Warning Letter For Injury

[kidlogic]

I am safety co-chair at my center. Every year at the start of the year I can tell with about 70 to 80% accuracy who will be hurt. Just get out the OR. Look at who isnt taking lunches and breaks and who is 30 minutes or more paid under and you will have who be hurt. Are they doing things wrong DUHHHHHHHHHH! But they wait until it starts to be a problem to start the warning letters on these guys. Why???? Because of how good the managers look with these guys. You wonder why the letters dont come first?? because business as ussual starts with production first saftey second. If a worker gets a warning letter first accident. He isnt the best employee as far as the company sees. The runners and gunners have to have multiples. Proups your day dream might be right if it wasnt for UPS's industry's leading injury record. You just cant look the other way when employees are working unsafe but being very productive. Then when someone gets hurt you give them a warning letter. We all see on a daily bases people working unsafe but no one says anything.(if you say you dont then your blind).

 

[tieguy]

"What we did took a lot of work, imagination, and the finger pointing was at ourselves. When someone gets hurt, we view it as our failure. THe blame stops with us. Your way, you are perfect and all the blame gets put on the injured employee."

Actually you've made my point. Individual behavior is the problem and you've recognized that. In fact the warning letter concept is not "mine" and not one I've ever followed. Your part of this debate has been against the warning letter my point has been recognizing that individual have control over the injuries. I think we're both saying the same thing with this post.

 

[tieguy]

"Every year at the start of the year I can tell with about 70 to 80% accuracy who will be hurt. Just get out the OR. Look at who isnt taking lunches and breaks and who is 30 minutes or more paid under and you will have who be hurt."

I wish i could say the same thing Kid , the solution would be so simple then. I see some of the type that you describe getting hurt I also see just as many mules that run 2 hours over getting hurt.

 

[dannyboy]

We have one in our center that is a frequent "repeater". Works at 8am even though the start time is 8:50, flies down the interstate and all side roads, never takes lunch, breaks etc. Not only has he been hurt several times a year, he has also had several accidents and a roll-a-way.

THen we have one that takes at least an hour, at least the 10 minute break and any other time he wants, and gets beat on a regular basis. And he was the second most frequent to get hurt.

What do they all have in common......? Lack of proper training. And I mean REAL safety rides, not just the BS 5 minute thing that most sups do. This is a ride where the sup documents EVERYTHING on the ride that is unsafe, driver proceedure, package car problems, or unsafe conditions at the customer delivery area. Every thing. But usually that takes too much time, and the sup is more worried about #'s.

Both of these drivers were trained by the same sup so go figure about the production. But the safety, now that is obvious, skip over safety, and it will ocme back to bite. Between these two drivers we had 13 injuries over the last 3 years... and none in the last 16 months. Why? Because we made it our point to know what was going on, and management MADE them go to the safety meetings for 6 months as part of the safety follow up. THey started to get the picture, that to be safe, they had to work safe, no shortcuts. And you know what, its working! Give the warning letters a rest after the fact, give them out when you have told someone about an unsafe working condition, and they refuse to change the behaviour, that is when it is needed and will do the most good.

d

 

[dannyboy]

We have one in our center that is a frequent "repeater". Works at 8am even though the start time is 8:50, flies down the interstate and all side roads, never takes lunch, breaks etc. He regularly beats the standards by at least 1 1/2 or more hours and is back in the building by 3:30 or 4. Not only has he been hurt several times a year, he has also had several accidents and a roll-a-way.

THen we have one that takes at least an hour, at least the 10 minute break and any other time he wants, and gets beat on a regular basis. And he was the second most frequent to get hurt.

What do they all have in common......? Lack of proper training. And I mean REAL safety rides, not just the BS 5 minute thing that most sups do. This is a ride where the sup documents EVERYTHING on the ride that is unsafe, driver proceedure, package car problems, or unsafe conditions at the customer delivery area. Every thing. But usually that takes too much time, and the sup is more worried about #'s.

Both of these drivers were trained by the same sup so go figure about the production. But the safety, now that is obvious, skip over safety, and it will ocme back to bite. Between these two drivers we had 13 injuries over the last 3 years... and none in the last 16 months. Why? Because we made it our point to know what was going on, and management MADE them go to the safety meetings for 6 months as part of the safety follow up. THey started to get the picture, that to be safe, they had to work safe, no shortcuts. And you know what, its working!

Give the warning letters a rest after the fact, give them out when you have told someone about an unsafe working condition, and they refuse to change the behaviour, that is when it is needed and will do the most good.

d

 

[dannyboy]

Hey Kid L

MAybe what we need to do is compare notes and see what is working and what is not. And if you really want to get things moving, get the union involved. Other drivers will understand that safety in our centers is real, not just some scame like in the past ( yeah OK, I swallowed when i shoulda spit).

And management has to be behind it 110% for it to work, if the hourly sense that they are not, then you WILL fail no matter how hard you try.

