Telematics and lunch break......

[Dragon]

He's taking care of "business" Dragon...lol... give him a break

I understand that, but here is 1-3 minutes that is lost at this "stop/lunch" now add those little minutes up over 10 stops during the day and that adds up big time. Now imagine I am riding with you for performence and all of sudden you are not taking those 1-3 minute "breaks", next thing you know you are complaining to the shop steward about your ride because you crushed the route and you want to blame us for massaging the load, moving stuff, setting you up etc, etc.


I am not saying you cannot go to the bathroom with out coding it out everytime just keep it reasonable. However the poster was clearly on lunch (vehicle stopped and he was out of it) so he should show being on lunch.

Dragon

 

[soberups]

I understand that, but here is 1-3 minutes that is lost at this "stop/lunch" now add those little minutes up over 10 stops during the day and that adds up big time. Now imagine I am riding with you for performence and all of sudden you are not taking those 1-3 minute "breaks", next thing you know you are complaining to the shop steward about your ride because you crushed the route and you want to blame us for massaging the load, moving stuff, setting you up etc, etc.


I am not saying you cannot go to the bathroom with out coding it out everytime just keep it reasonable. However the poster was clearly on lunch (vehicle stopped and he was out of it) so he should show being on lunch.

Dragon

This is one of those issues that will never have a one-size-fits all answer.

The company has every right to expect the driver to be productive whenever he/she is on the clock. The company also has every right to expect the employee not to use the company vehicle, fuel and time for "personal" reasons. However.....

The employee also has every right to the periodic use of clean restroom facilities, and to take his/her lunch in a suitable location. In rural areas, that may involve breaking trace. If the employee chooses to take his/her lunch in the vehicle...particularly in order to avoid running up unnecessary mileage...he/she has every right to idle the vehicle as needed in order to provide heat during the winter.

It isnt reasonable for the employee to drive anywhere he/she wants to on company time. It also isnt reasonable for the company to tell the employee that he/she has to pee in the bushes and eat lunch in an unheated vehicle during freezing winter weather.

 

[old levi's]

This is one of those issues that will never have a one-size-fits all answer.

The company has every right to expect the driver to be productive whenever he/she is on the clock. The company also has every right to expect the employee not to use the company vehicle, fuel and time for "personal" reasons. However.....

The employee also has every right to the periodic use of clean restroom facilities, and to take his/her lunch in a suitable location. In rural areas, that may involve breaking trace. If the employee chooses to take his/her lunch in the vehicle...particularly in order to avoid running up unnecessary mileage...he/she has every right to idle the vehicle as needed in order to provide heat during the winter.

It isnt reasonable for the employee to drive anywhere he/she wants to on company time. It also isnt reasonable for the company to tell the employee that he/she has to pee in the bushes and eat lunch in an unheated vehicle during freezing winter weather.

..... or the snow.

 

[brownman15]

ok... the "telematics" guy for our center gave us this example:

these are 2 stops that are 1,000 yards apart......

2200 Loop Ave. and 2400 Loop Ave. (both on the same side of the road)

IT IS ILLEGAL TO OPERATE A COMMERCIAL VEHICLE ON LUNCH ALL ON ROAD TIME MUST BE REPORTED TO DOT FOR HOURS OF SERVICE
I deliver 2200 Loop and on my way to 2400 Loop I decide to pull into an abandoned parking lot and park in the rear under some shade trees and take my hour lunch.


they're saying I took a 105 minute break and saying my break started the second I turned my wheels right into the abandoned parking lot and my break was over when I pulled back onto Loop Ave.


now I know you can't drive 3 miles to your home like you used to and take break (WE ARE PAYING FOR THAT FUEL AND YOU BROKE TRACE!)


..........but that will turn your hour lunch into a 50 minute lunch.


any ideas?

 

[soberups]

..... or the snow.

I dont mind peeing in the bushes or the snow. I grew up in the country and most of my route is in the country. I will not, however, allow the company to tell me that I have to pee in the bushes or the snow in order to satisfy some IE bean counter in a cubicle who doesnt think I should ever "break trace".

 

[BMWMC]

I dont mind peeing in the bushes or the snow. I grew up in the country and most of my route is in the country. I will not, however, allow the company to tell me that I have to pee in the bushes or the snow in order to satisfy some IE bean counter in a cubicle who doesnt think I should ever "break trace".

