Union Politics - 804 members coming soon agitator 2
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always804
Member
Another bad dream last night Tom? I suppose you have proof that they are asking members to bring there ballots into them? Your right, it is against the law to do that. And they know better and I guarantee you they are not doing that. Its also against the law to defame someones reputation and make up lies about them. And I can guarantee you that thats what you are doing to them. You hide behind your computer and remain anonymous and continue to spread lies. But I guarantee youve never stood up at a membership meeting to confront the board on your allegations. We call people like you cowards. Im not even a fan of this contract, for the recored, i am planning on voting NO. But the more i read your nonsense, and blatant and obvious fabrications, I might just vote yes. You are something else. your completely irrelevant to this union and the unions cause.
teamster 804
Well-Known Member
Where were all you guys dishing out all the fire and brimstone on here about our supplement and our board.When our previous board brought us nothing the last three supplements.Where you cheering them on when they let you keep what you had and we gained nothing.Where were you when pension was being mismanaged to the point that they wanted to cut the 25 and out.Were you cheering them on.Where were you when our returns on our annuity were worse than keeping the money under your bed.Were you cheering them on.Where were you when our medical was mismanaged.Where was all the gloom and doom back then, the comments about preserving our local and all the other B/S we read on here.Where were all your big mouths back then at the union meetings, online or wherever.Finally we have a Executive board that gives our local a good pension increase for us and our families and now your concerned about the future of our local.Sure there are concessions there always has been supplement after supplement.But the difference with this supplement is we are getting something for the concession.Everyone jumps up and down about the medical!! They were handed that mess by previous board,drastic changes had to be made to fix it.So if our medical is now in good shape,what would be the next part of our local that needs to be put back in good shape AHHH !! HAAA!! I guess it would have to be our pension.Open your eyes we are moving in the right direction.
Why the fear of VCDs?? They are used every other local in this country. We are so special that ONLY WE should resist it?? Im not hearing complaints about it. It gets us more summer vacation and more opportunities to go FT. Explain what you mean by "give up full time ground cover drivers"?? You seem smart enough not to fall for the "part time drivers" nonsense. Why so skeptical ??Stop listening to the scare mongerers!!I agree... but to give up full time ground cover drivers for a good faith $300 pension raise (yes I know they have it in writing)... nah... I'll pass!
It's easy to point fingers at both regimes, but we must address current circumstances and deal with them accordingly.
Teamster 804, you must be a porter or a car washer who probably has their age and time in and you're just waiting for this to pass to retire.
always804
Member
VCDs are not necessarily a "bad" idea. Simply because if ups hires a bunch of new full time drivers to become cover drivers, what happens to them when the volume isnt there? They get laid off. And Laid off employees arent contributing to our pension either. The part timer who covers my rt will go back to his part time position when I get back. or thats how its supposed to go. The problem I and a lot of others have is the company. They have no integrity, as they have shown especially over the last few years. They take advantage, and they do what they want, and there answer is always, "file a grievance if you dont like it." And yes, I know there is a new panel, you mean to tell me UPS wont find a way to back log this panel like they did the last procedure we had in place? yea, it may work at first, but as they keep violating the contract and firing people for nonsense that docket will be filled up and the panel will be back logged. There is only 30 to 31 days in a month. Im sure we get a lot more than that in grievances a month. People dont trust ups, thats the problem And its going to be hard to get us to trust them after all they have done to us. They have been kicking the sh_ _ out of us. We dont trust them period. They will abuse it, and as always, tell you to file a grievance. The problem with grievances is even when you win, you only win what you should have already had. They want VCDs? fine, but whats the penalty when they use them outside of the scope of what they are designed for? Right now the penalty is they have to create a fulltime job immediately. But isnt that what they should have done before they abused it? So we win something we should have already had? thats not a penalty. There needs to be a real penalty. Maybe a significant monetary penalty. I dont know. Something to make them think twice before the disregard the contract like they have been doing for years and years. A guy gets fired and even if he wins backpay, once again, he won what he should have already had. Meanwhile he lost his house while he was out of work for 18 months. Than he gets backpay at straight time, So he actually loses even though he won his arbitration. UPS should have to pay a significant fine to the employee whom they violated if that grievance is sustained. I just think they should have thought it out more before they agreed to use VCDs. Once again, not a terrible idea. But they should have made the company really pay for there abuse when they abuse it, which they will. I also believe they should have tweaked article 18 section 4. An arbitrator ruled when the two stewards were fired for violating the no strike clause that stewards can be held to a higher standard and fired if the strike is deemed illegal. which in there case it was deemed illegal. The arbitrator had said that since the language was never challenged or changed that local 804 must accept how it is interpreted. So why did they not renegotiate that article?
