Gov healthcare

[klein]

I actually had the time to watch the vid, too.
Penecillin was invented in Canada. So, he didn't start out well.

Co-ops, well, they would bring premiums down, but thats about it.
Maybe, a small chance of healthcare costs, too, if they have enough money to build thier own clinics and hospitals, and can get Doctors and Nurses to work for less.
Medical Equiptment, such as an MRI, however are very expensive.
Most of your clinics that have them, have them only on lease (adds to the total medical costs ofcourse).
Kinda like if you had to rent a car to go work every day, you'ld make less disposable income too .

Therefor, I can't see medical costs going down much. Either will drugs or perscription drugs.

Besides, co-ops would be local, I assume.
If one of those local places, hade an epedemic, or disaster. They could go belly up overnight, (unless ofcourse the government bails them out).

CNN Money pointed out again, yesterday. That insured americans don't need to shop around for medical treatment, but how much money is being thrown away by having that attitude.
As an example on CNN Money yesterday:
A routine checkup, (with blood, diabetes check, blood pressure, heartbeat, etc) costed at Walmart just over $100.
Walkin-Clinic was around $200.
Family Doc: $275.00 - $325.00
Emergency: $575.00

As long as Doctors can charge what they want, with high overhead costs. I can't see sky rocketing heathcare cost, not comming to an end.

 

[wkmac]

I actually had the time to watch the vid, too.
Penecillin was invented in Canada. So, he didn't start out well.

Could you provide a source or link to confirm such assertion? My reading sez that penicillin was first discovered by French physican Ernest Duchesne while studying at the Military Health Service School of Lyon in 1896'. The next major advance towards penicillin was the work of Alexander Fleming whose work as I can see at no time took place on the North American continent. The last major hurdle to modern pencillin took place in the 1940's as discussed in the video by the duo of Howard Walter Florey and Ernst Boris Chain who picked up Fleming's work to produce an actual clinical drug but again, this did not take place anywhere in North America although their work was heavily subsidized by the Rockerfeller Foundation of NY.

The speaker in the video in fact never made any such claim as to the location but you twisted his context in order to find fault as you disagreed with his over all POV.

As to co-ops being local, yes that's correct. As for co-ops owning clinics, hospitals, etc. yes, advocating that as well. Ever heard of St. Judes, Scottish Rite in Atlanta or many, many more hospitals either owned by private charitible/faternal organizations or did you ever hear the term "community hospital"? Gee, wonder who owns that? Damn, what a concept!

In 2003, of the roughly 3,900 nonfederal, short-term, acute care general hospitals in the United States, the majority—about 62 percent—were nonprofit. The rest included government hospitals (20 percent) and for-profit hospitals (18 percent).[1]

see Non-Profit Hospital

As for situations that could happen that overwhelm local conditions? Sure, happens all the time even in our modern centralized state. Remember the positively effective response to Katrina? But let's ignore the very fact that it was high risk to every build that city there to begin with and one of the main reasons people found themselves sadly in the horrible situation to begin with was that they trusted gov't claims of being able to keep the water out no matter what. It just seems unrealistic on our part to accept the fact that you can build a house on the side of an active volcano and by decree of the majority via gov't collective, the volcano gods will be held in check no matter what. Shall we throw common sense to the wind?

I contend that state intervention actually amplifies negative outcomes because it hides the realities of the nature of the true risks involved. You might read Number 5: The Problem of Security and even though the point concerns the idea of free market economics, the truths still apply elsewhere that when gov't intervenes it hides the true risk involved. Had the gov't been truthful with New Orleans all along about their inability in all situations to keep the water out, the after effects of Katrina might have been a lot less because people might not have been as comfortable living there knowing the risks involved.

At the same time gov't can also over explode risks as it may be doing with the threat of swine flu. Annually we have (sadly too) 36k deaths from flu complications. Most of these are a result of persons with depressed immune systems caused by one thing or another. Early swine projections was for 30k to 90k deaths and then the 90k number seemed to stick in the public space but even now the CDC itself is starting to back off that 90k number. Is swine flu headed towards a typical flu year after all?