The problem is that there is no time allowance for restroom breaks or anything else that is human As men get older the have to pee more. In summer weather when your drinking more water you gotta go even more. Your doing the company a favor by peeing in a bottle yet even when you can and do break off when a facilities is in range they jump up and down because your paid over. It shouldn't make a difference even if the facility is far away. Some days I won't have to pee a lot and other days when I am stressed out by work or other issues I pee all the time. When that truck leave the building they see you like they that truck, a machine. What kind of mind. no, what kind of culture of minds believe you can and should work 8-9-10-11-12 hours strait with out stopping, ever?

When your on ride on's your concern about being portrayed as abusing the need by going when you do need to so you hold it in pain, which is very unhealthy thing. Management has created a culture were package/stops/ and the time units are first and your just an automaton. Any person that pushes against this culture in targeted, ostracized, and punished with petty nit picking warning letters. They will make an example of you. Telemetrics is that same culture on turbo drive with nitro packs. Its a culture were the "number" are god and anyone that pushes back is evil and needs to be crushed. They become the nail that stick up from the wood. Its a culture of terror and men and women respond by doing anything to not be that nail. Not being that nail means unhealthy habits and working through unpaid time. If you know anything about UPS you know what I'm talking about.

Management and even the union feel that your over paid Wal-Mart workers and you should just be happy for what you got and do what ever UPS wants. Your a loser. You don't deserve treatment like other humans expect even those in management because you make X and they think you deserve Y. Its a culture that uses guilt to optimize and justify unfair, unlawful, and discriminatory inhuman treatment. I've spent most of my career pushing back and my employment file stands as a testimony of it.

 

[iamhuge]

ups does not have to pay u to find a shady spot to eat. Weather it be 30 seconds away or 15 minutes away. All situations are not the same, but in this case ups is correct. Lunch starts when u break trace and u should be back on trace when lunch is over. If u have an office job, and lunch is from 1200-100, your lunch starts at 1200, not when u reach the cafeteria.

 

[Jones]

Lunch starts when you're off the truck.

Question 2: What conditions must be met for a Commercial Motor Vehicle (CMV) driver to record meal and other routine stops made during a tour of duty as off-duty time?

Guidance:1. The driver must have been relieved of all duty and responsibility for the care and custody of the vehicle, its accessories, and any cargo or passengers it may be carrying.

click

 

[kingOFchester]

ups does not have to pay u to find a shady spot to eat. Weather it be 30 seconds away or 15 minutes away. All situations are not the same, but in this case ups is correct. Lunch starts when u break trace and u should be back on trace when lunch is over. If u have an office job, and lunch is from 1200-100, your lunch starts at 1200, not when u reach the cafeteria.

Wow, how some can not see the obvious.

Yes, UPS does not have to compensate a driver to find a "shaded" spot. However, they are required to pay drivers to find a safe, secure place to park and secure vehicle. I am, and will get paid for the time it takes to get off road, find a spot that is not putting myself or vehicle at risk. Secure vehicle. Last step, clock out, place DIAD on shelf and close bulk head. Upon return, 1st step open bulk head, clock in and then inspect vehicle before rolling forward. It isn't rocket science.

Wheels on the truck go round and round, pay check goes up and up.

 

[soberups]

ups does not have to pay u to find a shady spot to eat. Weather it be 30 seconds away or 15 minutes away. All situations are not the same, but in this case ups is correct. Lunch starts when u break trace and u should be back on trace when lunch is over. If u have an office job, and lunch is from 1200-100, your lunch starts at 1200, not when u reach the cafeteria.

If you have an office job, the office is heated and there is a bathroom down the hall.

I see road crews, construction crews, contractors, house painters etc. all the time out in the country, and their employers pay to have a porta-potty delivered out to the job site. It is part of the cost of doing business. UPS, on the other hand, does not provide porta-potties at suitable intervals along my trace, and since they made a decision to hire a human being to run this route then they are going to have to make reasonable allowances for that human being to use the delivery vehicle in order to locate suitable restroom facilities.If the expense of doing so is such an unreasonable burden, then the company is free to either (a) stop providing delivery service to rural areas or (b) develop and mass produce a robot that can drive and deliver packages without the need to urinate or defecate. The funny thing is, this was never even an issue prior to Telematics being installed. Now that we can measure it, we can manage it....and once we can manage it, then by God we are gonna micromanage it to the most ridiculous extremes. Lets go ahead and have that 30 minute meeting with a sup, a center manager, a driver and his shop steward and we can break out the map books and Google Earth and figure out just how far the driver can go in order to find a spot to sit down and make a poopie.

