PVD

UnconTROLLed

perfection
I don't disagree with you. And I get it sucks. I'm not trying to be a phallus when I say this: This is a business, and it needs to be run like one. UPS is always going to be looking to reduce windshield time, because windshield time is a cost with no revenue associated. While drivers get paid to drive and deliver, the customer only pays UPS to deliver. I have said for years, UPS has a simple business model that has allowed it to remain profitable if not competitive. It pays a total compensation package to its service providers that is way above anything the competition pays, and then it beats them like rented mules to get its money's worth. Not saying it's right, and I know it sucks (other than the paycheck) but that's how it is.


Hopefully it will not reduce helpers per say- Say instead of dropping a helper off with a handcart and a diad to walk off an apartment building, you met a PVD and gave them the apartment? or a small neighborhood (say the one with the gated communities and long driveways)? And if that PVD was a preloader who came out in his car and made PVD money for a few hours (as long as he could stay under ICC), that's a win-win isn't it? Anyway, that is what I would be looking to do if possible were I still in a center. And I'd give most of my drivers a jumper as well. Again, if possible.

From a center management perspective, I could also see this thing being a huge cluster. Peak drivers have always gotten the least challenging work, or cake work as you put it. Because with few exceptions, in my experience, that is all they can handle. So in my center, that usually meant giving Peak routes the business and pickups leaving the knowledgeable drivers to do the resi. I am not sure how some Joe Shmoe off the street is supposed to efficiently run off 20 resi stops out of a 4 door sedan. Even with an app telling him where to go.
I'm not nearly as grim as some reflections I have read here. I can't really disagree with anything you are saying. As long as union people are handling the work, I'm not completely against the IDEA of PVD's. But there must be some guidelines as to who gets what work, how routes are bid/broken down/split and so on.

Since 9.5 language is out the window, and UPS does enjoy the fact that it BELIEVES and make others believe that the contract is rubbish after Nov 1st, then maybe it's time for a ntl. langauage overhaul for Nov 1st- Jan 15th

But the only winners will be the workers, and not the union or company fat cats/shareholders, and I can't see that happening
 

OrioN

double tap o da horn dooshbag
Temporary / seasonal workers have to pay UNION initiation fees & dues?? Only used like tp then tossed away when volume drops?

Not worth it then... May as well become an Amazonian worker or goto FedEx for a temp job
 

BigUnionGuy

Got the T-Shirt
But to use them to replace a driver group? I could just imagine my center manager telling us one morning "Well, the Teamsters went out on strike so instead of loading the 18000 packages into the package cars, we are going to set out seperate piles for each of the 900 Dodge Grand Caravans that should be here shortly"


I almost choked on my coffee, reading that. :biggrin:
 

Benben

Working on a new degree, Masters in BS Detecting!
Temporary / seasonal workers have to pay UNION initiation fees & dues??

They do NOT have to pay into the union in Kansas! Let me make that perfectly clear! My question is does the company make H&W and pension payments for the hours temps and PVD's work?!?!

SOMEONE please answer with facts!
 

Bubblehead

My Senior Picture
They do NOT have to pay into the union in Kansas! Let me make that perfectly clear! My question is does the company make H&W and pension payments for the hours temps and PVD's work?!?!

SOMEONE please answer with facts!
Is there anybody else out there from Kansas???
upload_2017-10-27_14-54-58.gif
 

BigUnionGuy

Got the T-Shirt
They do NOT have to pay into the union in Kansas! Let me make that perfectly clear! My question is does the company make H&W and pension payments for the hours temps and PVD's work?!?!

SOMEONE please answer with facts!


If they are not seniority employees, why would the company be obligated

to make H&W payments and contributions to the pension ?


You answered your own question.



-Bug-
 

35years

Gravy route
Rural will be the first targeted PVD volume. Do the high seniority rural drivers have the right to that work before PVDs? Who determines what part of a rural route gets cut to the PVDs? Should cut drivers be able to claim that excess rural area not done by the bid driver? Should the PVDs only get what regular drivers (bid and utility) don't want?

