Gov healthcare

klein

Für Meno :)
Five weeks ago my son had leukemia. It took him 3 days to see a doctor. Finally got in on a Friday afternoon. He got some blood tests done and was told he had a low blood cell count so they kept him overnight. That saturday his count was even lower.

Doctors came in many times, day and night. They narrowed it down to an autoimmune disease or leukemia. But would have to wait for a specialist on Monday. Sunday morning came and they had pints of blood set aside incase they had to do a blood transfusion. Sunday afternoon they eliminated the chance of an autoimmune disease and was focused on leukemia. But to be sure they would have to take bone marrow tonight or tomorrow morning.

Monday morning comes, the specialist orders the bone marrow test. By midday his cell count has doubled. They are torn weather to take marrow or not. Finally my son decides that they should wait. Tuesday morning his count is up even more and that afternoon he was released. My son thinks that the doctors just wanted to see some bone marrow.

Now his wife had to wait 2 weeks to get a prenatal appointment just to get a referrel to see an OBGYN in a couple weeks. How would government healthcare be different than what our military has?

You don`t wait 3 days to see a doctor here. You call them, arrange an appointment for that same day, because it`s urgent.
If your family doc, doesn`t have the time, you can go to any another one.
You can check yourself even into a hospital if you feel really ill.

Anyways, once the bloodtest results are in (like mine were with diabetes), I was called, a few hrs later, and told to check myself into a hospital.
With leukemia scare, I think he would have been sent to the state of the art Cancer Clinic we have here. Specialist are there 24-7.

Prenatal appointments and care are normally done with your regular physician. He or She will set up all the neccesary appointments in advance, and if an urgency happens inbetween, go to any clinic, or hospital.
 

Number 2

Member
In the UPS/Teamsters contract there is a provision that if National Health Care ever passes, that the union and the company will meet afterwards and negotiate what it means for us. That should be interesting. I'm sure the company would LOVE to quit contributing to Central States and I'm sure the union would LOVE to quit worrying about Central States' financial condition. My opinion: they would spin us off to the public (government) option very quickly.
 

Jones

fILE A GRIEVE!
Staff member
In the UPS/Teamsters contract there is a provision that if National Health Care ever passes, that the union and the company will meet afterwards and negotiate what it means for us. That should be interesting. I'm sure the company would LOVE to quit contributing to Central States and I'm sure the union would LOVE to quit worrying about Central States' financial condition. My opinion: they would spin us off to the public (government) option very quickly.
What article is that under in the NMA? I don't see how the scenario you're envisioning would be possible under any of the healthcare bills currently being discussed.
Edit-Found it article 34, section H
 

klein

Für Meno :)
In the UPS/Teamsters contract there is a provision that if National Health Care ever passes, that the union and the company will meet afterwards and negotiate what it means for us. That should be interesting. I'm sure the company would LOVE to quit contributing to Central States and I'm sure the union would LOVE to quit worrying about Central States' financial condition. My opinion: they would spin us off to the public (government) option very quickly.

Besides, that , you won`t see a National Healthcare in America anytime soon, anyways.
Not, until the current system goes belly up, and it needs a government takeover.
Maybe in 10 - 20 years.

But, this new reform will set a stage for the future.
 

tieguy

Banned
You don`t wait 3 days to see a doctor here. You call them, arrange an appointment for that same day, because it`s urgent.
If your family doc, doesn`t have the time, you can go to any another one.
You can check yourself even into a hospital if you feel really ill.

Anyways, once the bloodtest results are in (like mine were with diabetes), I was called, a few hrs later, and told to check myself into a hospital.
With leukemia scare, I think he would have been sent to the state of the art Cancer Clinic we have here. Specialist are there 24-7.

Prenatal appointments and care are normally done with your regular physician. He or She will set up all the neccesary appointments in advance, and if an urgency happens inbetween, go to any clinic, or hospital.

and again if everything is as you say with your health care system then why are canadians needing life saving surgery coming to the US to get it?
 

tieguy

Banned
In the UPS/Teamsters contract there is a provision that if National Health Care ever passes, that the union and the company will meet afterwards and negotiate what it means for us. That should be interesting. I'm sure the company would LOVE to quit contributing to Central States and I'm sure the union would LOVE to quit worrying about Central States' financial condition. My opinion: they would spin us off to the public (government) option very quickly.

