Religion

[BrownFlush]

What does Romans 10:17 mean? | BibleRef.com

So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ. - What is the meaning of Romans 10:17?

www.bibleref.com

Although the Bible is not authoritative it can be very used for teaching.

The verse you referenced is speaking of the Word made Flesh, Christ, not the Bible.

It's been fun.. again. You take care now.
No more dust on my shoes are left for you.

 

[BrownFlush]

Psalm 139:16 Your eyes saw my substance, being yet unformed.
And in Your book they all were written,
The days fashioned for me,
When as yet there were none of them

Acts 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of the Lord. And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.

John 17:9 "I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours.

Romans 9:15 For He says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion.” 16 So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy. 21 Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?

Virtually everyone In the Bible was sovereignly chosen by God. Plucked out from humanity to do his will. Noah, Abraham, Moses, Isaiah, David, Mary, the 12, Paul. Even Jonah who tried to go against his will was subdued.

Are you saying in these verses they were saved apart from their own will?

 

[Fred's Myth]

Is the gift the Holy Spirit? Or, is the gift a gift given by the Holy Spirit.

Well, Peter said of, not from. Sounds pretty cut and dried.

And the Holy Spirit gives multiple gifts: wisdom, understanding, counsel, fortitude, knowledge, piety, and fear of the Lord.

Looks like you missed out on both.

 

[BrownFlush]

Looks like you never read Acts 2.

I have those gifts. The Holy Spirit is in me. They are gifts from Him.
How he is in me and how I acquired these gifts from him I have shown already in scripture that you refuse to address.
the gift of the Holy Spirit ..is right. That gift he gives is salvation. Context demands the gift is salvation.

I'm going to work for Farmer Brown today. When I'm done, I will receive the gift of Farmer Brown. It's his gift to give.
No one would think Farmer Brown is the gift.
The gift is what Farmer Brown gives me.

 

[Fred's Myth]

Looks like you never read Acts 2.

I have those gifts. The Holy Spirit is in me. They are gifts from Him.
How he is in me and how I acquired these gifts from him I have shown already in scripture that you refuse to address.
the gift of the Holy Spirit ..is right. That gift he gives is salvation. Context demands the gift is salvation.

I'm going to work for Farmer Brown today. When I'm done, I will receive the gift of Farmer Brown. It's his gift to give.
No one would think Farmer Brown is the gift.
The gift is what Farmer Brown gives me.

Is Farmer Brown your god?

 

[Fred's Myth]

Looks like you never read Acts 2.

I have those gifts. The Holy Spirit is in me. They are gifts from Him.
How he is in me and how I acquired these gifts from him I have shown already in scripture that you refuse to address.
the gift of the Holy Spirit ..is right. That gift he gives is salvation. Context demands the gift is salvation.

I'm going to work for Farmer Brown today. When I'm done, I will receive the gift of Farmer Brown. It's his gift to give.
No one would think Farmer Brown is the gift.
The gift is what Farmer Brown gives me.

Hebrews 4:12​

“For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.”

You know God intellectually, but have not experienced Him. Open yourself to the experience of God, and then you will truly understand His Word.

 

[BrownFlush]

Is Farmer Brown your god?

I'm sorry you're not capable of discussion.

Ecclesiastes 3:13. The "gift of God" is
John 4:10. The "gift of God" is
Romans 6:23. The "gift of God" is
1 Corinthians 7:7. The "gift of God" is
Ephesians 2:8. The "gift of God" is

In which one of these text is God personally the gift?

 

[BrownFlush]

You know God intellectually, but have not experienced Him. Open yourself to the experience of God, and then you will truly understand His Word.

You mean this blow...

Spirit's root meaning is best understood as breath. We communicate by manipulating our breath. God communicates by breathing His Spirit.So, when God communicates, or answers, your prayers, He is uttering His Holy Spirit to you.

This blow is without any support from Scripture.

If you can receive an utterance from God without feeling anything, you have no faith.