Management has indicated the volume will be dropped to PODs/storage so regular drivers will not be handing the pkgs over to PVDs. The job opening adds by UPS say that PVDs may have to start their shift away from the UPS facility.

How could this not be seen as setting up a parallel workforce?

Who makes the package drop to the PODs? Who sorts the pkgs at the PODs? Who loads the PVD's vehicles? How many contract violations would this generate?
 

Mugarolla

Light 'em up!
Do the high seniority rural drivers have the right to that work before PVDs?

Nope.

Who determines what part of a rural route gets cut to the PVDs?

UPS.

Should cut drivers be able to claim that excess rural area not done by the bid driver?

Nope.

Should the PVDs only get what regular drivers (bid and utility) don't want?

Nope.

This is no different than putting in a peak base car or two in.

UPS decides what goes on the base cars.

The job opening adds by UPS say that PVDs may have to start their shift away from the UPS facility.

We have satellite facilities. They do the same thing.

Jumpers also start on route.

Nothing new here.

How could this not be seen as setting up a parallel workforce?

No different than a driver dropping off packages to a seasonal at a mall with a hand truck, or a retirement facility with golf carts.

Nothing new here.

It has been going on for years.

Who makes the package drop to the PODs?

Probably a package driver, maybe a feeder driver.

Who sorts the pkgs at the PODs?

The PVD.

Who loads the PVD's vehicles?

The PVD.

How many contract violations would this generate?

0.

The PVD's are no more than a UPS seasonal employee that just drive their own vehicle instead of a brown truck, or a Ryder, U-Haul, Penske or Budget rental.

They will probably also reduce the need for jumpers to a degree.

I am not fond of the idea, but nothing in the contract stops them.

I said before, we need to focus our energy on making sure that these PVD's remain seasonal.
 

Observer

Well-Known Member
Union dues are deducted from seasonals in Indianapolis, IN hubs. Had a friend who was a temp peak at their big hub and they showed me their paycheck- this was peak of 2014. They were told that since the contract was prior to Indiana becoming a right to work state - they had the right to deduct it. No other explanation was given. Since it takes 30 days for seniority - my friend knew that even if they had went to the union hall - the dues would still be taken out. In other words "taxation without representation." Sound familiar? So it varies - some have dues taken out as seasonals and other locations don't. To frustrate my friend - "they forget to put in their hours for the first week and just added them to the next week." So this is why finding people for peak is horrible. Plus FEdEx and Amazon are paying 2.62/hour and up more in Indianapolis, IN. All you have to do is look at history and see all the companies that are no longer OR having trouble retaining employees even as temps. NY Times had an expose about Amazon a few years ago. The line that gets me is when there is an accident - all big companies state - Safety is our top concern! - yeah right!
 
A

Article 3

Guest
OK. first your part in bold - displace employees that want to drive seasonally? I honestly don't know what that means. You can't mean drivers, because drivers will all be driving during peak and are not seasonal. Do you mean insiders? That makes no sense because you cannot have the insiders working as seasonal drivers because you need them to run the inside operations. Also you are completely missing the obvious point that if they are hired by the company under the terms of the bargaining agreement, they are by definition bargaining unit employees, so you are claiming that bargaining unit employees will be displacing bargaining unit employees. Or you're saying temporary bargaining unit employees are displacing inside employees who want to be peak drivers but can't (except in very limited circumstances and with limited hours), and never have been, because they are needed inside?
You do bring up a good point though - could an insider who fits the bill for this position as far as car, insurance, DOT etc. double shift part time as a PVD like they can as a jumper? As long as the hours fit and they did not violate the ICC hours rules I don't see why not?

Second part - Get over myself. Solid advice. Check. I am officially over myself. I am neither lying, looking for anyone to feel sorry for me (I left UPS 2 peaks ago and have a much better gig now) nor am I "lashing out". I am merely engaging in conversation and debate regarding this interesting new seasonal tool UPS is trying this year, and I disagree with your point of view about it. Tell me, do you often feel that people who challenge your point of view are "lashing out"? That is probably not healthy. (and I am perfectly willing to admit that my engaging in debate about UPS operations 2 years after leaving said UPS operations, is far from healthy on my part, but that is my particular cross to bear)
What I am saying is that driving school(s) are maxed out for true UPS employees who wanted to gain driving experience and earn a better wage.