I wonder if we will be told of the 1976' outbreak and the associated Guillain-Barré syndrome to the vaccine plan then or will that history and other potential risks be hidden on the grounds of the "greater good being served?"

For a gov't having run on the idea of transparency, it will be interesting to see how much they truly believe in the idea of a truly informed patient or citizenry for that fact. I'm not holding my breath as I don't look good in blue!

 

[klein]

Sorry WKmac, got penecillin mixed up with Insulin. Insulin is ours, I opoligize.

The problem is if a Co-op opens tomorrow. They won't have the funds to open up thier new hospital instantly, nor even a lot of medical clinics.
It will take time, until they can collect enough cash to do so.
Besides, more hospitals and clinics aren't probably needed at the momemt.
And, what would make a doctor work for less in a Co-op, if he could earn (say 50%) more in the private insurance sector ?
Plus building new facilities would just add to more cost of GDP going towards healthcare.
I just can't see it working, atleast not short-term. It will take decades for co-ops to operate fully side by side, and I doubt it will fix the ever growing number of americans being un- or underinsured.

It's your problem to figure out.You know Obama won't succeed, and you know it can't stay the way it is.

Just for the hell of it, here's a link to our inventions:

http://careerchem.com/NAMED/Canadian-Inventions.html

 

[av8torntn]

I actually had the time to watch the vid, too.

Are you sure?

 

[1989]

If we could only dig up J P Morgan and have him bail us out again.

 

[wkmac]

September 14, 2009

Even Canadians Are Waking Up . . .

Posted by Thomas DiLorenzo on September 14, 2009 01:04 PM
. . . to the systemic awfulness of socialized healthcare, writes Canadian Cathy LeBoeuf-Schouten. After publishing an article on LewRockwell.com entitled. “My Canadian Healthcare Horror Stories,” Cathy discovered that the article had elicited 27,000 hits from all over the Canadian blogosphere. The article produced “a cascade effect” of other Canadians sharing their socialized healthcare stories, she wrote me. She appeared on several state radio (CBC) shows where she “got across many points that I have seen raised on LewRockwell.com, by people such as Hans-Hermann Hoppe, Walter Block, Tom DiLorenzo et al,” and the CBC host even promoted her article from LewRockwell.com.
“The turmoil of the American debate on healthcare has percolated up to us,” she writes. “People are now sharing horror stories and realizing that the awfulness is systemic. My [American] friends, take this as proof that no matter what your government may say about Canadians’ general satisfaction with their socialized medicine, there is huge dissension and people are looking for alternatives.”
Who knows, Canadians may move in the direction of healthcare freedom while Americans embrace the totalitarian alternative.

My Canadian Healthcare Horror Stories

 

[klein]

My Canadian Healthcare Horror Stories

See, you found the odd one.
Try google American Healthcare Horror Stories.

Thats what I did... right on top is this one, and many, many more ;

Not long ago, a young Ohio woman named Trina Bachtel, who was having health problems while pregnant, tried to get help at a local clinic.

Unfortunately, she had previously sought care at the same clinic while uninsured and had a large unpaid balance. The clinic wouldn’t see her again unless she paid $100 per visit — which she didn’t have.
Eventually, she sought care at a hospital 30 miles away. By then, however, it was too late. Both she and the baby died.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/11/opinion/11krugman.html

 

[tieguy]

See, you found the odd one.
Try google American Healthcare Horror Stories.

Thats what I did... right on top is this one, and many, many more ;

Not long ago, a young Ohio woman named Trina Bachtel, who was having health problems while pregnant, tried to get help at a local clinic.

Unfortunately, she had previously sought care at the same clinic while uninsured and had a large unpaid balance. The clinic wouldn’t see her again unless she paid $100 per visit — which she didn’t have.
Eventually, she sought care at a hospital 30 miles away. By then, however, it was too late. Both she and the baby died.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/11/opinion/11krugman.html

she probably wasted a lot of time looking for canadian penicillian.

 

[klein]

she probably wasted a lot of time looking for canadian penicillian.

Tieguy, you are sick !
I would have gave her the $100 !

 

[tieguy]

See, you found the odd one.
Try google American Healthcare Horror Stories.

