Weingarten Rights - Right to union representation

[Brownslave688]

I just don't understand why everything at UPS has to be made into a big deal. It's stupid quite frankly

Don't try to UNDERSTAND this place. It'll drive you crazy.

 

[joeboodog]

Lol, I really need to learn these guys' titles. I just know them as management, and which ones report to the others. I feel like I've worked here too long to not know what their titles are, but it always seemed pretty trivial to me in the past.

I've been at UPS for over thirty years and I can't keep the players straight without a score card.

 

[oldngray]

I've been at UPS for over thirty years and I can't keep the players straight without a score card.

Plus some are switch hitters.

 

[OPTION3]

Let the sup escalate the discipline.....you can not be disciplined 2times for the same incident.....verbally disciplining you then writing in Pitts form....then warning letter will not work....it will be thrown out....all of them

 

[HardknocksUPSer]

Don't try to UNDERSTAND this place. It'll drive you crazy.

No kiddin, atleast management will be gone before us hourlies will lol

 

[FrigidAdCorrector]

I appreciate that kind of response coming from you, Frigid (from your postings on here I've come to assume you're in management, is what I mean).

I'm an Operations Supervisor.

Sounds like a sort manager. I think of them like the breakfast shift manager at McDonalds. Bottom of the management rung and most likely the highest he will ever go. Unless he gets demoted which is more often the case. We had a Labor Manager be demoted to Preload manager to On car sup.

Aw thanks for the support! Means a lot.

 

[Catatonic]

Lol, I really need to learn these guys' titles. I just know them as management, and which ones report to the others. I feel like I've worked here too long to not know what their titles are, but it always seemed pretty trivial to me in the past.

Don't worry about it, spend your time learning the Kaiser Rolls ... safety comes first.

 

[TooTechie]

First, sign NOTHING except your paycheck and required goverment forms. You have the contractual right to refuse to sign anything that could lead to or be used in progressive discipline. You have a right to representation under federal law anytime a conversation with management could result in any form of discipline.

What the supervisor said is against the law under the national labor relations act and your BA could file an unfair labor practice charge with the NLRB. Stand up for yourself and arm yourself with knowing the law and your rights. Next time request a steward. If one is not available advise the sup you'll continue the conversation once one is present. If he persists advise him you're filing a harassment grievance and refuse to answer any questions, as is your right.

 

[jibbs]

First, sign NOTHING except your paycheck and required goverment forms. You have the contractual right to refuse to sign anything that could lead to or be used in progressive discipline. You have a right to representation under federal law anytime a conversation with management could result in any form of discipline.

What the supervisor said is against the law under the national labor relations act and your BA could file an unfair labor practice charge with the NLRB. Stand up for yourself and arm yourself with knowing the law and your rights. Next time request a steward. If one is not available advise the sup you'll continue the conversation once one is present. If he persists advise him you're filing a harassment grievance and leave the area.

Committing this post to memory now...

After walking away, isn't it likely that I'll be fired for job abandonment? I was under the impression grievances were not to be written on-the-clock.

 

[TooTechie]

Committing this post to memory now...

After walking away, isn't it likely that I'll be fired for job abandonment? I was under the impression grievances were not to be written on-the-clock.

You're not a steward so you don't write the grievance, but a steward may investigate and file grievances on the clock. Your steward will ask you for a statement.

To clarify what I wrote above (I edited it for posterity sake), under Weingarten you have the right to refuse to answer any questions if the company does not provide a requested steward, however Weingarten itself doesn't give you the right to leave such a meeting, only to refuse to answer. My BA has always said to tell members to get out of the room if a sup tries this and won't agree to provide a steward as there is no witness and the sup can say anything was said/happened. Use caution with that though because you don't have a legal right to leave the area/end the meeting--it's just what our BA says. He actually gets upset if a steward goes into a room 1-on-1 with management to discuss an issue as there is no witness. To answer your question: it wouldn't be job abandonment as you're not leaving work--it could be construed as insubordination in some situations, however once a grievance and/or a ULP was filed, it would be unlikely they'd push that point if a sup had refused you a steward.

