Gov healthcare

knightablaze

Active Member
Here is an article that is a lot more objective then any of the crap you have posted. The consensus about the canadian health care system seems to be its a great system if you want to be able to see a doctor. Its a terrible system if you actually require treatment from that doctor.

Dude, did you mean to shoot yourself in the foot?
To be sure, Canadians have their complaints about their health care system — about long waits for elective care, including appointments with specialists and selected surgical procedures; shortages of doctors and nurses, particularly in rural areas; and the growing costs of covering an aging population.
Rural care and aging populations are problems that every western country has to deal with. It's not a particular flaw of one healthcare system. And elective care? Seriously, you can wait for that nose job.
She [Shona Holmes] spoke of suffering from a brain tumor and declared she would "be dead" had she relied on her government...

In a report on its Web site, the Mayo Clinic said Holmes was suffering from a Rathke's cleft cyst near her pituitary gland. The Web sites of several reputable medical groups list the cyst as non-cancerous.

"We've heard talk in the U.S. that you may die here because of long wait times, you can't choose the doctors or the care you want and that the government makes your health decisions for you, but none of that is really true," said Dr. Michael M. Rachlis, a leading Canadian health policy analyst who has written three books about Canada's system.
Shona Holmes appears to be more of a conservative shill pushing right-wing agendas in a foreign country, as more details of her illness and care get vetted. Not to mention the fact that her surgery was a success.
"It is in fact a very poor health care system that regularly fails Canadians," Nadeem Esmail of the Fraser Institute, a conservative Canadian think tank, wrote in a newspaper opinion piece published this month.
The Fraser Institute is a thoroughly free-market entity. Any comments it would make on a controlled system would be biased in favor of its ideology. They bring up important points regarding lengthening wait times for specialists over the last decade, but fail to mention the Canadian Federal Government's efforts to reform the system.

In reading the article, I felt the consensus was that Canadian Healthcare is an excellent system burdened by the country's rural and aging populations and the substitution of political handwringing for active reform.
 

Babagounj

Strength through joy
WINNIPEG -- A shipment of body bags sent out to northern Manitoba by Health Canada have left chiefs less than impressed.

Expecting supplies for the H1N1 influenza outbreak, officials at nursing stations in Wasagamack, St. Theresa Point, and Garden Hill First Nations say they received an increased amount of body bags in their shipments.

Officials at the Wasagamack station said they received about 30 body bags while still waiting for its shipment of hand sanitizer wipes and masks.

Garden Hill Chief David Harper, who is also grand chief of Manitoba Keewatinowi Okimakanak -- which represents 30 communities in the north --wondered if Health Canada knew something about the H1N1 outbreak that First Nations communities didn't.

"Don't send us body bags, help us organize, send us medicine," he said in a statement.


 

scratch

Least Best Moderator
Staff member
WINNIPEG -- A shipment of body bags sent out to northern Manitoba by Health Canada have left chiefs less than impressed.
...........................
"Don't send us body bags, help us organize, send us medicine," he said in a statement.


Maybe the body bags were cheaper than paying for doctors to administer the vaccine.:dissapointed:
 

tieguy

Banned
Dude, did you mean to shoot yourself in the foot?
To be sure, Canadians have their complaints about their health care system — about long waits for elective care, including appointments with specialists and selected surgical procedures; shortages of doctors and nurses, particularly in rural areas; and the growing costs of covering an aging population.
Rural care and aging populations are problems that every western country has to deal with. It's not a particular flaw of one healthcare system. And elective care? Seriously, you can wait for that nose job.
She [Shona Holmes] spoke of suffering from a brain tumor and declared she would "be dead" had she relied on her government...
In a report on its Web site, the Mayo Clinic said Holmes was suffering from a Rathke's cleft cyst near her pituitary gland. The Web sites of several reputable medical groups list the cyst as non-cancerous.

"We've heard talk in the U.S. that you may die here because of long wait times, you can't choose the doctors or the care you want and that the government makes your health decisions for you, but none of that is really true," said Dr. Michael M. Rachlis, a leading Canadian health policy analyst who has written three books about Canada's system.
Shona Holmes appears to be more of a conservative shill pushing right-wing agendas in a foreign country, as more details of her illness and care get vetted. Not to mention the fact that her surgery was a success.
"It is in fact a very poor health care system that regularly fails Canadians," Nadeem Esmail of the Fraser Institute, a conservative Canadian think tank, wrote in a newspaper opinion piece published this month.
The Fraser Institute is a thoroughly free-market entity. Any comments it would make on a controlled system would be biased in favor of its ideology. They bring up important points regarding lengthening wait times for specialists over the last decade, but fail to mention the Canadian Federal Government's efforts to reform the system.