 

[BMWMC]

The funny thing is, this was never even an issue prior to Telematics being installed. Now that we can measure it, we can manage it....and once we can manage it, then by God we are gonna micromanage it to the most ridiculous extremes. Lets go ahead and have that 30 minute meeting with a sup, a center manager, a driver and his shop steward and we can break out the map books and Google Earth and figure out just how far the driver can go in order to find a spot to sit down and make a poopie.

Well said.

But, how far will depend on where the package car is from the selected pp poo poo facility. Maybe choices can be made for each delivery section and have 1st 2nd and 3rd choices in case there out of TP, closed, or doesn't have hot water.

With Telemetrics essentially making the definition of innocent until proven guilty, just cause, and a fair days work for fair days pay the caprice of the company I wonder if anything that would require an injection of human empathy would ever be classified as NOT an intent to defraud the company?

" I felt nausea and needed to get some more cold water and maybe hang by the toilet bowl"

" I've got hemorrhoids"

'I cut my finger and needed to wash out the wound and put a bandage on it"

" The stress caused by being watched every second of my day, having every decision second guessed, and worrying if my career, my families livelihood, and my families health insurance will be pulled out from under me. The stressed that out of many choices I choose one that cost the company 1 more minute than the other choices will defined by the company as intent to defraud. So I've got to Sh&t's and P all most every 15 minutes."

 

[soberups]

Well said.

But, how far will depend on where the package car is from the selected pp poo poo facility. Maybe choices can be made for each delivery section and have 1st 2nd and 3rd choices in case there out of TP, closed, or doesn't have hot water.

With Telemetrics essentially making the definition of innocent until proven guilty, just cause, and a fair days work for fair days pay the caprice of the company I wonder if anything that would require an injection of human empathy would ever be classified as NOT an intent to defraud the company?

" I felt nausea and needed to get some more cold water and maybe hang by the toilet bowl"

" I've got hemorrhoids"

'I cut my finger and needed to wash out the wound and put a bandage on it"

" The stress caused by being watched every second of my day, having every decision second guessed, and worrying if my career, my families livelihood, and my families health insurance will be pulled out from under me. The stressed that out of many choices I choose one that cost the company 1 more minute than the other choices will defined by the company as intent to defraud. So I've got to Sh&t's and P all most every 15 minutes."

You worry too much.

Over the last 20 years I have seen a total of (2) successful terminations for stealing time.

Both cases involved a driver who was videotaped by management taking a 90 minute or 2 hour lunch while only recording half an hour. And they did this not once, but several times. In both instances, the driver was dirty and blatantly dishonest and they could not offer any rational explanation for the huge discrepancy between taken vs recorded lunch. In both cases they initially lied and said they only took a half, and once confronted with videotape evidence to the contrary they were toast.

As a steward I have represented drivers who were being questioned over issues like the ones you describe, and when the drivers were HONEST about
their need to use the restroom, break trace etc. then the questioning didnt go anywhere. The company is not going to be successful in terminating somebody for driving 2 miles off area to take a dump.

 

[soberups]

I remember hearing about a case many years ago (prior to Telematics) where a supervisor and center manager called a female driver into the office with her shop steward to question her about why she had been observed by the center manager driving to a grocery store 5 miles off of her route. 3 men and 1 woman in the office, and she looked the center manager right in the eye without skipping a beat and told him she went there to buy tampons. Meeting adjourned!

 

[BMWMC]

I worry because I've seen UPS's dark side. I've seen how UPS uses what ever leverage they have to pressure driver to give then time they had no business demanding. I've had manager also say that UPS isn't the same from one part of the country to the next. From right to work states, the west, the south west, to the mid-Atlantic and the north east.

Mark my words. The Telemetrics deployment across the country is now in its final stages. The 3 year honeymoon you've been on is something you will savor in your memories because its going to end. The concerns I have mentioned and even from your own words UPS management style will converge. A reign of terror will begin first were they know which workers are the weakest links. Sound familiar. Its the same tactic they use on the shop floor. They'll go after those they believe they can intimidate and those they want to make an example of.

Me worry? It's been two weeks and already the dissections and interrogations have begun. The strangest part is although the management has been trained in Telemetrics even they haven't fully made the mental transitions. They still want employee's to "do the job the way the job needs to be done to get the job done" (aka, time units) not by the way the book says to. Most if not all the driver that have locked down on the methods are all now running over allowed by 30 min to 1 hour or more.