I have received the utterance from God. The Holy Spirit speaks to me everyday through the instrument of His Word.
Feeling? Faith? If being emotional about what the word of God actually teaches is a measure of one's faith on the feeling scale, I'm good.
You might have a zeal for God, but it's far from what God teaches.
"Brothers and sisters, my heart’s desire and my prayer to God for them is for their salvation. For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge. For not knowing about God’s righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God." Romans 10: 1-3

 

[FromOffTheStreets]

Predestination is the root of Calvinism. Gotta roll.
Will try to address each verse later.

You don't like those types of verses so you dismiss them?
To me they explain why:
1. Some people come in & others don't
2. They Help me to remove the weight of carrying salvation on my own shoulders.
For he knows our frame; he remembers that we are dust. Psalm 103:14

 

[FromOffTheStreets]

Are you saying in these verses they were saved apart from their own will?

Not apart from their will, but they each were sought out & specifically chosen. They did not "will" themselves in on their own accord.

 

[BrownFlush]

You don't like those types of verses so you dismiss them?
To me they explain why:
1. Some people come in & others don't
2. They Help me to remove the weight of carrying salvation on my own shoulders.
For he knows our frame; he remembers that we are dust. Psalm 103:14

I don't dismiss any verse. I told ya I'd get back. "All" scripture has been given.

From this comment, it appears you believe the Bible teaches once saved always saved? Yes or no?

 

[Integrity]

Are you saying in these verses they were saved apart from their own will?

What does it mean that God draws us to salvation? | GotQuestions.org

What does it mean that God draws us to salvation? Why do we have to be drawn to salvation?

www.gotquestions.org

 

[FromOffTheStreets]

I don't dismiss any verse. I told ya I'd get back. "All" scripture has been given.

From this comment, it appears you believe the Bible teaches once saved always saved? Yes or no?

It depends on how you interpret who is Saved. We see the outside and might think judas was saved & then turned away, he "seemed" saved anyways. But Jesus always knew.

John 6:64 But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him. 65 And He said, “Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.”

The ones he foreknew cannot lose it;
John 10:26 But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you. 27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand.

Jesus knows who is saved & those people can't lose it because they will always follow him. There are others who seem saved that will not always follow him

 

[Integrity]

I don't dismiss any verse. I told ya I'd get back. "All" scripture has been given.

From this comment, it appears you believe the Bible teaches once saved always saved? Yes or no?

You don’t?. Don’t you claim Jesus came to condemn the world?

Although I probably would word it differently I do believe the Bible teaches the concept once saved always saved.

 

[Fred's Myth]

I don't dismiss any verse. I told ya I'd get back. "All" scripture has been given.

From this comment, it appears you believe the Bible teaches once saved always saved? Yes or no?

Shouldn't you be Catholic?

The Old Testament books were written well before Jesus’ Incarnation, and all of the New Testament books were written by roughly the end of the first century A.D. But the Bible as a whole was not officially compiled until the late fourth century, illustrating that it was the Catholic Church who determined the canon—or list of books—of the Bible under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Indeed, the Bible is not a not a self-canonizing collection of books, as there is no table of contents included in any of the books.
Although the New Testament canon was not determined until the late 300s, books the Church deemed sacred were early on proclaimed at Mass, and read and preached about otherwise. Early Christian writings outnumbered the 27 books that would become the canon of the New Testament. The shepherds of the Church, by a process of spiritual discernment and investigation into the liturgical traditions of the Church spread throughout the world, had to draw clear lines of distinction between books that are truly inspired by God and originated in the apostolic period, and those which only claimed to have these qualities.
The process culminated in 382 as the Council of Rome, which was convened under the leadership of Pope Damasus, promulgated the 73-book scriptural canon. The biblical canon was reaffirmed by the regional councils of Hippo (393) and Carthage (397), and then definitively reaffirmed by the ecumenical Council of Florence in 1442.
Finally, the ecumenical Council of Trent solemnly defined this same canon in 1546, after it came under attack by the first Protestant leaders, including Martin Luther. Who Compiled the Bible and When?