In reading the article, I felt the consensus was that Canadian Healthcare is an excellent system burdened by the country's rural and aging populations and the substitution of political handwringing for active reform.

Dude if you meant to isolate one post then yes I did. If you took the material from the four different posts and put it all together then you have a great health care system for seeing a doctor and a poor one for getting treated by one.
 

knightablaze

Active Member
Dude if you meant to isolate one post then yes I did. If you took the material from the four different posts and put it all together then you have a great health care system for seeing a doctor and a poor one for getting treated by one.

If you had read and watched your four source materials I feel you would have come to a different conclusion.

The Shona Holmes news story has already been shown to be something of a Republican shill. Her disease was not cancerous and was treated successfully in a timely manner. Hardly poor health treatment.

Swine flu or H1N1 is a virus that's caught every government off guard. Vaccines are in production and probably won't be ready for a full deployment this winter. It's, again, not a problem affecting just the Canadian healthcare system. Plus, I feel testing a vaccine for efficacy and safety before administering it to the entire population is smarter policy than the USA's fast-track strategy.

The Star Tribune's article I already vetted...moving on...

The Real News Network - producer of


has only been around two years and seems to be on track to be a real news force in the future. Their transparency is laudable, but they're also questionably optimistic [$3 million "cumulative" profit beyond net income by 2012] and I don't entirely trust their reports.

However, their video seems to suggest that Canadian healthcare is flawed in only a couple of areas. Their interviewee suggests that Canadian healthcare could be improved through greater attention to a patient's needs and further reform to allow private clinics greater freedom of business. She is expressly against privatization and even helps point out that Canadian opponents [shills?] of American reform are often misrepresenting Canadian healthcare.

All four of your sources point to a Canadian system that takes care of its patients but must also reform to tackle growing challenges before they spiral out of hand. Overall it seems to be a stable system that USA could learn from and possibly strive for. Is that enough bullets in your foot, or should we reload?
 

Babagounj

Strength through joy
The state of Massachusetts has a law in place requiring all citizens to have health coverage; those that don't have to pay a yearly fine. The "promise" from the state government was that the public funded option would reduce costs over time, typically a family unit would pay about $665 / yr for coverage (2006 ). Three years later that same family unit's cost has risen to over $1000.
Do you really think that the federal government's plan to do the same is really going to bring all the costs down ?
 

klein

Für Meno :)
Swine flu or H1N1 is a virus that's caught every government off guard. Vaccines are in production and probably won't be ready for a full deployment this winter. It's, again, not a problem affecting just the Canadian healthcare system. Plus, I feel testing a vaccine for efficacy and safety before administering it to the entire population is smarter policy than the USA's fast-track strategy.

She is expressly against privatization and even helps point out that Canadian opponents [shills?] of American reform are often misrepresenting Canadian healthcare.

All four of your sources point to a Canadian system that takes care of its patients but must also reform to tackle growing challenges before they spiral out of hand. Overall it seems to be a stable system that USA could learn from and possibly strive for. Is that enough bullets in your foot, or should we reload?

Plus ,you have forgotten, Canadians will receive a newer version of a vaccine, that only requires 1 shot.
Americans will need 2 (a follow up shot after a few weeks).
Probably another $2oo or more wasted form each person, that will be vaccinated. (cost of vaccine, plus cost to admister it).
Doesn't seem like much, but times 200 Million it is.

US system is not obstainable,but let them keep it, until companies and government can no longer afford it, and it all falls apart.
I think thats what they want.

They already need to pay every manufacter worker about $800 extra per month for healtcare bennies, plus thier rich pensions, and are seeing those jobs disappearing.
Hopefully, more of them will land north in the future.
 

klein

Für Meno :)
The state of Massachusetts has a law in place requiring all citizens to have health coverage; those that don't have to pay a yearly fine. The "promise" from the state government was that the public funded option would reduce costs over time, typically a family unit would pay about $665 / yr for coverage (2006 ). Three years later that same family unit's cost has risen to over $1000.
Do you really think that the federal government's plan to do the same is really going to bring all the costs down ?

You can't compare that.
Because medical rates are governerd here.
(A doctor gets paid $35 per patient that he sees, extra for any treatment).
Treatments are also listed in a bluebook, for what they can charge.
Every procedure has a set price.

