Religion

[FromOffTheStreets]

OK, that clears that up but Nero was the emperor until 68 A.D. and was known for his terrible treatment of Christians. But if Jesus died in 33 A.D. and John was his apostle and Domitian's reign ended 63 years later in A.D. 96 then how old was John when he wrote Revelations? They had him laboring in the mines on Patmos. Doesn't sound like a man in at least his late 80's to mid 90's.

Kind of.
I could post an article from a different group called preterists laying out how Revelation was written pre 70 A.D. like you mentioned. They claim that revelation prophesied the events leading up to & including the destruction of the temple.

There is a group called amillenialsts that believe we are in the "millennial reign" right now.

Post millennial people believe that Christians must conquer the earth for Christ before he can return.

Historical views of revelation believe that the book lays out history from that time until the end.

Pre millennial believe that the earth gets worse & worse until the great tribulation, then Jesus comes back & rules the earth for 1000 years.

Everyone of these groups provide some pretty compelling arguments. I think it's good to crawl out of your box & learn to master the thoughts & ideas of all of them.

 

[BrownFlush]

Pre millennial believe that the earth gets worse & worse until the great tribulation, then Jesus comes back & rules the earth for 1000 years.

Totally contrary and inconsistent with all the other books in the OT & NT. This position has no idea of what the church is, the kingdom, the eternal plan of God, the second coming (what Paul Paul, Peter &Jesus said), judgement, Matthew 24, etc.

Revelation 13
15 And it was allowed to give breath to the image of the beast, so that the image of the beast might even speak and might cause those who would not worship the image of the beast to be slain. 16 Also it causes all, both small and great, both rich and poor, both free and slave, to be marked on the right hand or the forehead, 17 so that no one can buy or sell unless he has the mark, that is, the name of the beast or the number of its name. 18 This calls for wisdom: let the one who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man, and his number is 666.

I have been back and forth on the date of the writing of the Revelation.(Looking at you and Van's comments) Some scholars have it before the destruction of Jerusalem (70 AD) others after. It would change the Caesars but not much else with what was going on that the churches needed to hear.
One of the reasons figurative language was used was to protect the writer as well as the receiver. They were killing Christians. There was a great war going on. The greatest, most powerful world kingdom ever known, Rome, was trying to destroy the greatest Spiritual Kingdom, the church.
One of the reasons John wrote the Revelation was because Christians needed to know, Jesus and His Kingdom would be forever. No matter how many Christians were slaughtered, marked as one, starved out, The Kingdom they were in, even if they died for it, would never be destroyed.

15-18
The Roman hierarchy had the power to kill anyone who refused to confess Caesar as God.
Imagine being a Christian and being put in that position. Confess Christ as your Lord or Caesar. If you said Christ, immediate death
Besides that, living in a society where idolatry is rampant and false worship is everywhere.

More tomorrow..been a long day for Flush. Sweet Dreams 666

 

[El Correcto]

The founders had many personal writings expressing their belief in Christianity. As much as atheists want to say they were deists it just wasn't so. Christianity permeated every level of society back then from the coast to the frontier. The things that go on today they couldn't even fathom let alone tolerate. You're kidding yourself (yet again).

Didn’t say the founders were deist. Said the limited government they created was. Point out Jesus or the Christian god in the constitution, the declaration, etc. you can’t it’s not there.

Yes and nonsense those immoral piece of Christian’s we’re doing at the time wouldn’t be considered okay today. What is your point? Mine is morality is improving, you just want to cry about everyone not being delusional.

 

[FromOffTheStreets]

I have been back and forth on the date of the writing of the Revelation.(Looking at you and Van's comments) Some scholars have it before the destruction of Jerusalem (70 AD) others after. It would change the Caesars but not much else with what was going on that the churches needed to hear.

It's actually a huge deal if your a preterist. If it was written after 70 a.d. , their entire eschatology is gone.
They explain away the evidences like I posted in that article because it would destroy their viewpoint.

I want to know what your viewpoint is

 

[newolddude]

 

[BrownFlush]

It's actually a huge deal

Not really.
I don't even considered them. Paul takes care of the preterist doctrine as well the premillennialism and others long before Revelation. Whatever your take is, it doesn't change what is happening in Revelation. One of the ways false doctrine is proved is by consistency or inconsistency of scripture.
If one is wrong before he to gets to Revelation about salvation, the church, the Lord's return, etc., he'll bring wrong trying to fit his wrong positions into Revelation. The result is another whacked out interpretation of the book.
The fruit produced of false teaching is more false teaching.

I want to know what your viewpoint is

I lean toward the time of the writing being somewhere around 96 AD.
Domitian renewed the persecution that Nero had started.

