Photography and the "tiebreaker" was my UPS career.
Figure that one out.

You must have taken some good pictures of bad DR's and drivers not following methods.

 

[Catatonic]

You must have taken some good pictures of bad DR's and drivers not following methods.

I'm not a documentary photographer.

 

[rod]

I'm not a documentary photographer.

nudes?