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>Defends the lives of innocent children
>Says an innocent child should be murdered because of the very loosely alleged sins of the parent
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>Says an innocent child should be murdered because of the very loosely alleged sins of the parent
Fred's Myth
Nonhyphenated American
You go first.
BrownFlush
Woke Racist Reigning Ban King
You need new material.
You say this every time a newbie steps on the scene.
Heresy has plenty of fresh lines out there.
FromOffTheStreets
Well-Known Member
What do these verses mean?
And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed. Acts 13:48
No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day. John 6:44
For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified. Romans 8:29-30
El Correcto
god is dead
Good good.
El Correcto
god is dead
We can’t answer how the universe initially formed and people need answers apparently, so let’s invent a third party that created the universe that creates even more unanswered questions!
What a stupid premise.
What a stupid premise.
BrownFlush
Woke Racist Reigning Ban King
Well at first glance, I'd say you believe or wondering if predestination is taught in the Bible. Or, you don't believe it is, and want to know why these verses are used to prove it, because they sure sound like it. Good old John Calvin.
The appointment in Acts 13:48 first happened in Acts10. Cornelius was the first Gentile to be converted to Christianity.
“Heart circumcised” Gentiles were to be welcomed into the spiritual kingdom( the church) that the Jews (first) were added to in Acts 2. Peter learned that “in every nation he that feareth Him, and worketh righteousness, is acceptable to Him” (Acts 10:35). God sought men who were “appointed to eternal life”. The gospel/salvation would now be those who were susceptible to the “election of grace,” whether Jew or Gentile (Rom. 11:1-7).
How does God draw a man to him? We all get the same deal. John 6:45 shows how.
Men are drawn to God by hearing and learning, teaching from His word. The Spirit draws us to God through the word He revealed. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.(Rom.10:17)
How does God draw a man to him? We all get the same deal. John 6:45 shows how.
Men are drawn to God by hearing and learning, teaching from His word. The Spirit draws us to God through the word He revealed. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.(Rom.10:17)
"them that love God" (v28)and "them who are called." Those who love God are those who keep His commandments (Jn. 14:15, 21, 23); the call which God gives to men is through the gospel (2 Thess. 2:14). We are called by the gospel.The passage is not discussing some men who receive some kind of secret divine call in some mysterious way. It is talking about those who have heard the call of the gospel and obeyed it.
God, before he created the world looked ahead and knew that certain persons would obey His word and that others would not. God (All knowing) foreknew exactly who would and who would not obey His word. But, that foreknowledge is not predetermination.
Always been amazing to me. God to foreknow what a man with free will is going to do. He gave us free will. We choose. But, He knows what we are going to choose and knows whether we are going to be lost or live eternally with Him.
So, it's not a problem in admitting that God knew before the world ever began all persons who would be saved and all who would be lost.
Here is what God predetermined: "for whom He did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son" (v. 29). God predetermined before the world began that those who would be obedient to His will would be conformed to the image of His Son, that they would receive the same resurrection body as His Son received.
Eph. 1 Does not teach that God predetermined before the foundation of the world to save a given individual and to damn another. It explains that God chose His plan for the redemption of man would be through Jesus Christ and the blessings which He would grant to men through that Christ.
Salvation is up to you. God has done his part. It's your choice. What will you do with the gospel?
FromOffTheStreets
Well-Known Member
Romans 9
18 Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.
19 One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?”
20 But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’ ”
21 Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use?
22 What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction?
BrownFlush
Woke Racist Reigning Ban King
Ok. Point?
You a Calvinist?
God does not arbitrarily harden one, or choose one over another in the matter of salvation. Whether we obtain mercy or are hardened, depends on our choice. "He that covereth his transgression shall not prosper; but who so confesseth and forsaketh them shall obtain mercy" (Prov. 28:13).
Jesus died for ALL. ALL gets to choose to follow Him or reject Him.
ALL will reap everlasting life or everlasting torment as a consequence of THEIR OWN CHOOSING.
"Choose you this day who you will serve..... Joshua 24:15
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FromOffTheStreets
Well-Known Member
I only used this system (calvinism) to show you how groups gravitate to certain passages & construct their entire doctrine on them & dismiss passages that conflict with their doctrine. They build an idol out of their chosen doctrine.
Prosperity preachers - SJW's, charismatics - cessationists, calvinist - Armenian & so on all have passages that speak to their point of view & yet each view is opposed to the other.
BrownFlush
Woke Racist Reigning Ban King
Hey, thanks.
I was just thinking of questions to ask you to prove predestination is a false doctrine. Saved me some time.
One can make the Bible say what ever one wants it to say for whatever reason. (Always believed this way, If Ma and Pa believed it it's good enough for me, my preacher told me it was right, God loves me so much he will allow me to live this way no matter what the Bible says, .. I just can't believe that because I want to believe this, etc.)
But, because that suits you and the way you want it, does not always suit God and the way he wants it. The end result is, you believe something that is wrong. You believe false doctrine. You believe a lie. The end result of false teachers and those that believe them and their false teaching will not be pleasant.