When the stories start coming out and anything that hasn't got eye witness notarized statements or documented proof of innocents will be treated as cardinal sin's terminations I promise you I won't say, "I told you so."

Absolute power corrupts absolutely!

 

[toonertoo]

I dont worry, but I know it is a tool to get rid of us older drivers. I had such a bad day Friday, that I know Ill just go from my truck to the office. We are an hour late without trying and then add one of those bad days to it where anything that could slow you down did, and every time you started to catch up, it would be a dolly load from hell, or a customer from the same place, or a call tag that says they are ready when they are not, and your waiting. Or a dock you cant access with 20 heavy pkgs you have to dolly up an entrance with 3 sets of stairs. I was ready to just park and leave the truck and call from the nearest bar. Whatever happens happens, it doesnt matter anymore.

 

[kingOFchester]

I remember hearing about a case many years ago (prior to Telematics) where a supervisor and center manager called a female driver into the office with her shop steward to question her about why she had been observed by the center manager driving to a grocery store 5 miles off of her route. 3 men and 1 woman in the office, and she looked the center manager right in the eye without skipping a beat and told him she went there to buy tampons. Meeting adjourned!

Sorry, but I think she was wrong. She had to know that every 28 days she had a monthly visitor. Many many other jobs would require a female to be prepared for this predictable event. Will an airline land so that a stewardess could get some feminine hygine products? Will a school bus driver be allowed to show up to school late due to not being prepared with pads? Could a female officer blow off a robbery to pick up some tampons? Should a teacher be allowed to leave in the middle of class to get pads? If my teenage daughter left school to buy these type of products, I would have a HUGE issue with that. She would loose cell phone for X amount of time for not being prepared. Sorry, but that should not be an excuse. Had she driven 5 miles to find a sanitary place to "apply" the product, then I would agree.....but to purchase.....sorry UPS should not be paying for the fuel and time for a women to buy a product for an issue that was predictable.

 

[soberups]

Sorry, but I think she was wrong. She had to know that every 28 days she had a monthly visitor. Many many other jobs would require a female to be prepared for this predictable event. Will an airline land so that a stewardess could get some feminine hygine products? Will a school bus driver be allowed to show up to school late due to not being prepared with pads? Could a female officer blow off a robbery to pick up some tampons? Should a teacher be allowed to leave in the middle of class to get pads? If my teenage daughter left school to buy these type of products, I would have a HUGE issue with that. She would loose cell phone for X amount of time for not being prepared. Sorry, but that should not be an excuse. Had she driven 5 miles to find a sanitary place to "apply" the product, then I would agree.....but to purchase.....sorry UPS should not be paying for the fuel and time for a women to buy a product for an issue that was predictable.

You might be right, but in this case neither the center manager nor the sup had any desire whatsoever to discuss the issue further.

 

[kingOFchester]

You might be right, but in this case neither the center manager nor the sup had any desire whatsoever to discuss the issue further.

Also agree with that!!! Had enough issues typing what I did......

 

[dilligaf]

[-]ups[/-] UPS does not have to pay u to find a shady spot to eat. [-]Weather[/-]Whether it be 30 seconds away or 15 minutes away. All situations are not the same, but in this case [-]ups[/-]UPS is correct. Lunch starts when[-] u[/-] you break trace and u should be back on trace when lunch is over. If u have an office job, and lunch is from 1200-100, your lunch starts at 1200, not when u reach the cafeteria.

I am on the clock whenever I am in that seat and responsible for that truck. PERIOD. If I am driving I am being paid. If I have to drive to a spot so I can go to the bathroom or have lunch then I am PAID for that time. The only responsibility that I have is to not make that drive time any more excessive than absolutely necessary. The company's responsibility to me is to PAY me whenever I am DRIVING.

 

[dilligaf]

I remember hearing about a case many years ago (prior to Telematics) where a supervisor and center manager called a female driver into the office with her shop steward to question her about why she had been observed by the center manager driving to a grocery store 5 miles off of her route. 3 men and 1 woman in the office, and she looked the center manager right in the eye without skipping a beat and told him she went there to buy tampons. Meeting adjourned!

Priceless and perfect!! Many years ago a friend of mine was pulled over in a resi area (maybe a dozen blocks between work and home) for speeding. The cop walked up to her door and asked her why she was in such a hurry. She looked at him and without blinking, said "I'm hemorrhaging." She had worn white pants that day and it was very obvious when pointed out. The cop let her go.