Are you serious?! VCDs not a bad idea?
Where have VCDs been implemented?? It takes 10years for a part timer to get called in to full time package driver!... Ups will give a lot of vacations in the summer, and then cry that they can't cover because there won't be any qualifying part timers due to "no license, points on their license, suspended license, they can't drive stick shift," etc.!! Then, ups will take this in front of an arbitrator and say that they can't run the business because they don't have qualifying drivers!! Done deal!! Ups will get the OK to hire VCDs off the street like it's already happening everywhere else!!
Finally, ask your BA if this so call pension increase gets implemented would you get two checks,one for $3600 and another for $300.
If so, all of you who might be thinking that ups can't take it away once you retired! you will be very surprise when ups takes it away post retirement!!
REMEMBER is a bonus!!
always804
Member
Now if you read my entire post you would see where i said "I just think they should have thought it out more before they agreed to use VCDs." And I made some points on why I dont think it will work, and you just made another good point why it wont work. Make no mistake, I believe if anyone drives a package car for 8 hours a day UPS should absolutely be required to add monies to the full time pension fund. These are just a few issues I have with VCDs, but like i said earlier, I dont think its a terrible idea, I just believe they didnt think it through fully before agreeing to it. You should read the entire post BEFORE you decide to comment..
Always 804, NO ONE TRUSTS THIS COMPANY!! But this method is used in every other local. I see only about 3 or 4 VCDs per center that will be needed. There will DEFINITELY be enough part timers to fill those spots. Believe me the part timers voted no on the first supplement ONLY because of the healthcare issue. They are very happy about the new FT opportunities. I see you fear the fact that no monies will go to our funds, BUT THAT OCCURS RIGHT NOW WHEN A PART TIMER GOES DRIVING. Until he/she makes does their 40 days, they are still part timers benefit wise (health and pension ). Not too much different then using a VCD for 50 days during the summer. But NOW we are guaranteed 50 new DRIVING positions so they will have to make them FT. Anyway my point is to not be so overly worried about one issue like VCDs. Like I said before, they are used everywhere and the sky has not fallen. Have some faith in our board. They researched this issue thoroughly and I think put in numerous protections against management abuse.
If this vote goes down, the pension increase will be delayed a year. Our retro checks will be further delayed. And Hoffa is that closer to bargaining our supplement!! That is what you want genius??
As for your dream of Tim stepping down (you hate him because he succeeded whereas your old boys failed!!)...NOT HAPPENING!!
Also, genius, Liam IS a Teamster. He pays monthly dues just like anyone else. He also puts in at least 75 hrs a week!!
Agree. I don't know how anyone could hate liam. The guy is the best ba I've seen.
OpenYourEyes
New Member
It will be the next feeder list. UPS will abuse it just like the abuse everything else. And like someone else, their answer will be to file a grievance.
THERE ARE SO MANY THINGS WRONG WITH THIS!!!! STOP DRINKING THE KOOL AID AND OPEN YOUR DAMN EYES!
More Vacation and a Guaranteed Route to Full-Time Jobs
“The purpose of Vacation Coverage Drivers is to provide a pathway to full-time Package Driver jobs for Local 804 members, instead of nonunion drivers from the outside.” So you’re telling us, the membership, that we’ve been doing it all wrong and we should have done it this way before? What pathway? A VCD will work 49 days between Memorial Day to Labor Day and Oct. 15 to Jan. 15 and then get sent back, just like they already do with part timers they use as helpers. That’s almost half the year. The language does exist to protect our current jobs, but doesn’t exist to create new jobs.
Protecting Full-Time Package Driver Jobs
“The contract prohibits UPS from using Vacation Coverage Drivers to prevent the creation of seniority Package Driver jobs.” What kind of contradiction is that? Of course it’s going to prevent the creation of seniority Package Driver jobs! Now, the only way a full time Package Driver job will be created is when UPS creates a new route (which now-a-days is never) . If you have VCDs to cover full time vacations, you will no longer need full time cover drivers in this local! EVER!
No Part-Time Drivers
“VCDs get an 8-hour guarantee and time-and-a-half after eight hours.” When they work (selected times of the year), I’m sure they will.