For example, a broken leg costs here say $2500 to treat. In the US $5000.
When Canadians travel south, we are covered by our healthcare, but only for the costs of what it would cost here.
Means, if I break a leg in the US, I would need to pay the difference of $5000 - $2500 = $2500 out of my pocket.
Thats why we need extra medical travel insurance when we travel south.

The US system has already balloned in costs, atleast twice as high as any other country in the world (Canada at second spot, 50% cheaper then USA). Europe is in average of 40% cost of that of the USA.
And EVERYONE is insured.
If you don't see a flaw, like I said , keep it. Until the system falls apart on it's on.
 

klein

Für Meno :)
Mulroney wades where Harper won't - in support of Obama in U.S. health debate



Thu Sep 17, 10:29 PM




By Tobi Cohen And Jennifer Ditchburn, The Canadian Press

MONTREAL - A Conservative prime minister has launched a stirring defence of universal health care, and lauded Barack Obama in his bare-knuckle political battle to extend benefits to all Americans.

But it's not the current Conservative prime minister. Brian Mulroney used a speech to 1,500 Conservative supporters to wade where Prime Minister Stephen Harper has steadfastly refused to venture: the bitter U.S. debate over health reform.

The former prime minister drew parallels between Obama's uphill fight to reform health care to his own struggles as prime minister, which may have cost him popularity but benefited the country.

"Political capital is acquired to be spent in great causes for one's nation," Mulroney said Thursday.

"Prime ministers are not chosen to seek popularity.... They are chosen to provide leadership. . . President Obama is fighting for a form of universal health care and is encountering ferocious resistance.

"The attacks on President Obama are often bitter and mean-spirited and his approval ratings, his popularity, are sinking like a stone. Still, he fights on. . .

"Fifty years from today, Americans will revere the name, 'Obama.' Because like his Canadian predecessors, he chose the tough responsibilities of national political leadership over the meaningless nostrums of sterile partisanship that we see too much of in Canada and around the world today."

The vast, crowded hotel ballroom went silent at that part of Mulroney's speech. One woman was seen snickering.

It didn't take long for tongues to start wagging that Mulroney's speech - which, in 40 minutes, mentioned old Liberal and NDP opponents but never once uttered the name 'Harper' - was a craftily designed swipe at the prime minister.

Mulroney's eagerness to take sides in the U.S. health debate was a stark and obvious contrast from Harper's reluctance to touch that political powder keg.

Half of Harper's cabinet was there watching the speech, while the prime minister himself was in the U.S. following a meeting with Obama.

At the height of the health debate this summer, while American town-hall meetings were occasionally erupting in fisticuffs, Harper and Obama met at a Three Amigos summit in Mexico.

During a news conference in front of media from three countries, as he stood next to Obama, Harper was asked about the U.S. battle and whether there was anything worth emulating about Canadian medicare, like its universal coverage.

Harper replied that it was a foreign debate and, besides, health care was the provinces' business - not the federal government's.

Harper's Liberal opponents blasted him for passing up what might have been an opportunity to help a powerful ally.
 

tieguy

Banned
Mulroney wades where Harper won't - in support of Obama in U.S. health debate



Thu Sep 17, 10:29 PM




By Tobi Cohen And Jennifer Ditchburn, The Canadian Press

MONTREAL - A Conservative prime minister has launched a stirring defence of universal health care, and lauded Barack Obama in his bare-knuckle political battle to extend benefits to all Americans.

But it's not the current Conservative prime minister. Brian Mulroney used a speech to 1,500 Conservative supporters to wade where Prime Minister Stephen Harper has steadfastly refused to venture: the bitter U.S. debate over health reform.

The former prime minister drew parallels between Obama's uphill fight to reform health care to his own struggles as prime minister, which may have cost him popularity but benefited the country.

"Political capital is acquired to be spent in great causes for one's nation," Mulroney said Thursday.

"Prime ministers are not chosen to seek popularity.... They are chosen to provide leadership. . . President Obama is fighting for a form of universal health care and is encountering ferocious resistance.

"The attacks on President Obama are often bitter and mean-spirited and his approval ratings, his popularity, are sinking like a stone. Still, he fights on. . .

"Fifty years from today, Americans will revere the name, 'Obama.' Because like his Canadian predecessors, he chose the tough responsibilities of national political leadership over the meaningless nostrums of sterile partisanship that we see too much of in Canada and around the world today."

The vast, crowded hotel ballroom went silent at that part of Mulroney's speech. One woman was seen snickering.