What district are you in? If you feel uneasy about posting on this board just message me. I really would like to see a whole year without any fatalities or major injuries, but that is probably imposible. But what we can do is make our small part of the brown pie as safe as we can, and look out for our fellow employee as well.

d

 

[upslocal480]

I am an example of how someone can follow correct/safe work procedures and still get hurt. I injured some of the muscles in my left ribs last Monday night and even though I don't remember any point in that night where I felt pain in that area I do know that it wasn't caused by not lifting correctly or anything like that. The pain was first felt when I woke up the next morning. I told the doctor this and she said you can bruise ribs or strain the muscles just by holding something heavy against them and not even feel the strain like I didn't. I always hold heavy packages in the "power zone" but sometimes they are pretty big. In my case though the position of the trailer I load plays a part in it. I have to lift each package on to the rollers of the trailer because there is no shoot or ramp going to the trailer. It is just backed up to the dock next to the package cars. Some of the packages I get are big and can't fit in between the rollers and the side of the trailers in the belly so I have to lift them up on the trailers. Other people have gotten hurt by not bending properly or trying to pick each and every smaller package up with one hand without testing them and things like that. For drivers here it seems our injuries are on the same trend as what has been mentioned here. Most of the guys that get in early every day are the ones that get hurt. The older more experienced drivers frown on them and work a little slower and safer and don't mind occasionally getting harrassed by management for comming in later. I believe if you can work fast and still be safe then you should do it. Otherwise we all should work safe first then worry about speed and realize that the people that need and depend on us (customers and management) need us to be injury free and healthy. We are no good to anyone hurt and working like a maniac unsafely hurts us and those that depends on us in the long run.

 

[kidlogic]

First Tie it is that easy. I wasnt kidding this true.I have been right 5 years in a row and no I dont know Miss Cleo . You also are missing a simple concept. The attitude toward the company of the runner and gunner. It is in most part a very posite one. He believes he or she is doing good for the company and himself. Also UPS has the ability with the runner and gunner to turn him into a safer worker because of the attitude. But do they???? no no no no!!!! production production production....UPS sees the big paid under and turns the other way until something goes wrong. I say again go get the OR and you will see. I have talked with my states Managment saftey guy and he confirms my logic. You can always find some exception to the rule. My logic is that of all the people that actual be changed to work safer we fail to target them. I see the safty report each month and I am right on the money. You cant turn the 2 hour paid over guy.
Instead of pointing to the exception Tie why not hop to the side of Logic. Help the most people you can help.The people who want to be good UPSERS but need alittle guidance to know that this job is a marathon not a sprint. Do the job the right way and be close to scratch. Running and gunning will only lead to injuries and poor service. What bothers me Tie is a guy like me who gives PCMs and demonstrations on saftey in which I spend hours and hours off the clock preparing. Does research that has changed UPS policy in my state. Has to split hairs with managment who defend the runners and gunners until they become a problem driver then ask for saftey committee help. I would rather make a good driver with a good attitude a safer driver then wait until a driver becomes a problem ,gets a warning letter then try to make him a better driver. That seems like a very simple simple solution which managment should embrace. Try not to play devils advocate on this one Tie. Its not part of the solution,but will prolong the problem.

 

[tieguy]

"You can always find some exception to the rule."

like I've said before I have not found exceptions I've found the mule gets hurt as much as the runner. I've also found the mule is much more likely to take the minor injury and make a big deal out of it requiring time off. Turn a sprained ankle into a 6 week outage right at christmas. etc.

 

[dannyboy]

Hey tie guy

Why do you think they used the mule?

Cause he could get more work done over the long haul than a horse. He could do work, under conditions that would kill a horse. Horses were great for speed, but mules could carry more farther on less food and water, and did not require much upkeep.

So first off you are being derogatory to mules. Secondly we are UPS drivers, not just some animal or thing to get to your objective. You think maybe THAT is why so many employees feel that they need a union, because you have NO respect for them? All drivers are not created equally.

Kinda like having a retarded child after having one that is normal or gifted. Ya just gonna keep letting poor behavior rule or are you going to work with that child to raise them to the fullest potential? And I mean get them to want to do better, not beat them over the head with bull.

d

 

[kidlogic]

As I predicted. Tie looked away from all the good in my post and played devils advocate. He also negated data in which UPS gave out to all managment. The main group reasonsible for accidents and injuries is an employee of 5 years and less. Are there more mules as he calls them or runners and gunners with the 5 years or less. That is easy runners and gunners. I hate when people ignore the facts and opionize just to say the opposite...

 

[tieguy]

Not really You spoke of your own observations I spoke of mine. No evil plot here.

 

[kidlogic]

like I said my post was about making MORE PEOPLE SAFER,BUT YOU CHOSE TO refute runners and gunner as being equally unsafe as mules.Like I said devil advocate looking for a negative stance.A spade is a spade.

