Seniority...... who's got what???

[ManInBrown]

If you rebid every two years than yes someone you had more seniority over last time may have more this time. It only makes sense. Let's say you have a 22.3 that came over awhile back. You had him beat before because all his years didn't count. Well they count now.

I have no dog in this fight but to think that a change like this will not affect you because you're not in feeder is not very bright.

Think about the other fulltimers that have wanted to go into driving but don't wanna start at the bottom. Well here they come.

We don't bid every 2 years in the 177, as far as I know. For package in my center we don't. Routes are permanent till you bid off or transfer. So again, if bidding isn't changed what's the point? It makes no sense. What is being gained? Unless like east coast navy said, its only for a classification change.

I will happily take the hit in feeder later, to insure I don't lose my package route now. I know that might sound odd, but being a cover once you had your own route would absolutely blow. You get comfortable. Roll in the door 2 minutes before the start time. It's like a different job.

 

[542thruNthru]

We don't bid every 2 years here. Routes are permanent till you bid off or transfer

Then as far as I can see it shouldn't be a problem.

Though it all depends on the negotiations.

 

[Whatbrownwontdoforyou]

Language we have allows us to bid only within classification... If some one were to get kicked back to package from feeder, you would have bidding out side of classification... So all that's being asked for is if someone wants to be in another classification they will have to transfer. Then they will carry over your their seniority..

I just have 2 questions.....what will you guys be willing to give up to get this change......because the union will ask for things and the company will ask for things? Is your group willing to strike over it?

 

[Bubblehead]

I just have 2 questions....

That would be a first.....and a second.....

 

[Whatbrownwontdoforyou]

That would be a first.....and a second.....

Lol

 

[Whatbrownwontdoforyou]

That would be a first.....and a second.....

Just out of curiosity do you believe that ups won't ask for anything in exchange for changing seniority language in the contract?

 

[Bubblehead]

Just out of curiosity do you believe that ups won't ask for anything in exchange for changing seniority language in the contract?

Sure, they will ask, but in the end I don't see it as a hard sell if it's done across the whole full time classification, as it should be.

Let me ask you two questions.

What does the Company stand to lose in this change and do you think that the Company is willing to entertain a strike or lockout over this issue?

 

[East coast navy]

I knew that, but no one who is already in there classification should not be affected going forward IF the seniority is changed from classification to company seniority. So therefore, you have to red line it. Change should be going forward not backwards as in the members who have been in this present system.

Red line wouldn't work because there are more members that don't want that then do.

 

[East coast navy]

We don't bid every 2 years in the 177, as far as I know. For package in my center we don't. Routes are permanent till you bid off or transfer. So again, if bidding isn't changed what's the point? It makes no sense. What is being gained? Unless like east coast navy said, its only for a classification change.

I will happily take the hit in feeder later, to insure I don't lose my package route now. I know that might sound odd, but being a cover once you had your own route would absolutely blow. You get comfortable. Roll in the door 2 minutes before the start time. It's like a different job.

The proposal states that you will not be bumped off your route... You are married to it.. You just carry over your seniority when you transfer... That's the point of the whole thing... Everyone goes to their rightful spot when they were hired Fulltime.. No one gets bumped off their job..

 

[Whatbrownwontdoforyou]

Sure, they will ask, but in the end I don't see it as a hard sell if it's done across the whole full time classification, as it should be.

Let me ask you two questions.

What does the Company stand to lose in this change and do you think that the Company is willing to entertain a strike or lockout over this issue?

It depends on what seniority change members are asking for......if it's the original one they proposed where you carry company seniority no matter where you go in the company......there will be a lot of transfers from center to center and bldg to bldg in package.......package drivers with more than 5 years will transfer out of cities like Newark and into saddlebrook.......or members will transfer out of meadowlands bldg and go to parsippany or saddlebrook.....in my opinion it would be a unwanted headache for the company.......for you second question I would like to think that the company wouldn't strike over it but you never know how far this company will go to take something away from members or how much they will spend not to give in to spite members

 

[Bubblehead]

It depends on what seniority change members are asking for......if it's the original one they proposed where you carry company seniority no matter where you go in the company......there will be a lot of transfers from center to center and bldg to bldg in package.......package drivers with more than 5 years will transfer out of cities like Newark and into saddlebrook.......or members will transfer out of meadowlands bldg and go to parsippany or saddlebrook.....in my opinion it would be a unwanted headache for the company.......for you second question I would like to think that the company wouldn't strike over it but you never know how far this company will go to take something away from members or how much they will spend not to give in to spite members

If I understand it correctly, Local 177 bid their jobs indefinitely, not annually.
With this in mind, the only "transfers" as you termed it, will be through rebids as a result of attrition or the business expanding.
As I see it, the only scenario for the Company to have any liability in the form of retraining, will be in packages.
Feeders and 22.3 jobs don't require the same retraining "learning curve".
Either way, any redistribution of staffing will be gradual.