It didn't take long for tongues to start wagging that Mulroney's speech - which, in 40 minutes, mentioned old Liberal and NDP opponents but never once uttered the name 'Harper' - was a craftily designed swipe at the prime minister.

Mulroney's eagerness to take sides in the U.S. health debate was a stark and obvious contrast from Harper's reluctance to touch that political powder keg.

Half of Harper's cabinet was there watching the speech, while the prime minister himself was in the U.S. following a meeting with Obama.

At the height of the health debate this summer, while American town-hall meetings were occasionally erupting in fisticuffs, Harper and Obama met at a Three Amigos summit in Mexico.

During a news conference in front of media from three countries, as he stood next to Obama, Harper was asked about the U.S. battle and whether there was anything worth emulating about Canadian medicare, like its universal coverage.

Harper replied that it was a foreign debate and, besides, health care was the provinces' business - not the federal government's.

Harper's Liberal opponents blasted him for passing up what might have been an opportunity to help a powerful ally.

OH Klienschen . It appears you're dodging my question. I've shown you that you have a system with major problems. why aren't you lobbying to fix canadas health care problems? Why instead are you working so hard to fix an american system that does not affect you?
 

klein

Für Meno :)
OH Klienschen . It appears you're dodging my question. I've shown you that you have a system with major problems. why aren't you lobbying to fix canadas health care problems? Why instead are you working so hard to fix an american system that does not affect you?

I don`t feel the need for fixing anything here right now.
I even did a family doctor search on the Capital Health Region site.
Within 5km of my house, there are 3 physicians accepting new clients.
I didn`t bother doing a 10 or 15 or 20k search.
I can`t say I have a doctor shortage.

And, to keep costs down, I don`t believe a MRI or other high medical equiptment should be immediatly available, for heathy people, just wanted one done today ! They can wait.
 

tieguy

Banned
I don`t feel the need for fixing anything here right now.
I even did a family doctor search on the Capital Health Region site.
Within 5km of my house, there are 3 physicians accepting new clients.
I didn`t bother doing a 10 or 15 or 20k search.
I can`t say I have a doctor shortage.

And, to keep costs down, I don`t believe a MRI or other high medical equiptment should be immediatly available, for heathy people, just wanted one done today ! They can wait.

Yes , yes you are the good socialist. Loyal to your governments logic while your citizens come to america to recieve their life saving surgeries denied them by a government program that believes it knows whats good for the citizens.

Now Klienschen why is you google the flaws of the american sytem. why don't you google and address your own problems?
 

klein

Für Meno :)
Yes , yes you are the good socialist. Loyal to your governments logic while your citizens come to america to recieve their life saving surgeries denied them by a government program that believes it knows whats good for the citizens.

Now Klienschen why is you google the flaws of the american sytem. why don't you google and address your own problems?

I actually didn`t google that last report about our Primeminister and former PM.
Just happened to make our news today.
Maybe, some will like the insight of that news article .....
 

tieguy

Banned
I actually didn`t google that last report about our Primeminister and former PM.
Just happened to make our news today.
Maybe, some will like the insight of that news article .....

now now klienschen you're being evasive. You freely admitted googling american flaws before.

why? It does not affect you?

why not google canadian flaws and fix them instead? What is your purpose here? Are you being paid to post your misinformation here?
 

1989

Well-Known Member
Five weeks ago my son had leukemia. It took him 3 days to see a doctor. Finally got in on a Friday afternoon. He got some blood tests done and was told he had a low blood cell count so they kept him overnight. That saturday his count was even lower.

Doctors came in many times, day and night. They narrowed it down to an autoimmune disease or leukemia. But would have to wait for a specialist on Monday. Sunday morning came and they had pints of blood set aside incase they had to do a blood transfusion. Sunday afternoon they eliminated the chance of an autoimmune disease and was focused on leukemia. But to be sure they would have to take bone marrow tonight or tomorrow morning.

Monday morning comes, the specialist orders the bone marrow test. By midday his cell count has doubled. They are torn weather to take marrow or not. Finally my son decides that they should wait. Tuesday morning his count is up even more and that afternoon he was released. My son thinks that the doctors just wanted to see some bone marrow.

Now his wife had to wait 2 weeks to get a prenatal appointment just to get a referrel to see an OBGYN in a couple weeks. How would government healthcare be different than what our military has?
 

wkmac

Well-Known Member

When it comes to the healthcare debate and republicans and democrats, I don't consider either side all that reliable. Both want some form that falls into a socialize system of one size or another.

