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BrownFlush
Woke Racist Reigning Ban King
A predetermined "sheep" as you put it?
Or a "Christian" as the New Testament defines one.
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FromOffTheStreets
Well-Known Member
Everyone that has walked on the earth except Jesus
BrownFlush
Woke Racist Reigning Ban King
Since we're on this side of the cross, the New Testament, the law of Christ, is the focus for now if that's ok.
I don't understand.
They can be lost? How? You say the verse says they can't?
FromOffTheStreets
Well-Known Member
So you believe kenneth Copeland is/was saved? Or any of the other modern day false teachers? Yet you don't believe a missionary being killed because he won't deny Christ is saved? ( because he wasn't baptized c of c)
Because these are the types of false teachers peter is speaking about.
Anyone can come in an clean up their image, even know the plan of salvation, even do mighty works. Jesus says I NEVER knew you, workers of iniquity(Matt 7)
FromOffTheStreets
Well-Known Member
Because you believe every time you sin you lose your salvation & you earn it back.
Hopefully you don't die suddenly & don't have a chance to repent.
FromOffTheStreets
Well-Known Member
Every time you post a dank meme you repent, right?
BrownFlush
Woke Racist Reigning Ban King
I believe what the Bible teaches makes and keeps one saved.
Judement is not my department. I can judge if a person teaches or believes what the Bible teaches. Just like we're doing. Ken Copeland was false teacher and was never "saved" or taught how one could be saved according to the New Testament.
CofC has no"doctrine " that I know of. The church does appeal to the NT for authority for what it believes.
Nope.
They may have turned into Ken Copeland's .. they "returned" They had been "enlightened'' and enjoyed being a Christian.
You've said this before. Lot's of lookin' good on the outside.
Iniquity means lawlessness. Without authority.
They were preaching and teaching and doing what was good (they thought) but all was without the authority /approval of Christ.
If he never knew them, they thought they had done what was necasary to become a Christian and be "one" of his, but evidently not. Matt. 7 and that judgement scene is one of the most eye opening text in scripture.
BrownFlush
Woke Racist Reigning Ban King
Dank? You mean dark? lol
No. Not every time..
Maybe God will judge my sense of humor different than you do. It is subjective. Not a specific.
BrownFlush
Woke Racist Reigning Ban King
I'll be glad to discuss this,(no one earns anything ,anytime when it comes to salvation) but first answer the question..
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FromOffTheStreets
Well-Known Member
This might help you out in understanding my view on these people.
1 John 1 19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us.
Just as judas, just as any false prophet or false brethren. There are tares among the wheat, wolves/ goats among the sheep. For such a high level of scripture that you have I would figure that you would understand this concept. But you are locked in for some reason
BrownFlush
Woke Racist Reigning Ban King
You liked this meme , but your comments seem kinda of attackey. Maybe, it's just me.
But if you would, can you discuss what I said here?
You're not going to believe this..but..but..I knew this verse was a comin'!But, I think you're in too deep to see it.
Your refusal to see the false teachers Peter was writing about were once Christians and then turned back to the world is disheartening.
"For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turnaway from the holy commandment handed on to them. It has happened to them according to the trueproverb, “A DOG RETURNS TO ITS OWN VOMIT,” and, “A sow, after washing, returns to wallowing in the mire.”
To return to something, you have to leave it. They left the ways of the world, became Christians, and became unfaithful Christians because they returned to the sinful life of the world. They became false teachers and prophets because who better to speak lies about being Christianity than one who knew it but left for the pleasures of the world? Disheartening other Christians to leave the Lord, everybody knows it's not what they said.
I hate to tell you, but you're a calvinist, Calvin. Because calvinism is a system (speaking of systems) that is constructed so that if you admit one of the TULIP's the rest of the doctrines of calvinism are necessary conclusions.
So, God has predestinated some to everlasting life and others to everlasting death. Also, with this position you assert that this foreordination to life or to death is conditioned upon God's sovereign will, not upon anything which He saw in man as to whether or not man would act to accept the riches of God's grace or not.
"We call predestination God's eternal decree, by which he determined with himself what he willed to become of each man. For all are not created in equal condition; rather, eternal life is foreordained for some, eternal damnation for others." -John Calvin
Think, Calvin. Think.
That would make the death of Jesus Christ limited in its scope. It would be only for those whom God predestinated to salvation. Last time I looked, Christ died for all.The atonement of Jesus Christ would not be universal in its scope.