Thats what I did... right on top is this one, and many, many more ;

Not long ago, a young Ohio woman named Trina Bachtel, who was having health problems while pregnant, tried to get help at a local clinic.

Unfortunately, she had previously sought care at the same clinic while uninsured and had a large unpaid balance. The clinic wouldn’t see her again unless she paid $100 per visit — which she didn’t have.
Eventually, she sought care at a hospital 30 miles away. By then, however, it was too late. Both she and the baby died.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/11/opinion/11krugman.html

Ok you did not like my joke so let me post a serious answer. Paul Krugman posted a correction to this story because it was not accurate. Next time read the whole article before trying to condemn the US from canada.

Correction: April 15, 2008
In his column on Friday, Paul Krugman discussed an anecdote told by Hillary Clinton about a woman in Ohio who supposedly lost her newborn child, and then her life, because of bills run up when she did not have health insurance. Mr. Krugman relied on early news accounts of the incident, but later accounts, including one from The Columbus Dispatch, show that those bills did not lead to loss of care. Mr. Krugman has posted a detailed explanation on his blog at krugman.blogs.nytimes.com.

More Articles in Opinion »

 

[klein]

Doesn't take much to keep googling, how great your heathcare is :


My Health Care Horror Story

Lately, the debate over health care insurance reform has lost it's way in policy wonk and disagreements over the myths and lies from the media and some standard bearers of the Republican party. Lost in the lies is the basic truth about medical insurance reform and why we need it.

• Fifty people a day will die due to lack of insurance and early intervention.
• More than half of US bankruptcies are caused by medical problems, even amongst those who have insurance.
  
• A large portion of our countrymen do not have insurance and/or are under insured, and more are losing it each day as businesses eliminate full-time jobs with benefits for temp workers or part timers.

http://www.democracycellproject.com/dcpopen/archives/2009/08/my_health_care_horror_story.html

 

[tieguy]

Doesn't take much to keep googling, how great your heathcare is :


My Health Care Horror Story

Lately, the debate over health care insurance reform has lost it's way in policy wonk and disagreements over the myths and lies from the media and some standard bearers of the Republican party. Lost in the lies is the basic truth about medical insurance reform and why we need it.

• Fifty people a day will die due to lack of insurance and early intervention.
• More than half of US bankruptcies are caused by medical problems, even amongst those who have insurance.
• A large portion of our countrymen do not have insurance and/or are under insured, and more are losing it each day as businesses eliminate full-time jobs with benefits for temp workers or part timers.

http://www.democracycellproject.com/dcpopen/archives/2009/08/my_health_care_horror_story.html

Yea I know. soda or beer at work. Did canada invent penicillian or insulin, is this story accurate or will it be another fabrication.

america is safe as long as you're the idiot trying to badmouth it.

 

[wkmac]

Medicare Would Rather Buy $8000 Computer than $150 iPhone App

 

[Catatonic]

That's got to be rough!

 

[moreluck]

You got that picture at Oprah's place, huh??

 

[wkmac]

Actually, I wanted Abe Lincoln toilet paper but then again I could have used this.

 

[wkmac]

Might as well beat em' to the punch since I let the idea out!

And of course all the rage in democrat powder rooms!

And with Nancy Pelosi

With that look I'm not going to even ask what's she's using.


And with Barney Frank?

Didn't someone write a song titled Imagine?

 

[wkmac]

Say No to the Individual Health Insurance Mandate!

 

[klein]

This aint a commercial, it's todays news, about your US heathcare.



http://news.globaltv.com/video/index.html?releasePID=qkzLPFHCqcUkRYHc0CAUMJM9EPgcbHyg

 

[tieguy]

This aint a commercial, it's todays news, about your US heathcare.



http://news.globaltv.com/video/index.html?releasePID=qkzLPFHCqcUkRYHc0CAUMJM9EPgcbHyg

And here is some on your canadian health care system. I am wondering why you are googling issues with the american health care system when there seem to be so many problems with the canadian one?

As you read this keep in mind that if the americans had the same health system as canada that this woman would have gone blind.

http://bridgetdgms.wordpress.com/20...nderscores-big-flaws-of-canadian-health-care/