Saying that "I'm not surprised" just means that I'm not surprised nor would I be to learn after all said and done and only say 5% hang it up. The fact is my own doctor who is approaching 60 and his partner a couple of years older are watching things closely and they've both said depending on the outcome they may hang it up. What would they be thinking if they were say 35?

They both admit the current system is unsustainable but like myself, they see the plans in Washington in reality befitting the drug companies and large insurance and mega health companies. They see themselves being forced into a mega cartel where a corp. board will tell them how to practice medicine. Now that is a far cry from fear of a single payer health plan which they already take part in with treating medicare patients. They can't even negociate prices because medicare regs. place a price floor for services and they can't go below that and not violate the contract. Don't treat medicare patinets? Sure, they could do that but then they have patients who've been with them for decades and because a gov't reg. now forces them into a new system, the doctor/patient relationship should be ended?

In your zeal to get rid of the Bush corp. types, (agreed they $ucked)you've just elected the same thing but hidden under the false mask of change and transparency.

I've said this earlier in another thread and I'll repeat again. If they passed a single payer plan I think you see a lot of people going for the door at UPS. First, small business owners working pt. time for the insurance benefits and they are more in number than some might realize and then guys like myself who have a good number of years that would pay retirement now but who only are waiting on that magic age to get insurance. Take that out of the picture and I'll bet as I head for the exits, I wouldn't be alone.

What I find interesting is comparing healthcare and education (both with a large physical gov't presense) to the world of computers and electronics. As time goes by, computers and electronics advance in leaps and yet the prices go down but in medicine and education, you get advances but prices continue to go up.

Hmmmmmm?
 

Jones

fILE A GRIEVE!
Staff member
Five weeks ago my son had leukemia. It took him 3 days to see a doctor. Finally got in on a Friday afternoon. He got some blood tests done and was told he had a low blood cell count so they kept him overnight. That saturday his count was even lower.

Doctors came in many times, day and night. They narrowed it down to an autoimmune disease or leukemia. But would have to wait for a specialist on Monday. Sunday morning came and they had pints of blood set aside incase they had to do a blood transfusion. Sunday afternoon they eliminated the chance of an autoimmune disease and was focused on leukemia. But to be sure they would have to take bone marrow tonight or tomorrow morning.

Monday morning comes, the specialist orders the bone marrow test. By midday his cell count has doubled. They are torn weather to take marrow or not. Finally my son decides that they should wait. Tuesday morning his count is up even more and that afternoon he was released. My son thinks that the doctors just wanted to see some bone marrow.

