Gov healthcare

klein

Für Meno :)
Germans believe a lot in pre and aftercare.
It's cheaper for them to totally cure you, then having you be back hospitailized just months later.
In your case, you would be off to Spa Treatment for atleast 3 weeks.

I don't need spa treatment and having some would not improve on anything I went through.

I'm not sure why you keep trying to shine this turd up. The fact is the german hospitals screwed up the pre care to the degree that the after care resulted in a coffin. That the part you're not getting.

Why don't you make yourself rich then, and sue the hospital !
Thats what americans know best.
Hire a lawyer ! They work for free, and get a share.

Won't bring him back, but atleast some compensation.
 

island1fox

Well-Known Member
:happy-very:No disrepect to Tie and Klien -but to focus on this Historic Bill:
Seems like complaints from both left and right --Could it possibly make wkmac happy ? No --
1. No public option
2. Young people will opt to pay 750. dollar penalty -rather than two to three thousand for health care.
3. If or when young get sick -private insurance cannot turn them down ---%of more sick covered--high % well not covered --will drive up costs ---private insurance will raise all premiums.
4. To pay for all of the illegal aliens to be covered -the gov will reduce medicare payments to doctors by 22% while not forcing doctors to accept medicare. Common sense will tell you that less doctors will accept medicare or they will charge the private insurance patients 22% more.
5. With less doctors accepting Medicare ---and millions and millions of baby boomers retiring --the elderly have been sold out. Long waiting lists and rationing{who said death panels} will be a reality. Including UPS seniors that are tossed into medicare. Nice to know you worked hard your whole life --and your elderly care will be much worse that an illegal alien !!!

Nancy Pelosi and the Democrats are ramming this down our throats as a "Christmas Present" With the combo medicare/private --mostly the Seniors will suffer.
Shame also on the AARP --they are selling MEDIGAP Insurance that will make them Billions off the elderly peoples backs.
With all that stated --20 to thirty million will still not be covered.
Do not respond with Republican "blocking bull" This Legislation is staight Democrat with all the votes needed--once you calmly dissect it --you will see that it is a disaster that will raise heath care cost for all !!!
As Howard Dean has pointed out --only the Private health Insurance companies will profit big time from this Bill. I guess he is a "right wing " nut.
Also the House -Pelosi is stating the Senate Bill will be the one-MINOR OR NO CHANGES from the house.

Does not matter what is in the Bill --who it will hurt-the cost or who will benefit --Just Give OBAMA his Glory.
Obama has stated that he has sent his wife and family on to Hawaii for Vacation --but he will sacrafice himself and stay in the White House until the Historic vote. After Gloating and telling America How great he is --Air force one will make a second trip to hawaii on Christmas eve. So much for Global warming:angry:
 

moreluck

golden ticket member
After Christmas, San Fran Nan has to start campaigning. I don't understand how anyone could vote for her. She's 69 already......San Fran needs a younger person in that spot!
 

brett636

Well-Known Member
Quote from Sarah Palin's facebook message:

Last weekend while you were preparing for the holidays with your family, Harry Reid’s Senate was making shady backroom deals to ram through the Democrat health care take-over. The Senate ended debate on this bill without even reading it. That and midnight weekend votes seem to be standard operating procedures in D.C. No one is certain of what’s in the bill, but Senator Jim DeMint spotted one shocking revelation regarding the section in the bill describing the Independent Medicare Advisory Board (now called the Independent Payment Advisory Board), which is a panel of bureaucrats charged with cutting health care costs on the backs of patients – also known as rationing. Apparently Reid and friends have changed the rules of the Senate so that the section of the bill dealing with this board can’t be repealed or amended without a 2/3 supermajority vote. Senator DeMint said:

“This is a rule change. It’s a pretty big deal. We will be passing a new law and at the same time creating a senate rule that makes it out of order to amend or even repeal the law. I’m not even sure that it’s constitutional, but if it is, it most certainly is a senate rule. I don’t see why the majority party wouldn’t put this in every bill. If you like your law, you most certainly would want it to have force for future senates. I mean, we want to bind future congresses. This goes to the fundamental purpose of senate rules: to prevent a tyrannical majority from trampling the rights of the minority or of future congresses.”

In other words, Democrats are protecting this rationing “death panel” from future change with a procedural hurdle. You have to ask why they’re so concerned about protecting this particular provision. Could it be because bureaucratic rationing is one important way Democrats want to “bend the cost curve” and keep health care spending down?

The Congressional Budget Office seems to think that such rationing has something to do with cost. In a letter to Harry Reid last week, CBO Director Douglas Elmendorf noted (with a number of caveats) that the bill’s calculations call for a reduction in Medicare’s spending rate by about 2 percent in the next two decades, but then he writes the kicker:

“It is unclear whether such a reduction in the growth rate could be achieved, and if so, whether it would be accomplished through greater efficiencies in the delivery of health care or would reduce access to care or diminish the quality of care.”