If it passes you won't be alone. there will be a lot of plans looking to dump theirs.

Another issue that I would think would come up would be cherry picking. I would think health plans would like to market theirselves to the younger low risk , low expense customer and dump the older costlier patrons on the government plan. Kind of like medicare only at an earlier age.
 

klein

Für Meno :)
and again if everything is as you say with your health care system then why are canadians needing life saving surgery coming to the US to get it?

Where did you read that , one of those darn stupid rightwing commercials...

Yes, we bitch about our system now and then.Just like UPS employees bitch about UPS on here. Thats normal.
But, we wouldn`t trade it, for anything else in this world.

Overall healthcare is better here then in the USA, by far.
Because, everyone has access to it, with state of the Art facilities.
With higher successrates in many cases.
 

tieguy

Banned
Where did you read that , one of those darn stupid rightwing commercials...


I think that says it all !


We have quite a few posts posted here about canadians needing live saving surgery being told they had to wait in canada. You yourself commented on one of those stories telling us how wonderful it was that the canadian system paid for one of those people to go to the US and get that surgery they could not get in canada.

Are there two kliens posting here?
 

klein

Für Meno :)
We have quite a few posts posted here about canadians needing live saving surgery being told they had to wait in canada. You yourself commented on one of those stories telling us how wonderful it was that the canadian system paid for one of those people to go to the US and get that surgery they could not get in canada.

Are there two kliens posting here?

A few of them. When the Vancouver Hospitals were full, some were sent to nearby (50 miles) to Seattle. All paid for.

And I recall a pregnacy with 8-lits... 1 American hospital just done that procedure succesfully a few months prior.
Canadian Doctors didn`t want to take a chance, and sent her to the very same hospital, including cdn specialists.
Was also all paid for.

We learn from eachother.
Americans come here too, for procedures.
It works bothways.
 

tieguy

Banned
you need to read some of the negatives too.