I speak from experience, as my Local has the Seniority Application that I describe.
At such time as I decide, in my 23rd year or going forward, that humping bundles is no longer for me, I will take my full time seniority to a feeder or 22.3 job as it should be.

In late 2014, 35 feeder drivers were hired off street here.
This was due to an expanded and unprecedented need in feeders and a lack of package drivers willing to make the move.
If the Company were honest, I don't believe they wanted 35 additional package car driver training for this staffing expansion and the residual effects in packages.

How can anybody think that these off street hires should have any type of seniority rights over me if I were to bid into feeders?

 

[Integrity]

My experience has revealed this fact: Seniority and the correct application of it at UPS is often misunderstood and abused. Mainly by those with a lot of time.

I have this question:

If those pushing this issue get what they want then does the following apply:

A 25 year off the street feeder driver who has worked feeders for all 25 years would become a junior feeder driver to a 30 year package driver who transfers into feeders. This means the minute the package driver becomes a feeder driver he becomes a senior feeder driver with 0 experience as a feeder driver to a 25 year feeder driver with 25 years experience as a feeder driver.

Is this how they want it?

 

[Bubblehead]

My experience has revealed this fact: Seniority and the correct application of it at UPS is often misunderstood and abused. Mainly by those with a lot of time.

I have this question:

If those pushing this issue get what they want then does the following apply:

A 25 year off the street feeder driver who has worked feeders for all 25 years would become a junior feeder driver to a 30 year package driver who transfers into feeders. This means the minute the package driver becomes a feeder driver he becomes a senior feeder driver with 0 experience as a feeder driver to a 25 year feeder driver with 25 years experience as a feeder driver.

Is this how they want it?

Is it called a Seniority Application or an Experience Application?

 

[Integrity]

Is it called a Seniority Application or an Experience Application?

Not sure what you mean. Mine was a yes or no question, is that how they want it?

 

[Integrity]

Not sure what you mean. Mine was a yes or no question, is that how they want it?

Not answering really adds to the discussion.

It is impossible to separate Seniority from the experience that is attached to it.

 

[Inthegame]

Is this how they want it?

Yes

 

[Inthegame]

No one gets bumped off their job..

Except every Fdr driver with less company time than the transferring Pkg driver at the next Fdr bid. How about putting other plank in your proposal... All pkg routes get rebid same as Fdrs so everything evens out.

Wouldn't that be fair? If a 25 yr Fdr driver gets bumped off a run shouldn't they then have the same rights of carrying their company time into pkgs and taking that "easier" (if there is such a thing) pkg job?

But you won't propose that cause you know the whole thing goes down in flames then.

Redline is the only equitable and fair thing to do in any seniority change, and everyone knows that.

 

[Integrity]

Yes

If yes then; In the above example the 25 year feeder driver will have less seniority than the 30 year package driver in his first hour as a feeder driver transfer.

Who in their right mind would think this is reasonable?

If someone doesn't think that 25 years of actually doing a specific job doesn't count towards seniority then that someone actually really doesn't believe in seniority at all.

They may believe in "meniority" but not truly in true unionism seniority.

 

[542thruNthru]

If yes then; In the above example the 25 year feeder driver will have less seniority than the 30 year package driver in his first hour as a feeder driver transfer.

Who in their right mind would think this is reasonable?

If someone doesn't think that 25 years of actually doing a specific job doesn't count towards seniority then that someone actually really doesn't believe in seniority at all.

They may believe in "meniority" but not truly in true unionism seniority.

You're talking about experience not seniority. 25 years doing a specific job doesn't count towards seniority. It counts 25 years!

Yes the Feeder driver has more experience in the job but not seniority.

 

[Integrity]

You're talking about experience not seniority. 25 years doing a specific job doesn't count towards seniority. It counts 25 years!

Yes the Feeder driver has more experience in the job but not seniority.

You are wrong he has 25 years seniority as a feeder driver. You cannot separate the seniority from the job being done during the acquisition of said seniority. It just isn't reasonable and doesn't make sense.