There are rules (facts)of interpretation that must be in play. Patterns, commands, examples, inferences all play are part in letting the Bible speak for itself. It really is, it's own best interpreter.
Jesus appealed to the common man. The common man has been given the ability to understand it. I contend the problem many times is not understanding it. It's accepting it.
When you study the Bible, expect to understand it. God says that it is written that when you read "you may understand" (Eph. 3:4). If we understand the Bible at all, we understand it alike.
We may misunderstand it differently, but we do not understand it differently.
FromOffTheStreets
Well-Known Member
It isn't any more of a false doctrine than baptism = salvation. In fact, in all my years of studying many different Christian ideologies, your the 1st guy that's said this
FromOffTheStreets
Well-Known Member
When you believe you earn your salvation there is no room for God's Sovereignty
Actually it's God's sovereignty when you submit to his will and obey his commandments.
El Correcto
god is dead
No that is you submitting to the culture you grew up in.
A culture based on submitting to God's will and obeying his commandments.
BrownFlush
Woke Racist Reigning Ban King
Do you believe I believe this?
Which part of any of my comments or scriptures that I used, misled you to think I believe this about myself or anyone else earning salvation?
I'll be glad to take care of that if you would point me where.
No one earns or does anything that deserves salvation.
"Each of us has become like something unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all wither like a leaf, and our iniquities carry us away like the wind." -Isaiah 64:6
"He saved us, not by the righteous deeds we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of new birth and renewal by the Holy Spirit" - Titus 3:5 ( It think I posted this passage before discussing what bible baptism is)
BrownFlush
Woke Racist Reigning Ban King
Uh.. I'm not alone.
But, does how many people who believe that faith alone saves make that belief right? I really don't care how many people believe what. I want to be on board with what the bible actually teaches that makes a saved person a saved person.
The passages that I have produced about baptism have not been put forth for discussion or challenged from anyone.
@Fred's Myth made an absolute mess out of John 3:5. I countered with scripture, heard nothing else.
Discuss the passages. Point in them where it is not teaching that baptism is necessary for salvation. Please. If I'm not right about it, trust me, I will stop believing it, repent and ask God to forgive me.
Baptism ONLY does not bring salvation. I've said this. But, it plays a necessary (essential)part in God's plan of salvation(you being saved)
By the way, Peter disagrees with your comment. He's an Apostle
He got his instruction from God's Holy Spirit what to write down , preach, and teach. Not Christian ideologies.The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us... 1 Peter 3:21
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For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
1 Corinthians 1:17 KJV
1 Corinthians 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. | King James Version (KJV) | Download The Bible App Now
For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
bible.com
BrownFlush
Woke Racist Reigning Ban King
A good passage to recognize text and not just isolate a verse is 1 Cor. 1:17... Saved by "faith alone" folks often use this verse in order to prove that baptism is not a requirement for salvation.
The purpose of baptism is not the object being considered in the context of the passage.
There were “contentions” among some at Corinth, some saying “I am of Paul,” or “I am of Apollos,” or “I am of Cephas,” or “I am of Christ.”
Paul understood that the validity of baptism was not determined by who does the baptizing, and he did not want to be a part of the partyism, or the factions, or be recognized by a certain group as "theirs"
Also, Paul’s principle mission was “to preach the gospel” — it was not to baptize.
He had baptized “Crispus and Gaius” and “the household of Stephanas,” but he was thankful that he had personally baptized only a few at Corinth. Why? “lest anyone should say that I had baptized in my own name.”
Those at Corinth, when the church was established there, obeyed the gospel. They had heard, believed, and were baptized (Acts 18:8)
But, even in the context of 1 Corinthians 1:17 Paul revealed that in order for one to be “of Christ” (a Christian) two things had to occur: (1) Christ had to be crucified for that person, and (2) that person had to be baptized in “the name” of Christ.
So, the seven verses before 1 Corinthians 1:17 gives the context for that verse, and they also necessarily infer that one must be baptized.
The purpose of baptism is not the object being considered in the context of the passage.
There were “contentions” among some at Corinth, some saying “I am of Paul,” or “I am of Apollos,” or “I am of Cephas,” or “I am of Christ.”
Paul understood that the validity of baptism was not determined by who does the baptizing, and he did not want to be a part of the partyism, or the factions, or be recognized by a certain group as "theirs"
Also, Paul’s principle mission was “to preach the gospel” — it was not to baptize.
He had baptized “Crispus and Gaius” and “the household of Stephanas,” but he was thankful that he had personally baptized only a few at Corinth. Why? “lest anyone should say that I had baptized in my own name.”
Those at Corinth, when the church was established there, obeyed the gospel. They had heard, believed, and were baptized (Acts 18:8)
But, even in the context of 1 Corinthians 1:17 Paul revealed that in order for one to be “of Christ” (a Christian) two things had to occur: (1) Christ had to be crucified for that person, and (2) that person had to be baptized in “the name” of Christ.
So, the seven verses before 1 Corinthians 1:17 gives the context for that verse, and they also necessarily infer that one must be baptized.
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