Canada

Beverly Green

Beverly Green, 45, was diagnosed with breast cancer in 2001. Initial tests indicated she would not benefit from hormonal drug treatment, but retesting at Mount Sinai Hospital in 2005 found that her initial test results were incorrect. Green testified at a public inquiry in March 2008.
  • “Angry patients testify at breast cancer test inquiry” CTV.ca News (March 19, 2008)
Branislav Djukic
Branislav Djukic, an Ontario cab driver, faced a difficult choice: Wait more than 14 weeks for cancer surgery, or travel outside of Canada and purchase the lifesaving operation. Ultimately, Djukic returned to the country he fled in 1995, the former Yugoslavia. In Belgrade, he underwent surgery to remove a portion of his left kidney at a cost of $5,000.
  • “Long wait forces cancer patient to buy operation in land he fled; Patient’s choice: Wait 14 weeks or pay $5,000,” The Globe and Mail, By Lisa Priest (January 31, 2007) (Subscription Required)
  • “Londoner Travels to Yugoslavia For Cancer Treatment,” A-Channel News
David Malleau
David Malleau, a 44 year-old truck driver suffered a devastating car accident in 2004 that forced doctors at Hamilton General Hospital to remove a fist-sized piece of bone from his skull to relieve pressure on his brain. Once the swelling subsided and he was ready for surgery in March 2005, Malleau was sent home and placed on a waiting list. Three months passed. Then six. He waited at home, a prisoner unable to leave the house for fear something would hit the exposed side of his brain - for him a potentially fatal incident. In the end, it took nearly a year before he could get skull replacement surgery.
  • “You can’t fight the hospital; Man forced to wait a year for skull surgery had no official advocate,” The Toronto Star, By Tanya Talaga and Robert Cribb (May 22, 2007)
Diane Nesenbrink
Diane Nesenbrink, was goofing around as a teen when her jaw locked open. That incident, 27 years ago, marked the beginning of the Stratford, Ontario, woman’s lifelong ordeal with jaw joint problems. Ms. Nesenbrink jaw joint needed to be surgically replaced. But patients who need a new hip or knee have been deemed a political priority and are guaranteed joint replacements within nine months – the “medically acceptable” wait for consultation is no more than three months and the subsequent wait for surgery no more than six months. Ms. Nesenbrink’s doctor, Dr. Baker said, “The jaw joint is an important joint as well, but we’ve been forgotten.” In fact, his patients wait an average of more than two years for surgery. Even critical cases – where patients suffer excruciating pain and are unable to move their mouths – wait at least three months. “We see patients who are in dire straits: Talking, eating, chewing, smiling are all difficult, if not impossible,” Dr. Baker said.
  • “A jaw-dropping wait time for surgery; While people who need new hips or knees get action within nine months, jaw joint patients can wait more than two years,” The Globe and Mail, By Andre Picard, (May 22, 2007)
Jeff Clarke
Jeff Clarke, 34, was in a chronic state of pain for three years. The Kitchener man could stand for only 10 minutes at a time, sit for about 20 and then lie down again. The back pain, diagnosed as degenerative disc disease, travelled through his legs and often he buckled over as he tried to stand. He used two canes and a walker to get around. Then one night last November as he was watching TV, he saw a commercial about a Canadian company offering surgery in India. Clarke called the Vancouver-based business and within two days was sending his folder of medical information to the surgeon in Chennai, India. “All of a sudden there was hope, valid hope I could grasp,” he said. On Jan. 28, Clark had two titanium rods placed in his lower back, two reconstructed discs made of high-density plastic inserted, as well as screws to hold the discs together, all thanks to an Indian doctor.
  • “Kitchener man walks again after back surgery in India; ‘Still in a state of shock,’” The Kitchener-Waterloo Record, By Liz Monteiro (April 19, 2007) (Subscription Required)
Jordan Johanson
Jordan Johanson, 18, died at Rockyview Hospital in late March. He died following a 12-hour wait for surgery on his appendix. Darcy Johanson, the boy’s father, said “Young kids shouldn’t be dying like this. If something can be done to fix it, they should get on with it.”
  • “Families upset city health-care inquiry delayed; Five appendicitis deaths in 10 years at city hospitals,” The Calgary Herald, By Sean Myers (May 2, 2007) (Subscription Required)
  • “Teen dies after appendix ruptures,” The Edmonton Sun, By Bill Kaufman (April 19, 2007)
Lindsay McCreith
Lindsay McCreith, 66, was told he had a brain tumor but that he would have to wait four and a half months to obtain an MRI to rule out the possibility that it was cancerous. Unwilling to risk the progression of what might be cancer, Mr. McCreith obtained an MRI in Buffalo, which revealed the tumor was malignant. Even with this diagnosis in hand, the Ontario system still refused to provide timely treatment, so Mr. McCreith had surgery in Buffalo to remove the cancerous brain tumor in March, 2006. In Ontario, Mr. McCreith would have waited eight months for surgery, according to his family doctor. Eight months is enough time for a cancer to worsen, spread and progress to an irreversible stage. Had Mr. McCreith not paid $26,600 for immediate care, he might be dead today.
  • “Ontario man featured in U.S. health-care debate,” The Toronto Star, By Tim Harper (February 22, 2008)
  • “Taking Ontario’s health monopoly to court,” The National Post, By John Carpay (May 3, 2007)
  • “Patients suing province over wait times,” The Toronto Star, By Tanya Talaga (September 6, 2007)
Manon Lemoignan
Manon Lemoignan, 46, a cancer patient and the mother of two girls, was denied access to a life-prolonging drug. Lemoignan’s oncologist at the Royal Victoria Hospital recommended the best therapy available, Avastin. The drug, however, had not yet been approved for use in Canada.
  • “Cancer drug has OK - it just isn’t available,” The Montreal Gazette, By Charlie Fidelman (March 27, 2006)
 

tieguy

Banned
Part two:

are you paying attention?

Rally Levy

Rally Levy, a breast cancer patient in Montreal, was denied eligibility for the drug Herceptin. Where she lives, the drug is only available to women with advanced breast cancer that has spread to other parts of the body. “If I started my chemo a month ago, I would have been on the trial group that was eligible,” said Rally Levy. “They have realized it is a good pill. Why can’t I get it?”
  • “Speed up cancer drug availability, critics urge,” CBC News (June 21, 2005)
Sheila Nunn