 

[upsfeedersdsm]

Check with your workers comp office in our state it is aganst the law to be disciplined for an injury. It happened to me and I brought that to their att. and they removed my letter,but If He failed to file a report right away then thats a different story.

 

[tieguy]

"like I said my post was about making MORE PEOPLE SAFER,BUT YOU CHOSE TO refute runners and gunner as being equally unsafe as mules.Like I said devil advocate looking for a negative stance.A spade is a spade."

That is absolutely unbelievable!!!!! You couldn't let be happy with just discussing differences in opinions now you have to call me a racial slur. What kind of psycho are you?

 

[kidlogic]

A spade is a spade is a reference to cards. Meaning that card is always going to be a spade no matter what. It is a common analogy. Racial slur.....ummmm no. The problem is that when ever you are run over with LOGIC and facts you revert to this childish name calling. Just answer the question are there more mules with 5 or less years in with the company or more runners with 5 or less years in?? Since most of our accidents and injuries come from people with 5 or less years in ( FACT!!! giving out at the NNE saftey conference earlier this year to Managment and union co_chairs of this district). If you say there are an equal number you would incoherently wrong.This a no spin zone so please be direct and supply us all with real data and if you must degrade all managment people by name calling...dont .I have many managment friends... Just dont post anything. It is the civil thing to do.

 

[deliver_man]

Just answer the question are there more mules with 5 or less years in with the company or more runners with 5 or less years in??

That's really not a fair question, and probably impossible to answer objectively. 1st you have to define your terms, ie., what exactly constitutes a runner, and what exactly constitutes a mule? And the fact is that even if you do that, most drivers will not fall neatly into one category or the other. There are guys who usually take their lunch, and skip it when they want to get done earlier. I know guys who are pretty strong methods drivers but still bust ass and put up decent numbers. I also know guys who don't know the methods and do all types of unsafe things but still run over allowed. You also have to factor in the effect of the timestudy on a particular route. We all know the timstudies are skewed. If a guy gets on a big bonus route with no late pickups, 9 times out of 10 he's gonna tear it up and take the early day with 2 hours bonus. Put the same guy on a route with a lousy study and a late pickup, and he's likely to decide that it's not worth the effort to run all day (that guy would be me). To get a real, objective answer to the question you are asking tieguy, you would need some outside agency to come in and do a longterm study. There is just no way that one guy, working, in one center, can give you anything but a subjective answer based on his own experience.

 

[dannyboy]

Delivery man

While you are correct in your statement of the minute area of information, the fact stays the same. The vast majority of all injuries/accidents happen to those drivers that have been there less than 5 years. In our center, they make up 55% of total drivers. And account for 87% of all injuries, and 91% of all accidents. While I realize 112 drivers are a small sample, the numbers have remained the same over the last three years.

Of this bunch, most are productive and honest drivers. There is one that likes to play games with stops. Have seen him take lunch for at least an hour, and every 4-6 minutes hit pre-record, stop complete. He does this for the whole hour he is sitting there. Or since he has a lawn service on the side, he mows lawns during lunch, while showing he is delivering. Then when he gets back to the building he take an hour and ten. He is one of the golden boys that produce so they leave him alone, both on production and on injuries/accidents.

We also have other drivers that run scratch, that take their lunch, hustle all day and give the company their monies worth. Management is in their case all the time. And we are not on the bonus system, as management was very uneven as to what a stop is from driver to driver.

But I digress. On Christmas Eve I watched, in horror, a "runner" make 5 or 6 deliveries. The whole time he NEVER used his seat belt, pulled into driveways instead of backing (one had a 10 foot wooden privacy fence right beside the driveway that went all the way to the sidewalk, he had to back all the way out before he could even see what was comming from his blind side). I counted over 10 major safety violations that could have caused and accident. He never closed the bulkhead, jumped out of the package car, ran to the stop,and ran back and jumped into the car.

Pure and simple he is an accident/injury just waiting for a place to happen. He also goes through his truck hours before start time. All this points to not being trained in the proper methods and lack of safety training. Or he has totally disregared all training given to up his production and get in early. All this with managements blessing. Kinda funny but many in his delivery unit have the same manager that trained them, and also have the same problems. And their unit accounts for 89% of all injuries and 82% of accidents. At one time it was 100% for both. My 21 driver unit has 13 of the top 15 in center delivery seniority, and the injuries and accidents are negligable. And their production is not one bit better than ours.


The sample is small, but I think (and the corp. numbers on safety support)that many of the "runners" are doing their jobs very unsafely and therefor need to be targeted to improve the safety performance. That is what we have done over the last 2 1/2 years and it seems to be working(I thought till I saw the guy in the 700 Christmas Eve). It seems we still have a lot of room for improvement.

d

 

[kidlogic]

Well danny has supported with my post with facts. You have any facts TIE...not opinions facts like the one me and danny used to make our points

 

[tieguy]

In fact you have no facts and neither did i. We did have opinion based on personal observations. your apparently conceited enough to think your opinion is fact.