Religion

[BrownFlush]

There are warnings throughout scripture on many things.
I try to stay in the middle portion of the free will vs determinism debate. So from the middle vs a calvinist friend I asked why the devil would mess with the sheep at all, why would God even allow it knowing they would never join the unbelievers.

The purpose is to refine the flock. Confrontation breeds strength which leads to sanctification.

So why would a warning be needed? Because that confrontation would be coming. Judaizers would be coming for them to test their allegiance.

Some of them would hold fast like the disciples in John 6:67. & others would go away like in john 6:66(fitting chapter & verse #'s there)

So the Hebrew Christians that would go away, did they get plucked ?

 

[rickyb]

So the Hebrew Christians that would go away, did they get plucked ?

you cant see the forest from the trees

you gotta focus on your actions to create heaven on earth now.

 

[BrownFlush]

So salvation is conditional but remaining faithful isn't.
Why then does Jesus encourage Christians to "remain" faithful and he would give them a crown of life in Rev.2:10?
If while under persecution , they would deny Christ, seem that might define unfaithful. Thus, no crown of life.It only goes to the faithful according to Jesus.

@FromOffTheStreets ...Responce?

 

[vantexan]

when i search Economic policy institute trump unions the first 2 articles are predictably bad reviews of trumps economic record regarding them.

So? I lived through Trump's term. The first three years were great. And which president said communism is great?

 

[FromOffTheStreets]

If they had escaped the pollutions of the world through Jesus Christ but they get "tangled up again"...what does that mean? It appears they were definitely sheep.

You know it's funny that a couple years ago I asked you if all the people through the catholic years were going to hell because they didn't partake in c of c doctrine - yes. Or what about a guy who is a missionary somewhere & dies because he won't renounce Christ but he wasn't baptized c of c - hell.

Yet obvious false prophets in 2 Peter are sheep? The entire chapter speaks of false prophets. These had knowledge of Jesus Christ, but were workers of iniquity.

It's very simple; sheep don't leave, goats/wolves do leave. It may take some time to figure out what someone is.

 

[rickyb]

So? I lived through Trump's term. The first three years were great. And which president said communism is great?

doesnt matter if you live in teh country or not. you can live somewhere and be lost.

how much did union rate go up under FDR? when trump was speaking why didnt he tell worker to join unions?

 

[vantexan]

doesnt matter if you live in teh country or not. you can live somewhere and be lost.

how much did union rate go up under FDR? when trump was speaking why didnt he tell worker to join unions?

Here you go again. Which president said communism is great? You make these statements all the time then call me dishonest for pointing it out. Come on, hit me with facts. Which president said communism is great?

 

[rickyb]

Here you go again. What president said communism is great? You make these statements all the time then call me dishonest for pointing it out. Come on, hit me with facts. Which president said communism is great?

people can join communist membership and union rate will go up like it did in 1930s america

 

[BrownFlush]

You know it's funny that a couple years ago I asked you if all the people through the catholic years were going to hell because they didn't partake in c of c doctrine - yes. Or what about a guy who is a missionary somewhere & dies because he won't renounce Christ but he wasn't baptized c of c - hell.

Yet obvious false prophets in 2 Peter are sheep? The entire chapter speaks of false prophets. These had knowledge of Jesus Christ, but were workers of iniquity.

It's very simple; sheep don't leave, goats/wolves do leave. It may take some time to figure out what someone is.

Your comment doesn't seem very simple. Are you denying that the false teachers that Peter is discussing were Christians?

I contend the text very plainly teaches these were Christians. Notice again that they had "escaped the pollutions on the world".
What happened to them when that happened? Sounds like they became Christians and enjoyed the blessings and benefits of saved people. I don't know any other way someone can escape the defilements of the world unless they become a Christian.

 

[vantexan]

people can join communist membership and union rate will go up like it did in 1930s america

You said the president can affect union rates and one did by saying communism is great. Which president said that?