Though Nancy Pelosi and friends have tried to call “death panels” the “lie of the year,” this type of rationing – what the CBO calls “reduc[ed] access to care” and “diminish[ed] quality of care” – is precisely what I meant when I used that metaphor.

This health care bill is one of the most far-reaching and expensive expansions of the role of government into our lives. We’re talking about putting one-seventh of our economy under the government’s thumb. We’re also talking about something as intimate to our personal well-being as medical care.

This bill is so unpopular that people on the right and the left hate it. So why go through with it? The Senate is planning to vote on this on Christmas Eve. Why the rush? Though we will begin paying for this bill immediately, we will see no benefits for years. (That’s the trick that allowed the CBO to state that the bill won’t grow the deficit for the next ten years.)

The administration’s promises of transparency and bipartisanship have been broken one by one. This entire process has been defined by midnight votes on weekends, closed-door meetings with industry lobbyists, and payoffs to politicians willing to sell their principles for sweetheart deals. Is it any wonder that Americans are so disillusioned with their leaders in Washington?

This is about politics, not health care. Americans don’t want this bill. Americans don’t like this bill. Washington has stopped listening to us. But we’re paying attention, and 2010 is coming.

- Sarah Palin
 

tieguy

Banned
I agree, Canadians are soo rich, we flock by the millions to pay for healthcare in the states.
It's great to live in such a rich country !

If you're telling me that Canadians are flocking to the United States to pay for something they get free then canadians are dumber then I thought.

 

tieguy

Banned
Germans believe a lot in pre and aftercare.
It's cheaper for them to totally cure you, then having you be back hospitailized just months later.
In your case, you would be off to Spa Treatment for atleast 3 weeks.

I think this point requires further analysis since it identifies a fundamental difference in our mindset.

Your statement I believe emulates the mindset of a socialist. You proudly proclaim that a socialist health care program would provide me with a spa treatment plan for three weeks as if this is some gift the government would provide me.

I look at that as something I don't need to get better. I also look at it as an unnecessary expense that my tax dollars would have to pay for under a plan of the type you're pushing.

I'm presently going through a rehab exercise program that is helping me get my strength back, exercising under medical supervision. That I need a spa I do not need and inflates the cost of health beyond what is required.

In this example I'm sure the spa treatment helps Germany rank well on the world health care rankings. Meanwhile I have concerns about Germanys ability to perform good basic life saving diagnostics.

A cadillac with leather seats is a nice thing to have but worthless if the engine won't run.
 

tieguy

Banned
http://www.globes.co.il/serveen/globes/docview.asp?did=1000525014&fid=3843

How the healthcare debate is making everyone sick.

"Dr. Jeffrey Flier, dean of Harvard Medical School claims that “the people who favor the legislation are engaged in collective denial. There are no provisions to substantively control the growth of costs or raise the quality of care. In fact, the legislation will markedly accelerate national healthcare spending and would do little or nothing to improve quality or change healthcare's dysfunctional delivery system.”
 

Babagounj

Strength through joy
245 - Executive Order 13507 - Establishment of the White House Office of Health Reform
April 8, 2009

By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, and in the interest of providing all Americans access to affordable and high-quality health care, it is hereby ordered as follows:

Section 1. Policy. Reforming the health care system is a key goal of my Administration. The health care system suffers from serious and pervasive problems; access to health care is constrained by high and rising costs; and the quality of care is not consistent and must be improved, in order to improve the health of our citizens and our economic security.

Sec. 2. Establishment. (a) There is established a White House Office of Health Reform (Health Reform Office) within the Executive Office of the President that will provide leadership to the executive branch in establishing policies, priorities, and objectives for the Federal Government's comprehensive effort to improve access to health care, the quality of such care, and the sustainability of the health care system.
(b) The Secretary of Health and Human Services, to the extent permitted by law, shall establish within the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) an Office of Health Reform, which shall coordinate closely with the White House Office of Health Reform.

Sec. 3. Functions. The principal functions of the Health Reform Office, to the extent permitted by law, are to:
(a) provide leadership for and to coordinate the development of the Administration's policy agenda across executive departments and agencies concerning the provision of high-quality, affordable, and accessible health care and to slow the growth of health costs; this shall include coordinating policy development with the Domestic Policy Council, National Economic Council, Council of Economic Advisers, Office of Management and Budget, HHS, Office of Personnel Management, and such other executive departments and agencies as the Director of the Health Reform Office may deem appropriate;
(b) work with executive departments and agencies to ensure that Federal Government policy decisions and programs are consistent with the President's stated goals with respect to health reform;
(c) integrate the President's policy agenda concerning health reform across the Federal Government;
(d) coordinate public outreach activities conducted by executive departments and agencies designed to gather input from the public, from demonstration and pilot projects, and from public-private partnerships on the problems and priorities for policy measures designed to meet the President's goals for improvement of the health care system;
(e) bring to the President's attention concerns, ideas, and policy options for strengthening, increasing the efficiency, and improving the quality of the health care system;
(friend) work with State, local, and community policymakers and public officials to expand coverage, improve quality and efficiency, and slow the growth of health costs;
(g) develop and implement strategic initiatives under the President's agenda to strengthen the public agencies and private organizations that can improve the performance of the health care system;
(h) work with the Congress and executive departments and agencies to eliminate unnecessary legislative, regulatory, and other bureaucratic barriers that impede effective delivery of efficient and high-quality health care;
(i) monitor implementation of the President's agenda on health reform; and
(j) help ensure that policymakers across the executive branch work toward the President's health care agenda.
 

wkmac

Well-Known Member
Not following you what are christian scientists being forced to buy?


