Safety Compliance.

[pickup]

What was the industry standard when purchased versus what it became later? So then you had the volvo modified to meet todays industry standards as opposed to yesterdays industry standards? I sure hope you did I would hate to think you were a donut eating lip service giving safety advocate. Don't worry sober its not the first time I've seen this. The guy who screams the loudest about ups not caring about safety is often the guy who applies a double standard at home. He's the guy who all of a sudden discovers he can have a safe vehicle without modifying the old car at home.

you know tieguy, I can clearly see you are an intelligent fellow by the way you write. I may not agree with what you say, but I find my red pen's cap stays on when I read your posts as they are well constructed. But it is as if this a school debate and you were assigned the con side of the argument. As a debater, you have to argue whatever side of the argument you were assigned,even if you don't agree with that side, and you're doing an admirable job with the points (counter to soberups') that you are posting. But you're losing this battle.

To bring soberups' point home in regards to a three point seat belt, I suggest the following experiment. The next time you get in your personal car and put your seatbelt on , take the part that goes diagonally from your left shoulder to your right hip and put it behind you between your body and the seat. This can be done easily with no bodily discomfit. Now, buckle up, you now have a two point seat belt. Do it in the parking lot of private property like a walmart parking lot if you don't want to violate any traffic laws. Do you see how vulnerable you are in the event of an accident?

 

[soberups]

What was the industry standard when purchased versus what it became later? So then you had the volvo modified to meet todays industry standards as opposed to yesterdays industry standards? I sure hope you did I would hate to think you were a donut eating lip service giving safety advocate.

In the case of the specific package cars I am referring to....those made in the late 80's thru mid 90's....industry standard features included 3 -point seatbelts and power steering. Every comparable FedEx and DHL vehicle that I have seen over the last 22 yrs has had these features.

These features were intentionally deleted by UPS up until the last day that it was legally or contractually allowable for them to do so.

The specific package cars I am referring to were in fact designed from the factory with mounting points for the 3 point belts, and could easily and legally have such belts retrofitted using factory-supplied OEM hardware. I even went to the trouble in an earlier thread of taking pictures with specific vehicle models and #s. Perhaps someone with better computer skills than I could post a link to this thread.

Do not try to lead this argument astray with red herrings about airbags, roll cages, helmets or Volvos. What we are debating is package cars that had industry-standard safety features intentionally deleted by a company that cares more about profits than the safety of its people.

 

[soberups]

To bring soberups' point home in regards to a three point seat belt, I suggest the following experiment. The next time you get in your personal car and put your seatbelt on , take the part that goes diagonally from your left shoulder to your right hip and put it behind you between your body and the seat. This can be done easily with no bodily discomfit. Now, buckle up, you now have a two point seat belt. Do it in the parking lot of private property like a walmart parking lot if you don't want to violate any traffic laws. Do you see how vulnerable you are in the event of an accident?

As long as the person doing this experiment can recite the 10 pt commentary and is aware that All Good Kids Love Milk, it doesnt matter whether they have a 2 vs. a 3 pt belt because knowledge of the acronyms and buzzwords creates an invisible force field around the package car that will cause other vehicles to magically bounce off of us in the event of a head on collision.

 

[tieguy]

As long as the person doing this experiment can recite the 10 pt commentary and is aware that All Good Kids Love Milk, it doesnt matter whether they have a 2 vs. a 3 pt belt because knowledge of the acronyms and buzzwords creates an invisible force field around the package car that will cause other vehicles to magically bounce off of us in the event of a head on collision.

And yet you sent your daughter out without the latest safety improvements on her vehicle. Go figure.

 

[soberups]

And yet you sent your daughter out without the latest safety improvements on her vehicle. Go figure.

Incorrect.

We researched frontal-impact crash ratings and decided upon a Volvo because of its historically high rating in these areas.

When it came time to purchase a vehicle, we narrowed our choice down to a couple of locally available cars that were in our price range.

One was a 1992 model that lacked airbags and ABS, as these features were not required or industry standard at that time. The other one was a 1994 model that had both features. It also had higher miles on it than the '92 and was about $900 more expensive.