 

[FromOffTheStreets]

So salvation is conditional but remaining faithful isn't.
Why then does Jesus encourage Christians to "remain" faithful and he would give them a crown of life in Rev.2:10?
If while under persecution , they would deny Christ, seem that might define unfaithful. Thus, no crown of life.It only goes to the faithful according to Jesus.

Yes remaining faithful is paramount, something goats will not do

 

[rickyb]

You said the president can affect union rates and one did by saying communism is great. Which president said that?

i didnt mean that. but hte president can definitely mention joining unions in all his speeches.

trump did more anti communism speeches than pro union speeches im sure!

 

[BrownFlush]

Yes remaining faithful is paramount, something goats will not do

He wasn't talking to goats. He was talking to the church at Smyrna.

 

[FromOffTheStreets]

Your comment doesn't seem very simple. Are you denying that the false teachers that Peter is discussing were Christians?

I contend the text very plainly teaches these were Christians. Notice again that they had "escaped the pollutions on the world".
What happened to them when that happened? Sounds like they became Christians and enjoyed the blessings and benefits of saved people. I don't know any other way someone can escape the defilements of the world unless the become a Christian.

You know those people who come to church, get themselves all cleaned up, get baptized. A year later they're gone. They cleaned up the outside but the inside was never replaced with the savior.

Judas did the same thing for 3 years & was never a sheep.

 

[BrownFlush]

You know those people who come to church, get themselves all cleaned up, get baptized. A year later they're gone. They cleaned up the outside but the inside was never replaced with the savior.

Judas did the same thing for 3 years & was never a sheep.

But, Peter affirms they were "sheep" They weren't a Judas.
They "had escaped" (it was the real deal) and "turned back".

 

[vantexan]

i didnt mean that. but hte president can definitely mention joining unions in all his speeches.

trump did more anti communism speeches than pro union speeches im sure!

It's what you said. You do that all the time. Why would a president who doesn't like unions say anything positive about them? Of course Trump didn't praise unions. And to my knowledge no president ever said communism is great.

 

[vantexan]

You know those people who come to church, get themselves all cleaned up, get baptized. A year later they're gone. They cleaned up the outside but the inside was never replaced with the savior.

Judas did the same thing for 3 years & was never a sheep.

I think y'all are getting lost in the weeds.

 

[rickyb]

It's what you said. You do that all the time. Why would a president who doesn't like unions say anything positive about them? Of course Trump didn't praise unions. And to my knowledge no president ever said communism is great.

why doesnt trump like unions LOL?

i thought you said he was good for the economy. that would be a logical thing to do increase union rate would it not?

if i do it all the time you can quote me

 

[BrownFlush]

@FromOffTheStreets
Can a child of God lie? Yes, the Bible warns him not to lie (Col. 3:9)
All liars will have their place in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone (Rev. 21:8).
Can a child of God get drunk? Yes, he is told not to get drunk (Eph. 5:18). 3. But no drunkard can enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Can a child of God commit fornication? Yes. Christians are told to flee from it.(1 Cor. 6:18) Fornicators cannot inherit the kingdom of God (1 Cor.6:9)
It appears that real Christians can and did commit real sins that they needed to repent of and to ask God to forgive them (conditional) so they may continue to "walk in the light." (where God's grace and mercy is)

Maybe your verse is teaching that no one can pluck you out of his hand...except you. If you refuse to meet the conditions of remaining faithful. (repentance and prayer )
The choice of sinning isn't because your conversion wasn't sincere, but because you're human and fall into temptation. All have sinned and continue to sin. Sin separates one from God.
The guarantee he gives in that verse (eternal life ) is gone when you do not meet the conditions of what the scriptures teach a faithful Christian must do to continue to remain in his hand where grace, mercy and forgiveness are. Eternal life in your verse is not guaranteed to the unfaithful. The one who continues in sin. He gets entangled and is overcome. He's in worse shape now than before he became a Christian. I don't think the Bible teaches his reward is eternal life.

 

[BrownFlush]

But, Peter affirms they were "sheep" They weren't a Judas.
They "had escaped" (it was the real deal) and "turned back".

@FromOffTheStreets Response?

He wasn't talking to goats. He was talking to the church at Smyrna.

Response ?