When your sup attempted to discourage you from having a steward present and suggested the discipline would be more severe, he violated Section 8(a)(1) of the National Labor Relations Act of 1935. This violation is specifically referred to as "attempt to dissuade" and is an unfair labor practice.

It's also good to note that Weingarten doesn't apply in situations where the meeting is just to advise you that you're being disciplined. If it is not an investigatory meeting where any questions are asked, Weingarten doesn't apply. You should still request a steward and it's UPS' policy to provide one if asked, but strictly speaking, Weingarten doesn't apply in that type of meeting. Once questions start getting asked though, then all bets are off and Weingarten applies again.

By the way, if Weingarten applies and you request a specific steward who isn't available, but they offer you another steward, Weingarten requires that management must end the meeting if you do not agree to the other steward. It would probably piss off a BA and the other steward if you pulled that, but just letting you know about that loop hole in the law.

 

[imwell]

Because, in my mind, signing RTS is still signing. A signature doesn't have to be your name-- it can be a symbol for all an uninformed 3rd party is concerned.

jibbs makes an EXCELLENT point that everyone needs to be aware of: RTS means REFUSE TO SIGN. Refuse to Sign means you REFUSE to put ANYYHING on whatever piece of paper they put before you. It doesn't matter if you put your name, anyone else's name, your initials, the initials of RTS, a star, a checkmark, an "X", whatever. Once you put anything on that piece of paper, UPS can then say that they have presented you with that documentation. You have seen that documentation. And you have responded to / acknowledged that documentation by reason of your written response (whatever that written response may have been).

I know this to be true because (I'm embarrassed to admit) shortly after I started partime with UPS back in '85, I accepted a job as a P/T Supervisor for a few years before I went friend/T driving. One of the first things I was taught to do, whenever I would present an employee with any documentation that they did not want to sign (aka: RTS), I was told to say: "That's fine. I understand. Then just write RTS down on the signature line. That way, everyone can tell that you "Refused to Sign" this document". That "RTS" was just as valid as their own name. What a horrible trick management played. Again, I'm embarrassed to admit it. I was young and dumb and drinking the Kool-Aid.

Sorry for the long post, but trying to prove a major point to everyone here. If you make the decision to 'Refuse To Sign' any piece of documentation, you need to do just that: Refuse to sign / write / put ANYTHING onto that piece of paper.

Hope this has been helpful.

 

[clean hairy]

As I understand it, a Warning Letter is an accusation.
If an Employee signs a Warning Letter, then it is considered an admission by the Employee of the wrongdoing they are accused of.
A grievance then cannot be filed.
The Employer can write RTS on the Warning Letter, and the Steward signs to confirm that the Employee refused to sign, then a grievance can be filed to protest the warning letter.
Also, the Employee and Steward are entiteld to copies of the Letter prior to leaving the meeting.
This is my understanding.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Sign it, don't sign it----you will still be expected to comply with whatever directive or discipline is on that piece of paper.

Signing a warning letter is an acknowledgement that you received and reviewed it, not an admission of guilt, and you can still grieve a WL even though you signed it.

 

[Dr.Brownz]

Yesterday was a bad day, I'll admit that. I had one truck look ed because of all the bulk PALed to the floor with near empty shelves. Supe ran an audit after driver complained, gave me 20%. The 20% I "was given" was for no misloads and no damaged packages.

Today the supervisor makes a bee-line for me with the audit in hand, pictures, all that good . We start getting into it because apparently just because something's PALed to a specific area doesn't mean you have to put it there (though that's pretty much the opposite of what I was told when they started giving me these "LIVE ORION LOADS"). Whatever, that's cool. Then he asked me to sign. I told him I'd need to speak with a steward before I write anything on that paper. He responded, and I quote, "If we have to get union reps involved then this is going to go past words." That confused me. I felt he was threatening retaliation for exercising my Weingarten Right to union representation, and was truthfully momentarily intimidated into signing that gosh darn mother ing piece of ing piece of paper.

