Warning Letter For Injury

[tieguy]

"A spade is a spade is a reference to cards"

Okie dokie did not know we were discussing cards. Which game poker, war or blackjack?

"The problem is that when ever you are run over with LOGIC and facts you revert to this childish name calling."

No more childish than your inability to except that my observations are different than yours.

 

[kidlogic]

Facts I got were from the North NewEngland Saftey conference held last spring where I sat with the people giving the conference. I am merely reflecting the information giving by the good managment people who put on the conference. If you say they are wrong then great one of the problems I have with the managment is Managment 's lack of commitment to the saftey committee . I shall bring your post as an example of the head in the sand approach to saftey.(your not going to some how make that analogy a racial slur?) You didnt answer the question I put forth to you. And how did I know you wouldnt answer?
I didnt say I didnt accept your opinion. I said It has no foundation to stand on. It has nothing to show for merrit and was wrong. But most of your post have an anti-worker spin to them so it was to be expected.
Mine was backed by managment people so you would think you would agree with there findings giving the great gains we have had in saftey but that would be pro-worker and have to admit there are needs for change in UPS. Also Jonny who is a saftey co-chair came in with data proving my point.
"In fact you have no facts and neither did i. We did have opinion based on personal observations. your apparently conceited enough to think your opinion is fact."
Coceit had nothing to do with it. I got the facts straight from UPS and passed it on. Yours was based on an anti-worker opinion.
Let me guess your going to start the name calling.

 

[tieguy]

Perhaps I have misunderstood your information I certainly would never ever in my wildest dreams intend the dispute the statistical merits of the New England Safety conference. Could you possibly explain one thing to me so I may better understand this valuable information you have shared with us from the New England Safety Conference. How were they able to statistically quantify the term "runner"? Please explain how they did that so I can better appreciate this valuable information you were kind enough to share with stupid old me from the great and mighty New England Safety Conference.

 

[kidlogic]

Described them as fine young men with less then 5 years senority who are looking to get their work done a little faster then should be safley done. But because of their lack a experience really dont know where the line of saftey and production come together. The job of the saftey committee is help show them that their job is both production and saftey. A point which sometimes the new employee doesnt get until after an injury or accident. Both of which the saftey committee is trying to proactively keep from happening. But that employee is called a runner and gunner to anyone who has any time at UPS. (((the term runner gunner is no way ment to be a racial slur)))

 

[mashby813]

I don't think it's fair to say that runners are the majority of the injuries. Maybe it is that way in your center but I know in our center it is spread pretty evenly throughout the drivers. I do think they are likely to have an injury due to the fact that they are new and want to do a good job so they run a bit more than the rest of us. I think the management needs to get rid of the time sheets and stop telling the new drivers they have to check them every morning. Why add that pressure to them when they already have enough to deal with everyday. Especially since time sheets are not negotiated in the contract.

 

[kidlogic]

Mash the post started on the guys you can help. if you think about it. Do you think you can change the habits of a new employee or some 10 year. Plus they werent my facts ...I just past them on..I due agree with your post . You may find in your center an equal dispersment but you can see easily how young guys who might run a bit can be at a higher risk. The problem is that young runners and gunners who do have an accident have a greater chance of being a repeater. Those are the guys who are hurting UPS. Thats why this post started. UPS at that meeting said that 30% of the people are causing 80% of the problems.Thats why UPS is being so agressive with the warning letters. Trying to prevent the repeater. Knowing that after a young guy gets hurt he is most likely to be hurt again that year. Good thinking bad approach.

(Message edited by kidlogic on December 27, 2002)

 

[dannyboy]

Tie Guy

I dont have a problem with you being black, so why do you have a problem with being black?

d

 

[kidlogic]

DANNY HE CALLS HIMSELF STUPID ON HIS LAST POST THEN INSULTS HIS FELLOW MANAGMENT. THE MAN HATES HIMSELF.

 

[tieguy]

This conversation is now going into the bizarre. I guess you feel threatened trying to have a civilized discussion of the issues.