Sheila Nunn, a Kitchener woman suffering seizures, was told by her doctor that she urgently needed an MRI scan. She was also told she would have to wait three months to have it done locally. Nunn, who had been suffering blackouts, memory loss, confusion and seizures for two months, decided to take action: She paid $1,100 to have the MRI scan done in Michigan.
  • “Seizure patients face long MRI waits, group says,” The Kitchener-Waterloo Record, By Anne Kelly (June 15, 2007) (Subscription Required)
  • “Wait for MRI tests too long in region,” The Kitchener-Waterloo Record (June 9, 2007) (Subscription Required)
  • “‘Totally Unacceptable,’” The Kitchener-Waterloo Record, By Anne Kelly (June 7, 2007) (Subscription Required)
Sheryl Smolkin

Sheryl Smolkin had been undergoing several months of assorted treatments for pain in her right knee, but the pain was still putting a crimp in her quality of life. So, she decided to go to Buffalo, New York in late December for an MRI. She had an appointment at 1:30 a.m. on Feb. 21 at a Toronto hospital, but simply didn’t want to put it off any longer. With the assistance of Richard Baker at Vancouver-based Timely Medical Alternatives, she arranged to have the procedure done at a convenient time five days later for $465 (CDN). The only waiting she had to do was the two hours in traffic it took to cross the Queenston-Lewiston Bridge into the United States. Based on the MRI, her knee problem has been diagnosed, but that’s only the first step. A February appointment with a specialist will determine if she’ll need to go on another wait list for surgery.
  • “Shuffling off to Buffalo for an MRI,” Employee Benefit News Canada, By Sheryl Smolkin (February 1, 2007) (Subscription Required)
Vince Motta

Vince Motta, 23, died of a severe asthma attack after he was airlifted to Rockyview Hospital following appendix surgery at High River hospital. Motta and his mother had waited at both Rockyview and Foothills Hospital, but eventually left due to the long waits.
  • “Deaths deserve a public inquiry,” The Calgary Herald, Editorial By Maureen L. Prowse (June 17, 2007) (Subscription Required)
  • “CHR review clears hospital in death of Calgary teenager; Parents of boy ‘disappointed’ with finding,” The Calgary Herald, (June 13, 2007) (Subscription Required)
  • “Families upset city health care inquiry delayed; Five appendicitis deaths in 10 years at city hospitals,” The Calgary Herald, By Sean Myers, (May 2, 2007) (Subscription Required)
Virginia Yule

Virginia Yule, 49, met her surgeon only twice, for a total of 45 minutes, to learn she needed a biopsy after a mammogram found a shadow on her breast, and then to be told she had cancer. So she wrote her doctor a letter. “I really wanted her to know who I was,” she says now, cancer-free for seven years. Ms. Yule’s desire to be seen as a person is a common complaint among cancer patients caught in a system that seems overwhelmed by waiting lists and swamped by test results, where phone calls tunnel through to voice mail and a busy doctor may have mere minutes to explain the most complicated, heart-stopping medical information.
  • “I made noise, and things moved,” The Globe and Mail, By Erin Anderssen (December 9, 2006)
 

klein

Für Meno :)
You know teeguy, I even believe all these stories are true.
Now, lets hear some stories of the 47 million uninsured, and 18000 deaths per year, because of lack of medicare for them, in the USA.

I admit, we hear the 1 or 2 cases per year that make the headline news here.
We, just had another headline news story on TV yesterday.
A Pakistan family, that was refused refugee status here, but mother has cancer.. and we won`t treat her...
But, I bet, today, when I watch the news, she`ll be taken care of. (because it made news).
But, she`ll still get deported, but given free healthcare.

You don`t think we see the million dollar lawsuits in America, for mal practise, etc .
You always get something, that didn`t function properly in Healthcare.. could be Admistration, or whatever...
Always the oddball case, the system didn`t work.

Nothing is 100%. Either is an express package from UPS to be delivered next day before 10:30am.
 

tieguy

Banned
You know teeguy, I even believe all these stories are true.
Now, lets hear some stories of the 47 million uninsured, and 18000 deaths per year, because of lack of medicare for them, in the USA.

.

I'm glad to see you call me teeguy that shows you're starting to get annoyed because you know I'm right.

I have no problem hearing american horror stories from americans.

what I don't understand is why a canadian would be telling them to me when it would benifit the canadian to focus on his own problems?
 

1989

Well-Known Member
A few of them. When the Vancouver Hospitals were full, some were sent to nearby (50 miles) to Seattle. All paid for.