My plan was to grab a steward when the drivers came in (there isn't one on the preload) and run the situation by him to gauge his opinion and receive some advice as to how to proceed here, if there's even anything to proceed with. Unfortunately, I was pegged to do add-cuts on my belt and every steward I know of had left the building by the time I was off the clock and free to go find one.




I realize I likely missed my boat here by letting myself get stressed into signing. I'm more curious as to how you guys think this kind of situation should be handled if it were to arise again. Also (and forgive my legal wording here), is there a statute of limitations on bringing these kinds of issues to your union rep? I'm assuming that I may have to go digging through my copy of the master and/or supplement to find out the specifics on that for me, just kind of hopin' on a prayer that one of youse guys already knows the answer.

Why didn't you look for a steward on break?

Refuse to sign next time. Then they can pull you into the office and you get to sit there on the clock while they tell you BS

 

[Dr.Brownz]

Lol, I really need to learn these guys' titles. I just know them as management, and which ones report to the others. I feel like I've worked here too long to not know what their titles are, but it always seemed pretty trivial to me in the past.

It's all trivial. None of them can just fire you.

 

[olroadbeech]

sounds like you have an attitude problem ( im not a manager ) and you rub bosses the wrong way and they want you out.

the best advice is what was given me years ago by an old timer. lawyer up. tell your supervisors up front that if they are going to discipline you they have to have a steward present. without one present you do not have to speak a word.

do that a couple times and they will go fishing elsewhere.

btw. I was having the same problems as you until I took that advice. and I DO have attitude problem.

 

[jibbs]

Why didn't you look for a steward on break?

Refuse to sign next time. Then they can pull you into the office and you get to sit there on the clock while they tell you BS

My center has no breaks. I'm not even allowed cigarette breaks anymore (new manager's rule), meanwhile he allows PT supes to pull for hourlies while they go out and have a 15min smoke break (one of the reasons I feel like I'm personally being targeted).

But yeah. No breaks. Even if we did have them, there isn't a union steward on the preload shift in my center. Hasn't been for 1.5-2 years now.

sounds like you have an attitude problem ( im not a manager ) and you rub bosses the wrong way and they want you out.

the best advice is what was given me years ago by an old timer. lawyer up. tell your supervisors up front that if they are going to discipline you they have to have a steward present. without one present you do not have to speak a word.

You read the whole OP right? I did request a steward.

An attitude problem.... When I feel harassed everyday I definitely have an attitude problem. When I see double-standards set on the preload amongst the hourlies, I definitely have an attitude problem. When my Weingarten Rights are deliberately violated, I definitely have an attitude problem. When I come in and do my best, have no misloads, no damages, stay clean the entire shift, and then the next day I'm handed an audit and dicked around by my boss's boss's boss, I'm DEFINITELY going to have an attitude problem.

So yeah, at the moment, I'll agree with you on that one.


But Hell, though, I thought that's how people worked. You keep shoveling their way and eventually they get irritated.

 

[10 point]

If the flavor if the month is Misloads tell the BA to have the company send the misload reports for the last four weeks to the local.
They tried to discipline select people for attendance infractions here and I told them we wanted everyone's att. report pulled for the last 9 months (knowing that there were worse records) and they quit playing games with that.

You can add to the evidence that you are being singled out.

Having management that sucks is depressing.
Hope your BA doesn't suck too.

 

[HBGPreloader]

It's not the most reliable source. However wikipedia notes...

"If this discussion could in any way lead to my being disciplined or terminated, or affect my personal working conditions, I respectfully request that my union representative, officer, or steward be present at this meeting. Until my representative arrives, I choose not to participate in this discussion."

I keep a card in my wallet that says something similar.

Now, the supervisors don't bother to ask me to sign anything. And, when a new supe or manager tries to do anything like that, I just laugh.

For the serious ones, I laugh even harder because it certainly makes their blood boil.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

And, when a new supe or manager tries to do anything like that, I just laugh. For the serious ones, I laugh even harder because it certainly makes their blood boil.

Your point had already been made---there was no need to escalate the issue.