VCDs Cannot Be Used to Reduce Your Overtime
"Only package drivers on a list to relieve excessive overtime [like the 9.5 list or on an 8-hour request], may have their overtime reduced through the use of VCDs.” Good, so let’s solve the overtime problem with part timers, instead of creating more full time driving jobs and forcing UPS to run more loads every day.
Caps and Penalties
“Escalating violations include that the VCD be paid top Package Driver rate for all VCD hours worked that week. On the third violation in a center, UPS has to create and fill a new Package Driver job.” Great, so when UPS screws up every once in a while and neglects to keep track of this, they’ll just be required to create a job and pay the driver like they would of under our old contract! Not a bad deal considering they don’t often screw up! Too bad they have to do it 3 times! Oh, and we’ll have to take it to the proposed panel too.
Layoff Protections
“No seniority Package Driver will be laid off while Vacation Coverage Drivers are in use in his or her building.” So what, VCDs are only allowed to work when it’s busy anyway.
Enforcement Provision
“Management is required to turn over company records so members can monitor use of VCDs and make UPS pay in case of violations through the new, expedited grievance procedure.” Let’s take UPS’s word for it. When they violate the language, they’ll hold off on any penalties for as long as they can, and let it go to the proposed panel.
Seniority Protections
“Open drivers have route preference over VCDs.” Until UPS says, “needs of the company.”
More Package Driver Jobs
“UPS must create a minimum of 50 Package Driver jobs and fill them by promoting VCDs and others from the full-time driving list” UPS will have to do this anyway due to retirement rate and volume. Look how many driving jobs they created this year, especially after the disaster last peak. They’re not scrambling to open a new building for nothing.
Strict Time Limits & Penalties
“VCDs can only be used from Memorial Day to Labor Day and from Oct. 15 to Jan 15.” You know what UPS will say, “needs of the company, go file.” This board has demonstrated they do not have the ability of enforcing language we currently have, what makes anyone think they’ll be able to tackle something as big as this?
Qualifying Rights - No Second Free Period
“A member who works 50 days in a qualifying period is placed on a qualified list and he or she will not have to complete another Package Driver probationary period.” Seriously? So now instead of 40 days to make seniority (book) it’s 50! ARE YOU KIDDING ME! What about the part-timers who do not become VCDs and want to become full time package drivers, are they at some kind of advantage because they can make their seniority in 40 days or are they at a disadvantage because they didn’t have an opportunity to go on to the “qualified list?”
Pay Rate and Pension Contributions
“VCD's will get the same pay rate and pension contribution as any part-time employee who is in the process of qualifying in Package: $21/hour and their regular part-time benefits”
-Bad news for the full timers: All this will lead to is less part timers contributing to our full time funds.
-Bad news for the part timers: Since it will take you a lot longer to become full time, it’s going to be quite a while before you start contributing pension credits towards your own retirement.
OpenYourEyes
New Member
I have attached a PDF of the above information. Please share amongst concerned members.
Talk about opening your eyes!!
" So you’re telling us, the membership, that we’ve been doing it all wrong and we should have done it this way before? What pathway? A VCD will work 49 days between Memorial Day to Labor Day and Oct. 15 to Jan. 15 and then get sent back, just like they already do with part timers they use as helpers. "
No, first of all peak is NOW COUNTED as days towards making the 50. Secondly, they cannot use someone with less seniority if a vcd is at 49 in order to play games!!Also it is ANOTHER pathway to going full time!!
"it’s going to prevent the creation of seniority Package Driver jobs!"
No, we are GUARANTEED 50 new FT driving jobs in the next 5yrs. Plus 100 new combo 22.3 jobs!!
"So what, VCDs are only allowed to work when it’s busy anyway."
No, they will be used to cover SUMMER vacations, when it is a NOT very busy, save Hampton Ctr out east!!
"So now instead of 40 days to make seniority (book) it’s 50! ARE YOU KIDDING ME! What about the part-timers who do not become VCDs and want to become full time package drivers, are they at some kind of advantage because they can make their seniority in 40 days or are they at a disadvantage because they didn’t have an opportunity to go on to the “qualified list?”"
Part timers can CHOOSE to either go as a VCD or WAIT until they are called from FT driving list.
Its funny you actually took the time to rebut the language RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU!! It is SPELLED OUT in order to PROTECT US and PREVENT ABUSE!! But you must be another "sky is falling nervous nelly"!!