 

[tieguy]

"Described them as fine young men with less then 5 years senority who are looking to get their work done a little faster then should be safley done"

I'm sorry I didn't see any quotation marks on this definition, would this mean that you forgot to use these quotations or is this one of your "factual" interpretations?

 

[kidlogic]

Like they would come out and say""" We want all saftey committee and managment people to make sure that all the people who are 1 hour paid under to make them stop""" You still have never answered my post do you think more people under5 years of senority are runners or mules ..How come you dont???? We all know why.
Come on ..If you think they would say that you dont work at UPS.They said it like I posted before.Remember there were other managment people there. Your still dancing. I have 2 other people who have spoke in favor on my post. Mash and Danny...you have none. Hmmmmm...............wonder why.............(((none of this post was a racial slur)))))) And please stop calling yourself names it makes other managment look bad. "information you were kind enough to share with stupid old me " that was your post

 

[deliver_man]

I don't know why you guys insist on making this topic such a personal matter. It really is possible to disagree about this and still remain civil. The bottom line is that there has been no outside agency to come in and do a definitive study, with a strict interpretation of what a mule is and what a runner is, and produce hard numbers to back any particular theory. The only question that is not in dispute is that most accidents involve drivers with 5 years or less. Whether or not those drivers were running when they had accidents has not been established. The common denominator here is not how fast they were working, but how long they had been with the company. Period. Any further embellishment of that figure is going to be subjective and based predominately on the viewers perception of what the problem is.

 

[kidlogic]

D M do you really think based of your own experiences with UPS that there are more Mules under 5 years then above . Do you really need a study for that......

 

[deliver_man]

Of course I have my own opinion, Kid, but without a real study it's just that, my opinion. Let me give you a few examples why it's important to do a real scientific study, even when the answer may seem obvious. At one time everybody believed that the earth was the center of the universe. I mean it was obvious, right? All you had to was look at the sky, and you could see that the sun revolved around the earth, as did the moon. Over time even the stars moved in relation to the earth. Nobody questioned this fact until Galileo came along, did a scientific study, and proved that reality was in fact, quite different from perception. Another belief at the time was that heavier objects fell faster than light objects. I mean, it just makes sense right? If you think about it, a 50lb rock is gonna fall faster than a 1/2lb rock, it just makes sense. Noone questioned this fact, until Galileo (again) did some actual tests and proved that all objects, no matter their weight, fall at the same rate of speed. It may seem obvious to me that a "runner" will have more accidents than a "mule", but I also know enough to know that perception is NOT reality, and that nothing is a "fact" until it has been proven in an objective, scientific test.

 

[tieguy]

"You still have never answered my post do you think more people under5 years of senority are runners or mules"

Never thought it a serious question. They would clearly be both.

 

[tieguy]

"I don't know why you guys insist on making this topic such a personal matter. It really is possible to disagree about this and still remain civil."

Actually I've tried to keep this one civil unfortunately Kid has not followed suit. Perhaps some of the other posters on this board can help him find his control. He clearly has preconcieved biases against management and therefore continously attacks by putting words in my mouth and stereotyping a non-existent perception on my part. I'm not sure why he feels so threatened. His attacking behavior certainly appears to be completely out of character with the model employee he has described himself as.

 

[dannyboy]

You made it personal when you attempted to play the race card.

Hey kid, dont go beating your head against his brick wall, even after I offered the hard data about safety, he still wants to argue the facts with his opinion. Let it go. He isnt worth the time. Spend it instead on coming up with new Ideas to make a difference in safety at your place.

d

 

[kidlogic]

Thanks Danny ...i am going to leave Mr. Opinion alone. I deal with facts and people not what ever he puts out.

 

[tieguy]

Actually posting such without the slander would be a refreshing change of pace for you. I would welcome such a maturation on your part.

 

[dannyboy]

Hey Tie guy, to slander is to make a statement which without due cause brings its subject into disrepute. I dunknow man, I think he has you nailed. Before someone can slander you, you have to be right, or in the right. So unless you can prove him wrong, he cant be guilty of slandering you. Instead you are the one guilty of slander. So what is it gonna be there big guy?

d