PVDs are temps, whether they pay dues or not, and since the company puts out their own calendar every year they could flip through the pages and be enlightened that November and December are still coming up and therefore hire more inside employees to help cover the inside work, on time, thus giving inside UPS employees the opportunity to drive at a much better hourly rate plus getting driving experience that can be beneficial to them (and the company) down the road.

PVDs will be gone I hope in 8 wks (not 10) and their experience benefits nothing for the company down the road.

Your scenario glosses over the issue I'm talking about...
UPS employees given the opportunity to do bargaining unit work. PVDs, in mass, are not UPS employees but they'll get the work that is syphoned away from part time UPS employees since the company didn't send more to driving school earlier, and didn't make room to accommodate them before hand. It is obvious the company predestined the PVD issue to replace inside workers who would've driven earlier this year.

And as for your attitude, yes, you need to adjust it.
 

Mugarolla

Light 'em up!
What I am saying is that driving school(s) are maxed out for true UPS employees who wanted to gain driving experience and earn a better wage.

Not around here.

PVDs are temp

Yes they are.

hire more inside employees to help cover the inside work, on time, thus giving inside UPS employees the opportunity to drive at a much better hourly rate plus getting driving experience that can be beneficial to them (and the company) down the road.

A lot of these part time employees have second jobs and do not want to drive just for a month.

PVDs will be gone I hope in 8 wks

Me too.

UPS employees given the opportunity to do bargaining unit work.

OK. Let's use your example. Some PTers go driving instead of PVD's.

Who does the "bargaining unit" work of these PTers. Oh, that's right...seasonals.

PVDs, in mass, are not UPS employees but they'll get the work that is syphoned away from part time UPS employees since the company didn't send more to driving school earlier,

Seasonals are bargaining unit employees per the contract.

And again, who does the work of these PTers that go driving? Seasonals.

It is obvious the company predestined the PVD issue to replace inside workers who would've driven earlier this year.

What do you mean inside workers who would have driven earlier this year?

I understand where you are coming from. Give the insider more money and experience during peak instead of the seasonal, but that theory can backfire, very badly for the inside employee.
 

brownIEman

Well-Known Member
What I am saying is that driving school(s) are maxed out for true UPS employees who wanted to gain driving experience and earn a better wage.

PVDs are temps, whether they pay dues or not, and since the company puts out their own calendar every year they could flip through the pages and be enlightened that November and December are still coming up and therefore hire more inside employees to help cover the inside work, on time, thus giving inside UPS employees the opportunity to drive at a much better hourly rate plus getting driving experience that can be beneficial to them (and the company) down the road.

PVDs will be gone I hope in 8 wks (not 10) and their experience benefits nothing for the company down the road.

Your scenario glosses over the issue I'm talking about...
UPS employees given the opportunity to do bargaining unit work. PVDs, in mass, are not UPS employees but they'll get the work that is syphoned away from part time UPS employees since the company didn't send more to driving school earlier, and didn't make room to accommodate them before hand. It is obvious the company predestined the PVD issue to replace inside workers who would've driven earlier this year.

And as for your attitude, yes, you need to adjust it.

I agree that it would be good to give permanent insiders the chance to go driving. You yourself are saying driving classes are full. Wouldn't that tend to indicate UPS is doing just that?
It is a nice thought to cover all of the delivery with permanent UPSers but there is just too much work at peak for that. Even the union recognizes this which is why they agree to seasonal drivers in the first place.
 

UnconTROLLed

perfection
OK. first your part in bold - displace employees that want to drive seasonally? I honestly don't know what that means. You can't mean drivers, because drivers will all be driving during peak and are not seasonal. Do you mean insiders? That makes no sense because you cannot have the insiders working as seasonal drivers because you need them to run the inside operations
For the record, you are incorrect about insiders and driving. Our inside people sign the list and become seasonal covers; also PT supervisors go driving during peak in our region, to become FT sups. I don't know exactly how many insiders are seasonal covers (peak, vacations) but quite a few are lost from the inside to go drive.
 
Top