Jesus died only for the elect? Somewhere , I thought we were supposed to make "our" election sure.
So, God's eternal plan of man's salvation/redempton (remember this, it's coming with your Ephesian verse) never intended to save all men? Wowza!
And who God elected for salvation cannot ever fall from grace? Once God has saved them, they are saved forever? More connection, Calvin.
I think about babies who never committed sin and who are not "elected" and are Hell bound. Got that Adam sin deal, don't you know. Seems unjust. Last I looked, God is a just God.
Think Calvin, If one is "elected" no matter what he does, he's going to heaven. An infant or a young child, not "elected", yet unaccountable/not responsible for any sin, hell bound. There is no justice in any of this and nothing in scripture close to teaching this.
Ephesians 1:4 .. Predestinated defined. The word "predestinated" means to "mark out beforehand, to determine before, fore-ordain"(Vine) The ASV "having foreordained us."
There is no denying it teaches that God marked out our salvation beforehand. But I gotta ask, do the scriptures teach the predestination is conditional or unconditional?
Think about this, I know it's tough when you're locked into something but, did God select certain individuals or did he select salvation in Christ (a plan of redemption before the world was made) and ALL IN HIM ARE CHOSEN?
That would make the plan conditional and the same (just) for everyone. Receiving salvation (being chosen or elected) is conditional upon our obedience to the gospel.
"And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all( not a chosen few) who obey Him "(Heb. 5:9).
"Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city" (Rev. 22:14). According to you, Calvin it wouldn't matter if I;m not one of the "elect"
"Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven" (Matt. 7:21). Jesus says that if I doo his will, I'm in. Nothing about being "elected"
The selection is not particular individuals, but choosing those who are obedient to his will/his eternal plan he predetermined before he made the world, will be saved. God foreordained that all those who voluntarily choose to walk by faith in Christ shall be added to his family by adoption. There can be no doubt, God willed in his love that those in Christ should be his sons with the full benefit of inheritance.
"God foreordained the provisions of salvation, the characters that should be saved, and the conditions and tests by which they would be saved. He left every man free to choose or reject the terms and provisions of salvation and in so doing to refuse to form the character God has foreordained to be his children and so predestined to everlasting life" - Lipscomb
Think about a man predestinating (marking out beforehand) a secretary. His choosing is not unconditional nor is it a "marking out" of a particular individual. Before he hires anyone he marks out the qualifications. She must be a whiz on the computer, have some knowledge of his type of business, two years of college, phone skills, etc. She must meet these conditions.
Did he predestinate Sally?. No, he did not arbitrarily choose Sally. But he chose the qualities of the person who he would hire. Sally met the requirements, he hired her.
That's how it works with God's eternal plan.
FromOffTheStreets
Well-Known Member
I don't know what verse your referencing here
BrownFlush
Woke Racist Reigning Ban King
Please. I'm not the one who is teaching locked in.
FromOffTheStreets
Well-Known Member
Was planning on it. I'll be traveling the next couple days so it may take a while
BrownFlush
Woke Racist Reigning Ban King
John 10:28
BrownFlush
Woke Racist Reigning Ban King
1 John 2:19
The "they" in this passage are those who had the characteristics that were "anti" or against Christ. John had some specific ones in mind that "had gone out from us."
Out from indicates origin from the center. So these were former disciples that were members of the church. If they "would have continued" they would not have "gone out'' from them. They would have stayed with them and kept and maintained the characteristics of a disciple.
This is much like the Peter verse you deny. You can't go out of a place you have never been. If they had of maintained the same love of Christ the others had, they would not have apostatized.
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BrownFlush
Woke Racist Reigning Ban King
Sounds attckey again.
Oh, well.
I understand the concept. I don't agree the scripture is teaching what you're injecting.
FromOffTheStreets
Well-Known Member
I tried to track this back to see where your going here.
You- do Christians sin?
Me - yes (1 john 1;8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.)
You - they are lost?
Me - no, it's a relationship between a father & a child. I don't throw them out of the family every time they sin against me. And then wonder if they will return to me in repentance. In - out, in - out, in - out throughout their lifetime. They are my son, they hear my voice, I teach them, I discipline them, I carry them, I sustain them. If he rebels I continue to call out to him. He may fall to the bottom before he realizes he truly needs me.
We're all born to serve him, but most reject it
BrownFlush
Woke Racist Reigning Ban King
Is verse 9 a condition of forgiveness?
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