We did a cost-benefit analysis and decided that airbags and antilock brakes were worth the additional expense in terms of the likely benefit they would have for our daughter in the event of a crash, so we spent the extra $900 and bought the car that was equipped with the industry-standard options that were available at that time.

UPS management also did a cost-benefit analysis regarding vehicle purchases...only they came to the opposite conclusion that my wife and I did and decided instead that the lives of their employees were not worth spending the extra $40 or so for the industry-standard 3-point belts that were available at that time.

Go figure.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Advantage: Sober

 

[tieguy]

Incorrect.

We researched frontal-impact crash ratings and decided upon a Volvo because of its historically high rating in these areas.

When it came time to purchase a vehicle, we narrowed our choice down to a couple of locally available cars that were in our price range.

One was a 1992 model that lacked airbags and ABS, as these features were not required or industry standard at that time. The other one was a 1994 model that had both features. It also had higher miles on it than the '92 and was about $900 more expensive.

We did a cost-benefit analysis and decided that airbags and antilock brakes were worth the additional expense in terms of the likely benefit they would have for our daughter in the event of a crash, so we spent $900 extra and bought the car that was equipped with the industry-standard options that were available at that time.

UPS management also did a cost-benefit analysis regarding vehicle purchases...only they came to the opposite conclusion and decided that the lives of their employees were not worth spending an extra $40 or so for the industry-standard 3-point belts that were available at that time.

Go figure.

The vehicle you purchased just like the one ups purchased did not have the most current industry standard safety equipment. UPS chose not to modify thier equipment. You chose to not modify your equipment. Yet only ups is at fault here. Go figure.

 

[tieguy]

Advantage: Sober

Look sober you're getting your but kicked so bad you have others here trying to rush in to save you.

 

[trplnkl]

Look sober you're getting your but kicked so bad you have others here trying to rush in to save you.

Time to face the music Tie, there is no way you can spin this to your advantage. Your stance is ....for lack of a better word....ridiculous. So much so that it is getting funny.

GO ahead, take your shot. IT will probably miss the target also.LOL

 

[tieguy]

Time to face the music Tie, there is no way you can spin this to your advantage. Your stance is ....for lack of a better word....ridiculous. So much so that it is getting funny.

GO ahead, take your shot. IT will probably miss the target also.LOL

Look sober another one trying to rush in to try to save you.

checkmate!!!

 

[soberups]

The vehicle you purchased just like the one ups purchased did not have the most current industry standard safety equipment. UPS chose not to modify thier equipment. You chose to not modify your equipment. Yet only ups is at fault here. Go figure.

Incorrect.

Industry standard vehicles produced in the 1980's and early 1990's all had 3-point seatbelts and power steering...all except the ones that UPS ordered with these features intentionally deleted.

The 1994 Volvo we bought for our daughter did have all the industry standard safety features that were available at that time. Unlike UPS, we did not order a vehicle from which these features had been intentionally deleted.

No one is saying that UPS should make illegal or unsafe modifications to its vehicles.

Replacing the manual steering with power steering using OEM equipment...in a vehicle that was designed from the factory to be so equipped is not illegal or unsafe.

Replacing a 2 point belt with a 3 point belt using OEM equipment...in a vehicle that was designed from the factory with mounting points for such a belt...is not illegal or unsafe.

It does however require an admission on the part of the company that intentionally deleting these options in the first place was a mistake, and that there is more to creating a "safe by choice" workplace than reciting acronyms and commentaries.

Go figure.

 

[soberups]

Look sober you're getting your but kicked so bad you have others here trying to rush in to save you.

I guess I have no choice then but to bow to your obviously superior intellect.

I obviously forgot about the UPS management motto...."if you cant be right, then be wrong at the top of your lungs."

 

[trplnkl]

Look sober another one trying to rush in to try to save you.

checkmate!!!

Now Tie, I hate to be the one to point this out to you but I must. It isn't Sober I am trying to help, it's YOU, my friend. You are embarrassing yourself, to the point that even UpState and I are feeling sorry for you. Please don't make us call for an intervention on your behalf.