 

[vantexan]

Didn’t say the founders were deist. Said the limited government they created was. Point out Jesus or the Christian god in the constitution, the declaration, etc. you can’t it’s not there.

Yes and nonsense those immoral piece of Christian’s we’re doing at the time wouldn’t be considered okay today. What is your point? Mine is morality is improving, you just want to cry about everyone not being delusional.

The Constitution they set up was so that many different viewpoints could coexist without one dominating everyone else. I think they did an admirable job. Morality isn't improving. Freedom to be immoral has improved for people like you. Appears now to a push to not stigmatize paedophilia. All of this started with gay marriage. The dam has broken and every category of immorality now wants recognition and rights to be open about it.

 

[UnionStrong]

The Constitution they set up was so that many different viewpoints could coexist without one dominating everyone else. I think they did an admirable job. Morality isn't improving. Freedom to be immoral has improved for people like you. Appears now to a push to not stigmatize paedophilia. All of this started with gay marriage. The dam has broken and every category of immorality now wants recognition and rights to be open about it.

Perverts are in charge

 

[BrownFlush]

@FromOffTheStreets
I don't like jumping in the middle of a book and giving meaning to a passage. But, I have found that most "faith alone" denominations, once you're "saved", they start hitting the 666 deal and spouting stuff about headlines of today meaning this and that fulfills that in Revelation.(Ever notice how that has changed so many times over the years?) My oh my stuff, wring your hands, preaching confusion because the preachers don't know what they are talking about, much less their audience.... just like you did. (Forget the passages about salvation, what is 666?)

16-18
The beast(Rome) marked his own people. God marked his people in Chapter 7 to show that they are his, the beast marks his people here. Both reasons are the same, to show they are theirs.
God knows his people. Satan also knows his people. Everyone on earth then and everyone on earth today is wearing someone's mark. Each of us either belongs to God or to Satan. Each of us is either in the power of darkness or "in the kingdom of God's dear son" (Colossians 1:13)
All sorts of distinctions exist. We base them on race, wealth, politics, etc. But, really only one distinction matters. Is one in Christ or out of Christ? That's the distinction. Whose mark were they wearing? Whose are we wearing?
In 17, no one could buy or sell without the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name.
In chapter 2 and 3 you can see the economic persecution the churches were going through from the trade guilds in Rome. They required you to confess Caesar as Lord to buy, sell or trade. You were no patriot of Rome if you didn't and you suffered hardship because of it. They were faced with a daily choice, Caesar or Christ.
18 Remember, keep your figurative language glasses on. That means what is written many times represents something else.
Revelation is an apocalypse. The writings are characterized by imagery, symbols and signs.
Briefly, (I'm supposed to give you the meaning without any background, or leading up to "the" verse of all time to many)
In chap 13, John saw two beasts (one coming up out of the sea, v. 1, and the other coming up out of the earth, v. 11); both are allies of Satan. Keeping with the symbolic use of numbers "six" represents that which is evil. Tripled it would be intensified evil. Being short of the number seven (a symbol of perfection), the number 666 also shows failure or doom.
"The number of the beast stands for the complete and total failure of all human systems and efforts antagonistic to God and His Christ"- Homer Hailey, Gospel Preacher

 

[BrownFlush]

The denominational mindset:
John 3:16.... Skip the rest.... Revelation!

 

[Dum preloader]

Only the Lord knows how thankful I am that I have to answer to Him and not arrogant men.

 

[Dum preloader]

"You play the man. You keep it moving and let them disagree"

 

[Dum preloader]

@BrownFlush

Let's be honest about a few things here. I may disagree with you but I'll admit you are extremely intelligent when it comes to the Bible. You are also extremely arrogant and hard headed. You spend a great deal of time on here. I don't see much preaching of the saving grace of Christ. You are looking for debates and any opportunity to one up brothers while also tormenting already tormented people. You are causing great deals of discouragement while you laugh and claim the problem is that "we can't handle the truth". The truth is that you are not the arbiter of truth. I'll leave you with a few Bible verses and... Unfortunately... I believe it is now appropriate to add you to ignore. I don't see there being another option. Whatever the truth is, I'll pray that the Lord ( the arbiter of truth) shows us where we are both wrong. Goodbye brownflush.