And I recall a pregnacy with 8-lits... 1 American hospital just done that procedure succesfully a few months prior.
Canadian Doctors didn`t want to take a chance, and sent her to the very same hospital, including cdn specialists.
Was also all paid for.

We learn from eachother.
Americans come here too, for procedures.
It works bothways.


Vancouver to Seattle is more like 150 miles (3 hour drive. Not including any time spent in customs) They were then probably sent to Harborview which isn't necessarily the best hospital in Seattle. They are known mostly for their trauma center. If they were being seen in the trauma center they would be arriving by helo.
 

klein

Für Meno :)
I'm glad to see you call me teeguy that shows you're starting to get annoyed because you know I'm right.

I have no problem hearing american horror stories from americans.

what I don't understand is why a canadian would be telling them to me when it would benifit the canadian to focus on his own problems?

Because , maybe you`ll learn something from us..



Canada: The Best Advanced Economy in the World




canada-the-best-advanced-economy-in-the-world.jpg

The Good Times Roll in Vancouver, Canada
Vancouver, Canada, 28 July 2009. As Americans, we often jokingly poke fun at our northern neighbor by referring to Canada as the "51st state". We say they talk funny; their baseball is no good, and their beer is overpriced. And don't forget the ice hockey jokes. But really, I think we're just jealous.

To start with, we're envious of their solid healthcare system. Discussions on the healthcare reform underway in the US now often refer to Canada's system as a cheaper and better model. It seems to be the benchmark by which we judge our own.

The US healthcare system comprises 15.2 percent of GDP while Canada's is only 9.7 percent. And it still outperforms the US system by all measures. The life expectancy in the US is 78 years. Canada's is 81.

Car manufacturers have been moving jobs north for years to avoid the high healthcare costs in the US. Now Ontario is the largest carmaker in North America, even out-producing Michigan.

The next obvious point of envy is the Canadian banking system. It is the world's healthiest, according to The World Economic Forum. The US banking system ranked 40th while Britain's is 44th.

Despite sharing a huge border and plenty of trade with the US, Canada has not been contaminated by the financial epidemic which has brought down the US economy.

It hasn't had a single bailout, bank failure or need for government to interfere with its financial system.

US banks are leveraged at an average of 26 to 1, while Canadian banks only borrow 18 to 1. Even worse is European banks, which are geared 61 to 1.

Canada has stuck to the tried-and-true rules of banking, borrowing, and risk. It has remained conservative and sensible, and hasn't been tricked into thinking it could beat the markets, unlike much of the rest of the world.

Housing, the root of the US credit crunch, is also remarkably robust in Canada. While prices have dropped about 12 percent in Canada during the crisis, they have dropped twice that in the US.

How about that irritating budget deficit the US carries? Canada doesn't have that problem – it has run a surplus for the past dozen years. It now has cash that can pull it out of any economic drags it may be facing.

Immigration is another issue. Criteria to live in Canada are based on education, work experience, language skills and other merit-based criteria. It is not xenophobic like the American system that only permits a few of the many who want to work and live in the US.

As a result, Canada is drawing skilled and educated manpower, mainly from Asia. Microsoft even set up a Vancouver research center specifically to attract "highly skilled people affected by immigration issues in the U.S."

It might be cold and icy, but Canada has the fundamentals of healthcare, finance, and the economy down. And they still love beer and baseball.

Vladimir Gonazales, EconomyWatch.com
 

tieguy

Banned
Because , maybe you`ll learn something from us..

And I would want to learn how to live under a health system where those with life threatening illnesses leave the country for their treatment?

I don't think so in fact we are trying to fight that system here so canadians will still have a place to go to when they have a serious illness.
 

fact check

Well-Known Member
Tie,

You are aware that the stories you are spouting about are a product of CMPI Advance, a shady outfit with ties to Pharma and PR firms that work for Pharma.

It is propaganda, plain and simple.

Easy to see why you fall for it.
 

tieguy

Banned
Tie,

You are aware that the stories you are spouting about are a product of CMPI Advance, a shady outfit with ties to Pharma and PR firms that work for Pharma.

It is propaganda, plain and simple.

Easy to see why you fall for it.

What I do realize is everything you don't like is either propaganda or motivated by racism.
 
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