Tie,

Christian Scientist don't believe in traditional/orthodox medicine so the new healthcare plan (requirement to buy health insurance) would force them to purchase something that their religious beliefs prohibit them from ever using. Think of something that your own ideals prohibit you from using or doing and then the gov't comes along and at gunpoint, they command you to buy it. Or an Amish person commanded to buy a car. I believe that to some degree was Pickup's point and :thumbup1: to him for making it.

From Glenn Greenwald @ Salon

Healthcare Industry Stocks Explode as Bill Progresses
 

tieguy

Banned
Tie,

Christian Scientist don't believe in traditional/orthodox medicine so the new healthcare plan (requirement to buy health insurance) would force them to purchase something that their religious beliefs prohibit them from ever using. Think of something that your own ideals prohibit you from using or doing and then the gov't comes along and at gunpoint, they command you to buy it. Or an Amish person commanded to buy a car. I believe that to some degree was Pickup's point and :thumbup1: to him for making it.

From Glenn Greenwald @ Salon

Healthcare Industry Stocks Explode as Bill Progresses

Ok As such would the forced purchase of life saving medicines then justify the forced purchase of health insurance?
 
P

pickup

Guest
Tie,

Christian Scientist don't believe in traditional/orthodox medicine so the new healthcare plan (requirement to buy health insurance) would force them to purchase something that their religious beliefs prohibit them from ever using. Think of something that your own ideals prohibit you from using or doing and then the gov't comes along and at gunpoint, they command you to buy it. Or an Amish person commanded to buy a car. I believe that to some degree was Pickup's point and :thumbup1: to him for making it.

From Glenn Greenwald @ Salon

Healthcare Industry Stocks Explode as Bill Progresses


Yeah, I guess that was point . Now I'll take it to a different level, maybe someone feels that a massage or reflexology is the way to go, the money that would have gone to the practitioners of that has to go to pay for health insurance(and that term "health insurance" is really a misnomer, can anyone insure your health.?Your car ,perhaps, if damaged, insurance will pay to make your car whole again, can the medical industry really restore your medical health? No. On the question of auto insurance, if you don't like it , you don't buy a car. By virtue of someone having a body and being an american citizen, now he is forced to buy something he may not have wanted. Free market means willing producers and consumers. This is forced consumption or at the very least , being forced to pay for something you may not want to use, i.e. our christian scientist friends.

I am surprised that you never heard of the christian scientists, tie. They usually make the news when a child of a christian scientist couple is sick(perhaps cancer) and they refuse to have the child treated conventionally. The state then steps in and rules the parents negligent if they don't have the child treated the way the a.m.a says he should be treated.
Now if a christian scientist who is an adult has cancer, he usually can get away without conventional treatment and not run afoul of the state. But there is a catch, the doctors can rule the patient not of sound mind by virtue of rejecting the prescribed treatment (which is always medicine provided by a very profitable drug industry) . The doctors then use the power of the state to coerce the patient in remaining a patient. Patient can't argue "I can't afford it" since he now has medical insurance that he was forced to buy.

Final point, no more such thing as a second opinion now. The second doctor will enter your s.s. (S.S, how fitting) number into the system and see your records including the diagnosis of the previous physician. Do you think he is going to go against the known opinion of another physician.
Before this measure , you could get a real second opinion as the second doctor did not have a clue what the first doctor said about your condition.

Who benefits from this? Yes, the drug companies who I am sure played a great role in how this came about. They figured that if they are going to be regulated, they might as well determine how they were going to be regulated in an effort to make even more money than before.

Sad Day for America. I hope we can vote these 60 rotten scoundrels out of office and replace then with 60 rotten scoundrels from the other side who hopefully will turn this back.

Good going Obama, you are going to replace Jimmy Carter as the worst one term president.

Yeah , I rambled. Tough!
 
P

pickup

Guest
Not following you what are christian scientists being forced to buy?

Okay, now I see my other point and why I made that comment in conjunction with your. , you linked up to articles that mention the unconstitutionality of this measure. I liked those arguments. I also think it might be unconstitutional when the measure goes against the religious rights of some people, namely christian scientists.

Here is my edit: I realized if I thought of this, the christian scientists thought of it too and they went in a different direction than I thought, check out this link about how christian scientists want the cost of their treatments to be included under this plan:

http://www.latimes.com/features/health/la-na-health-religion3-2009nov03,0,2239900.story

Did it go through? I don't know. Like the senators who voted yes for this thing, I haven't read it either.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Top