“Behold, I am sending you out as sheep in the midst of wolves, so be wise as serpents and innocent as doves.
Matthew 10:16 ESV


“Why do you call me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do what I tell you?
Luke 6:46 ESV


But the one who did not know, and did what deserved a beating, will receive a light beating. Everyone to whom much was given, of him much will be required, and from him to whom they entrusted much, they will demand the more.
Luke 12:48 ESV

And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them inthe name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Matthew 28:18‭-‬19 ESV

 

[Fred's Myth]

@BrownFlush

Let's be honest about a few things here. I may disagree with you but I'll admit you are extremely intelligent when it comes to the Bible. You are also extremely arrogant and hard headed. You spend a great deal of time on here. I don't see much preaching of the saving grace of Christ. You are looking for debates and any opportunity to one up brothers while also tormenting already tormented people. You are causing great deals of discouragement while you laugh and claim the problem is that "we can't handle the truth". The truth is that you are not the arbiter of truth. I'll leave you with a few Bible verses and... Unfortunately... I believe it is now appropriate to add you to ignore. I don't see there being another option. Whatever the truth is, I'll pray that the Lord ( the arbiter of truth) shows us where we are both wrong. Goodbye brownflush.


“Behold, I am sending you out as sheep in the midst of wolves, so be wise as serpents and innocent as doves.
Matthew 10:16 ESV


“Why do you call me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do what I tell you?
Luke 6:46 ESV


But the one who did not know, and did what deserved a beating, will receive a light beating. Everyone to whom much was given, of him much will be required, and from him to whom they entrusted much, they will demand the more.
Luke 12:48 ESV

And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them inthe name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Matthew 28:18‭-‬19 ESV

Mark 10:38 — New Living Translation (NLT)​

38 But Jesus said to them, “You don’t know what you are asking! Are you able to drink from the bitter cup of suffering I am about to drink? Are you able to be baptized with the baptism of suffering I must be baptized with?”

Luke 12:50-New Living Translation
​

50 I have a terrible baptism of suffering ahead of me, and I am under a heavy burden until it is accomplished.

I would say that there is more than one kind of Baptism, based on Jesus' words.

 

[BrownFlush]

Mark 10:38 — New Living Translation (NLT)​

38 But Jesus said to them, “You don’t know what you are asking! Are you able to drink from the bitter cup of suffering I am about to drink? Are you able to be baptized with the baptism of suffering I must be baptized with?”

Luke 12:50-New Living Translation​

​

50 I have a terrible baptism of suffering ahead of me, and I am under a heavy burden until it is accomplished.

I would say that there is more than one kind of Baptism, based on Jesus' words.

Yep. There sure is.
But this one, The one baptism Paul is talking about Eph.4:5 --"There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call—one Lord, one faith, one baptism" Is referring to the baptism that makes everyone a Christian, including those at Ephesus. They responded to the gospel like everyone in the NT.
The Bible teaches WATER baptism is the only one for the remission of sins.

 

[BrownFlush]

@BrownFlush

Let's be honest about a few things here. I may disagree with you but I'll admit you are extremely intelligent when it comes to the Bible. You are also extremely arrogant and hard headed. You spend a great deal of time on here. I don't see much preaching of the saving grace of Christ. You are looking for debates and any opportunity to one up brothers while also tormenting already tormented people. You are causing great deals of discouragement while you laugh and claim the problem is that "we can't handle the truth". The truth is that you are not the arbiter of truth. I'll leave you with a few Bible verses and... Unfortunately... I believe it is now appropriate to add you to ignore. I don't see there being another option. Whatever the truth is, I'll pray that the Lord ( the arbiter of truth) shows us where we are both wrong. Goodbye brownflush.

Is this a fake hang up again?

The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge;
fools despise wisdom and instruction.- Proverbs 1:7

 

[FromOffTheStreets]

The denominational mindset:
John 3:16.... Skip the rest.... Revelation!

There might be a little truth to that in many places. Bible teaching based places aren't like that though.

Every denomination has true believers & false believers within their sanctuaries.

However, you have the secret salvation sauce & everyone else is going to hell from what I'm hearing

 

[FromOffTheStreets]

But, I have found that most "faith alone" denominations, once you're "saved", they start hitting the 666 deal and spouting stuff about headlines of today meaning this and that fulfills that in Revelation.(Ever notice how that has changed so many times over the years?)

Most definitely, but it's mainly charismatic TV preachers who are mainly Armenian & believe you can lose your salvation.

 

[BrownFlush]

There might be a little truth to that in many places. Bible teaching based places aren't like that though.

Every denomination has true believers & false believers within their sanctuaries.

However, you have the secret salvation sauce & everyone else is going to hell from what I'm hearing

Uh-oh...you went personal.
You know what they say... when ya got nothin', ya go per...
Why?
Which comment said everyone is headed to hell? The salvation is no secret. It's in plain sight with words written that are meant to be understood. Nothing but scripture and commentary.
Am I become you enemy(already?)because I tell you the truth?
I thought you wanted to hear what I thought about verses in the Bible?
You backing out?

 

[BrownFlush]

Most definitely, but it's mainly charismatic TV preachers who are mainly Armenian & believe you can lose your salvation.

Never watch TV.
You believe the Bible teaches once saved always saved?