" So you’re telling us, the membership, that we’ve been doing it all wrong and we should have done it this way before? What pathway? A VCD will work 49 days between Memorial Day to Labor Day and Oct. 15 to Jan. 15 and then get sent back, just like they already do with part timers they use as helpers. "
No, first of all peak is NOW COUNTED as days towards making the 50. Secondly, they cannot use someone with less seniority if a vcd is at 49 in order to play games!!Also it is ANOTHER pathway to going full time!!
"it’s going to prevent the creation of seniority Package Driver jobs!"
No, we are GUARANTEED 50 new FT driving jobs in the next 5yrs. Plus 100 new combo 22.3 jobs!!
"So what, VCDs are only allowed to work when it’s busy anyway."
No, they will be used to cover SUMMER vacations, when it is a NOT very busy, save Hampton Ctr out east!!
"So now instead of 40 days to make seniority (book) it’s 50! ARE YOU KIDDING ME! What about the part-timers who do not become VCDs and want to become full time package drivers, are they at some kind of advantage because they can make their seniority in 40 days or are they at a disadvantage because they didn’t have an opportunity to go on to the “qualified list?”"
Part timers can CHOOSE to either go as a VCD or WAIT until they are called from FT driving list.
Its funny you actually took the time to rebut the language RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU!! It is SPELLED OUT in order to PROTECT US and PREVENT ABUSE!! But you must be another "sky is falling nervous nelly"!!
I love how blind these E-Board loving people are thinking that UPS will stick to the contract and not abuse it and that the grievance procedure will work and stop the contract abuse...I just wish that 804 brown and the others come out and say..."we are willing to sell out the future of everyone else so we can retire and collect an extra $300/month which is how much the family medical for retirees has increased since this board took over"...just say that and I will have a tad more respect for what u r saying than the garbage u r currently spewing
I think we should give Peter a shot, after all he did say he could run this union solo. Be-sides Tim is busy, I hear he is having a $10,000.00 dollar jacuzzi installed in his mansion in Vermont . Pete may get this union together. One thing I don't want you row B suck-ups to forget, these guys in the E/B said a lot of lies to get we're they are and they had help, you may disagree but TDU owns one third of this union, they bought into it, gave this so called Ron C loyalist a lot of money in return , got TDU lawyers inside the union hall,Tim S and company maybe the face of the local but TDU calls the shots. Lets us not forget UPS owns the other third, why is it that our local and UPS is pushing this supplement thru, and they are trying to divide us by getting the P/T to vote on it, that is why they had P/T members only in the meetings at the hall, in their meetings in the parking lots. If this vote gos thru, we are done. VOTE NO!
teamster 804
Well-Known Member
One guys on here puts it as E board loving people another puts it as Row b suckups.Personally i pay my dues no matter who is in the hall,do you two numbnuts also pay dues.Let me see ,just like you pay dues would go to a bank and give your money to the teller on the left because you knew him for years even though he is giving you no interest on your money or would you give your money to the teller on the right who is offering you interest on your money.Lets give another example for the kids playing along.If you went to the hospital and there were two doctors standing there,the first doctor you know him for years but for one reason or another everyone in your family that has gone to him was never cured or had there medical issue resolved by him.Then there was this other doctor that you are not that familier with offered a cure for what ails you and will get you back on your feet in no time.Now you are paying your Dues! Ohh!! i mean your money to either one of these doctors,the one with the bad track record or the one that is going to fix what ails you and get you back on your feet.Which one do you choose.So you ask what is the moral of these two B/S stories you ask?? The moral is we are all paying dues whether it is Row A ,Row B, C,D, OR friend who gives a friend who it is.They work for us managing our local managing our supplements!!!Do you want something in your supplement for what you pay in dues!!Or do you want nothing in your supplement making this our fourth supplement coming up empty for your dues money. Spend your dues wisely!!!
Yeah! If you have eyes up your butt!
your right fedupups , but these members your talking about are also UPS suck ups. You see I know these guys, I am in their center, they are the biggest company ***** wipes would could ever know. Think of the worst guy you know, the runner that UPS wants you to be like and times that image by ten. That who is posting here. They are the fence sitters, if they are on here, they are the heros. In front of management, they are on their knees.end of story. VOTE NO!
teamster 804
Well-Known Member
Now that was one hell of an intelligent post Tom.Keep up the good work.Hey anyone of you guys that are against this supplement on here you can keep Tom on your side, he is too far gone for us,we will accept his no vote.By the way Tom they called from the special yellow bus company,they are going to be a little late tommorrow to pick you up for work ok buddy.
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