Now his wife had to wait 2 weeks to get a prenatal appointment just to get a referrel to see an OBGYN in a couple weeks. How would government healthcare be different than what our military has?
That's a good question, but I'm not sure it's relevant. Government healthcare isn't even being discussed in congress. Just to be clear, the "public option" is not military style government healthcare, it just means the government would pay the bill. Government "billpay" is probably a more accurate description. All the actual healthcare would still be performed by the same doctors and hospitals that are doing it now. That is unless Brett's whackadoo nightmare scenario comes to fruition and they all quit to go work at McDonalds.
If you're curious, here's a fairly comprehensive look at where all the legislation currently stands:
For anyone who has lost track of where we are on the health-care bill, here is a brief summary. Three different House committees have reported out health-care bills. All three contain mechanisms for setting up a public plan, but it would be limited to various groups of people, and would not kick in immediately. All the bills contain a mandate for individuals to buy health insurance or pay a fine and all three provide for government subsidies for poor people who can't afford insurance. The bills differ on many details and the three chairmen, George Miller (D-CA), Charlie Rangel (D-NY), and Henry Waxman (D-CA), are currently working with the White House and Nancy Pelosi to come to one bill which would be brought to the floor of the House for possible amendments and a vote. The Progressive Caucus says it will not support a bill without a public option and the Blue Dog Caucus says it will not support a bill with a public option. Both caucuses are large enough to defeat the bill. Horse trading and sausage making are going to be on display shortly.
Over in the Senate, the HELP committee, formerly chaired by the late Sen. Ted Kennedy (D-MA) and currently chaired by Sen. Tom Harkin (D-IA), has already reported out a bill that includes a public option. The Senate Finance Committee, chaired by Sen. Max Baucus (D-MT), has produced a 223-page bill but not passed it yet. It has something for everyone. Liberals like the fact that it increases the Medicaid limit up to 133% of the poverty line and allows small businesses with up to 50 workers to join "exchanges" on which private insurance companies would offer competitive plans to gain new customers. Furthermore, the 50-worker limit would increase over time, allowing bigger companies to join in.
Conservatives like the fact that there is no government-run public option but does have individual mandates, forcing everyone in the country to buy private insurance, a huge windfall for the insurance industry. They also like the absence of any mandate on companies to provide insurance for their workers, although companies will have to pay a fine for any workers getting government assistance to pay for health care. This provision might deter companies from hiring poor people.
A major source of revenue in the Baucus bill is a 35% excise tax on gold-plated insurance plans. Baucus and every health economist in the country thinks this is a great idea (because gold-plated plans encourage frivolous use of scarce health-care resources), but everyone else opposes this provision. However, scotching it leaves a huge gap in the financing that must be filled.
Next week the Baucus bill will be marked up, meaning that all 23 members of the committee get to propose amendments which are then voted up or down. Here is a list of the committee's members. With the potential exception of Sen. Olympia Snowe (R-ME), all 10 Republicans on the committee basically don't want any bill and will try to weaken or scuttle it. The 13 Democrats want a bill, but they are scattered all over the ideological spectrum, from Sen. Chuck Schumer (D-NY) on the left to Sen. Blanche Lincoln (D-AR) on the right. Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D-WV) has already said he will vote no on the Baucus bill as it is currently written. He gave Ezra Klein a good interview about heath care as well. Sen. Maria Cantwell (D-WA) has joined Rockefeller and said she will also vote no unless a public option is added. Without Rockefeller and Cantwell, Baucus doesn't have enough votes unless he can get Snowe to vote yes. But according to Rockefeller, the Republican leadership is bringing down the hammer on Snowe to vote no. But she is from a blue state and not up for reelection until 2012, so they have limited ability to pressure her. Also, Schumer is generally to the left of Rockefeller and Cantwell and if they don't like the bill, he probably likes it even less.
It is hard to guess what will come out of mark-up next week. A total of 543 amendments were submitted before yesterday's deadline. Rockefeller submitted one to create a government-run plan. Sen. Ron Wyden (D-OR) wants employers to offer a choice of at least two plans. Other amendments deal with the numerology: how poor do you have to be to get a subsidy, how much should Medicare pay doctors, and so on. Chances are a bill will emerge because everyone knows this is not the final step. Once the bill clears the committee, it has to be merged with the HELP bill, which means that Baucus and Harkin will have to duke it out, with majority leader Harry Reid and the White House watching very closely. Then the merged bill will go for a vote to the full Senate.
By then, Massachusetts will probably have a second senator, so the Democrats will have 60 votes and could invoke cloture to shut off debate if they all stick together. It is possible that Snowe will play an outsized role here. If she votes for the final bill, this may give cover to conservative Democrats like Sen. Ben Nelson (D-NE) and Sen. Mary Landrieu (D-LA) to vote for it, so it may pass using normal procedures. Needless to say, this situation gives Snowe enormous leverage to have the bill shaped the way she wants it, which is sure to displease Senate liberals.
If Snowe does not like the final bill and votes no, some conservative Democrats may join her in voting no. Then the Democrats would have to use the budget reconciliation procedure to get the bill through. This requires only 50 votes plus the Vice President, but the Senate parliamentarian, Alan Frumin, could rule that the bill does not qualify for reconciliation. However, the Senate could overrule him and even fire him, replacing him with a more accomodating parliamentarian. This is precisely what happened with the Bush tax cut bill of 2001. Then-parliamentarian Robert Dove ruled against the Republicans so majority leader Trent Lott fired him and installed Frumin.
A wild card in all this is the health of Sen. Robert Byrd (D-WV), who might not be able to make it to the Senate to vote. If he felt his absence was dooming health care, though, he could resign and let Gov. Joe Manchin (D-WV) appoint a new Democrat in his place. Byrd is not the resigning type, however. If he is technically alive, he'll probably vote.
Once the Senate has passed a bill, the real fun starts. The House and Senate bills will have to be merged into a single bill that can pass both chambers. A key issue here is who gets appointed to the conference committee. The Democrats will have the majority, but a committee featuring Baucus and Waxman could become a real food fight, as they are miles apart ideologically. If and when a report emerges from the conference, it goes back to both chambers for approval. Conference reports are subject to filibuster in the Senate unless there are 60 votes for cloture or the bill is part of the budget reconciliation process. At that point pressure will be immense on everyone and there is no telling what might happen.
I predict a boondoggle of epic proportions....
source
 
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