 

[BrownFlush]

Psalm 139:16 Your eyes saw my substance, being yet unformed.
And in Your book they all were written,
The days fashioned for me,
When as yet there were none of them

Not sure why you posted this. It reminds me of this text:
“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; - Jer. 1: 5
God knows the story of your life, knows what will happen because of your life, the decisions we will make, whether we are going to heaven or not before we see the light of day. But, he doesn't interfere with your free will from birth until death.

Acts 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of the Lord. And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.

If you think you've found a statement that supports your Calvinistic view here , you may want to try somewhere else.
Here's the problems with what you're ( I think pushing).. If God foreordained people to be saved, then he foreordained others to be lost. That would make him a respecter of persons. He's not Acts10& Rom.2
What this verse is teaching is, God foreknew a plan in which if man (Jew and Gentile) submitted to it , he would be appointed to eternal life.
Only a certain type of person submits to this plan. One who humbly submits to his will.
Those who do not, are appointed to doom.
In the context of the verse, the Jews rejected this plans deciding their eternal destiny, while the Gentiles attitude was totally different upon hearing the gospel, decided their own destiny by believing the gospel.

John 17:9 "I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours.

This is the Apostles.

Romans 9:15 For He says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion.” 16 So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy. 21 Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?

In saving lost men, God does not capriciously decide who or when or how each will be saved. Every alien sinner is subject to the same gospel and the same conditions of obedience to it. Each of us must make that decision, whether or not to be saved.
In bringing to maturity that he would bless all nations through the seed of Abraham, God followed the council of his own will. Paul isn't teaching that individuals have no choice in their salvation. He's teaching God made choices in selecting in the linage of Christ.

 

[BrownFlush]

It depends on how you interpret who is Saved. We see the outside and might think judas was saved & then turned away, he "seemed" saved anyways. But Jesus always knew.

John 6:64 But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him. 65 And He said, “Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.”

The ones he foreknew cannot lose it;
John 10:26 But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you. 27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand.

Jesus knows who is saved & those people can't lose it because they will always follow him. There are others who seem saved that will not always follow him

Tell that to Simon in Acts 8.
Tell that to Peter.
For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first.For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment handed on to them. It has happened to them according to the true proverb, “A DOG RETURNS TO ITS OWN VOMIT,” and, “A sow, after washing, returns to wallowing in the mire.” 2 Peter 2: 20-23

As for the John passages.. You're going for the impossibility of apostasy..(I had no idea you were a Calvinist ) Try this...The sheep are already saved, that's why eternal life is given them.
Sheep in scripture metaphorically are the saved . Goats are not. The passage should read like this for what you want it to say..Jesus takes goats (the unsaved) and turns them into sheep by giving them eternal life.
It's not possible to be given something you have already received. If you have eternal life the moment you have forgiveness, the process by which you receive salvation and eternal life would be the same moment. Being sheep, they are already saved and the Lord gives the saved eternal life.

 

[BrownFlush]

Shouldn't you be Catholic?

No thanks.
Ever wonder why they didn't want anyone to read it?

 

[Fred's Myth]

No thanks.
Ever wonder why they didn't want anyone to read it?

I wouldn't expect such an ignorant statement from you.

Prior to the Gutenberg Press, copies of the Holy Bible were manuscripts, hand-written in monasteries. They even made the paper they copied onto. Copying the text alone took an estimated 15 months. The time alone invested made each text immeasurably valuable, and so left available to the public meant it was also available to thieves. The intelligent thing to do was to keep what few copies existed, secure, and only available as a reference. The result is, the accusation that the early Church prevented the few who could even read it from doing so.

Just like you're doing.

 

[Fred's Myth]

No thanks.
Ever wonder why they didn't want anyone to read it?

Why would you accept the compilation of Scripture by the Catholic Church, claim Sola Scriptura of that compilation, and then outright reject the authority of that church?