 

[tieguy]

Incorrect.

Industry standard vehicles produced in the 1980's and early 1990's all had 3-point seatbelts and power steering...all except the ones that UPS ordered with these features intentionally deleted.

The 1994 Volvo we bought for our daughter did have all the industry standard safety features that were available at that time. Unlike UPS, we did not order a vehicle from which these features had been intentionally deleted.

No one is saying that UPS should make illegal or unsafe modifications to its vehicles.

Replacing the manual steering with power steering using OEM equipment...in a vehicle that was designed from the factory to be so equipped is not illegal or unsafe.

Replacing a 2 point belt with a 3 point belt using OEM equipment...in a vehicle that was designed from the factory with mounting points for such a belt...is not illegal or unsafe.

It does however require an admission on the part of the company that intentionally deleting these options in the first place was a mistake, and that there is more to creating a "safe by choice" workplace than reciting acronyms and commentaries.

Go figure.

lol this is great. I had you knocked out on the mat. Now all of a sudden you're leaning against the ropes your eyelids propped open with toothpicks trying to tell me you still have something left.

Point has been too many times for me to keep rehashing it:

a) you badmouthed ups for not modifying equipment yet you refused to apply the same standard to your daughters vehicle.

b) you badmouthed our safety training and yet admitted that you applied the same training when teaching your daughter how to drive.

too late to try to prop your eyelids open your done already.

 

[soberups]

Look sober another one trying to rush in to try to save you.

checkmate!!!

Checkmate can only occur when both parties involved are playing chess.

In this case, one of us is playing chess while the other is playing Candyland.

I will leave it to the individual readers of this forum to decide for themselves who they think is playing what.

 

[pickup]

Checkmate can only occur when both parties involved are playing chess.

In this case, one of us is playing chess while the other is playing Candyland.

I will leave it to the individual readers of this forum to decide for themselves who they think is playing what.

and someone is stuck in molasses swamp and thinks he has won the game.

 

[soberups]

a) you badmouthed ups for not modifying equipment yet you refused to apply the same standard to your daughters vehicle.

b) you badmouthed our safety training and yet admitted that you applied the same training when teaching your daughter how to drive.

.

Incorrect.

I dont need to modify my daughters vehicle since, unlike a UPS pkg car, it came from the factory without having its industry-standard safety features intentionally deleted.

I never badmouthed our safety training....I only pointed out that there was more to a "safe by choice" workplace than ad naseum repitition of same.

I thought I was supposed to feel guilty for taking candy from a baby, but its actually getting to be kind of fun.

 

[tieguy]

Checkmate can only occur when both parties involved are playing chess.

In this case, one of us is playing chess while the other is playing Candyland.

I will leave it to the individual readers of this forum to decide for themselves who they think is playing what.

Sober the fact remains the company gave you some reasons they felt were good reasons as to why they did not do the modification.

You refused to accept those reasons and yet think I'm supposed to accept your excuses as to why you did not apply the same standard at home that you expected at work.

You're just digging your hole deeper with each post.

 

[tieguy]

Incorrect.

I dont need to modify my daughters vehicle since, unlike a UPS pkg car, it came from the factory without having its industry-standard safety features intentionally deleted.

I never badmouthed our safety training....I only pointed out that there was more to a "safe by choice" workplace than ad naseum repitition of same.

I thought I was supposed to feel guilty for taking candy from a baby, but its actually getting to be kind of fun.

I'm sorry I didn't realize you had bought your daughters volv0 with every single feature that they offered available and loaded on it? If not then you chose to buy a car that also had features missing and you chose to not modify the vehicle up to current standards. Why because it was coming out of your pocket. And you then gave your daughter the same safety training you constantly badmouth at ups.

You walked in to those facts sober. I'm just splainin to ya.

 

[UPSNewbie]

This reminds me of a British tv show that I watched... Tie = Matt and Rich, and Sober = Mastermind Host:

Snuff Box - Mastermind