guns

[cachsux]

[ QUOTE=cachsux;970301]Why must anyone on the side against gun ownership alway toss out the word fear? You've been reading TOS's script for too long.

You are simply wrong. I am not in the least against gun ownership. If that is what someone wants, then fine. But it seems to me that people are always going on and about defending themselves against "them". "Them" seems to be someone or something that is going to take away something they have or keep them from getting something they want. Bill Wilson described this as fear and an "evil and corroding thread running through our lives".[/QUOTE]

I'm not worried about "Them" in the least. Them can live their lives as best they can. Guns in my household are used for two things. target shooting and home defense. Them have nothing to worry about unless Them break into my house and,given sufficient reason, then Them will find themselves being carried out. No fear just a simple fact

I guess I should be offended. I'm not.

That wasn't intended as a shot at you (no pun) but rather just being fed up with TOS's catch phrase. The coloring book comment was toward TOS's level of maturity in getting TOS's point across.

 

[soberups]

You are simply wrong. I am not in the least against gun ownership. If that is what someone wants, then fine. But it seems to me that people are always going on and about defending themselves against "them". "Them" seems to be someone or something that is going to take away something they have or keep them from getting something they want. Bill Wilson described this as fear and an "evil and corroding thread running through our lives".

As one who has some level of familiarity with Bill W's writings, I can tell you that the "evil and corroding thread" refers to those of us with fear-based character defects that compel us to try and manage and control all of the people, places and things in our lives. We want to "play God" instead of simply turning the things we cant control over to Him and accepting the outcome.

Reasonable, prudent precautions do not an "evil and corroding thread" make. I do not "fear" getting in a traffic accident...but I still wear my seatbelt whenever I get into the car. I do not "fear" fire...but I still keep a fire extinguisher handy in my kitchen. And I do not "fear" getting robbed or murdered...but I still carry a gun whenever it is possible for me to do so.

 

[bbsam]

As one who has some level of familiarity with Bill W's writings, I can tell you that the "evil and corroding thread" refers to those of us with fear-based character defects that compel us to try and manage and control all of the people, places and things in our lives. We want to "play God" instead of simply turning the things we cant control over to Him and accepting the outcome.

Reasonable, prudent precautions do not an "evil and corroding thread" make. I do not "fear" getting in a traffic accident...but I still wear my seatbelt whenever I get into the car. I do not "fear" fire...but I still keep a fire extinguisher handy in my kitchen. And I do not "fear" getting robbed or murdered...but I still carry a gun whenever it is possible for me to do so.

You make excellent points. Yes. I bring a certain viewpoint to the discussion that is very much framed not only by my past but my present as well. I have come to believe that we are not so much alike in our virtues as we are in our defects. I do view the world through these lenses and ascribe fear perhaps where it doesn't exist but I think it remains for the most part fairly accurate. Fear is not something limited to a few of us and shows it's manifestations in many different ways.

What I don't understand in the gun debate is two-fold. First is the every piece of gun legislation is an attempt to "take our guns away". And second, why do gun owners even get pulled into the question of why they own a gun? That's where this whole thread started. Why not just say, "Because I want to and in this country it is my right"?

 

[bbsam]

Ridicule is a mean- spirited and closed minded form of discourse that leads to polarization and extremism.

Not really. Jon Stewart can ridicule Newt Gingrich and the two can sit down and have a great interview. He can make fun of Bush's foreign policy and be "smitten" with Condi Rice (I share his view of her).

I can ridicule gun owners and still be accepting of their rights to own guns. I can ascribe fear to their decision and not be "out to take their guns away". I think ridicule in this case is not mean at all because it is simply a view of "us". Whether someone owns a gun or not, it is a "right" that we share as American citizens. When wk ridicules people for voting flip sides of the same coin, it's acceptable because it is "us"-- he is part of the debate. Maybe that's why it is ok for blacks to use the "N" word. It has become part of who we are, not what we are.

 

[dilligaf]

You make excellent points. Yes. I bring a certain viewpoint to the discussion that is very much framed not only by my past but my present as well. I have come to believe that we are not so much alike in our virtues as we are in our defects. I do view the world through these lenses and ascribe fear perhaps where it doesn't exist but I think it remains for the most part fairly accurate. Fear is not something limited to a few of us and shows it's manifestations in many different ways.

What I don't understand in the gun debate is two-fold. First is the every piece of gun legislation is an attempt to "take our guns away". And second, why do gun owners even get pulled into the question of why they own a gun? That's where this whole thread started. Why not just say, "Because I want to and in this country it is my right"?

Good questions. My interpretation.........................

Gun legislation - please clarify the question further.

The second question - there have been many replies that basically say the same thing, though maybe not word for word. The likes of TOS cannot accept such a simplistic answer and constantly has to badger and harass trying to get us to change our minds or accept his POV. It ain't happenin. He can't accept my POV I refuse to accept his. I chose to own guns because I want to and in this country I have the right to.

 

[soberups]

So last night....

It was about 3:00AM and my wife woke me up. Our dogs (toy poodle and Basset Hound) were growling and barking downstairs, which they never do unless someone or something is at the door or in the back yard. Our adult children (who no longer live with us) both still have keys to our home, but our dogs would not bark at them and they both know better than to just come in unannounced at 3:00AM.

We both sat up and listened for a minute. Couldnt hear anything out of the ordinary, other than the dogs. I took a moment to make sure I was fully awake and alert, and thought about what to do.

I considered calling the police....but for what? Do I wake up the whole damn neighborhood and consume valuable police resources and response time simply because my dogs are whining and I am scared to go down stairs? No, without more evidence of some sort of intruder, calling the police would have been an overreaction on my part.

Do I go downstairs unarmed to see what the dogs are carrying on about? No...even if I felt confident in my own unarmed combat abilities, I have to protect my wife and if I go down there and get my ass kicked, or worse, then by the time she called the cops and they arrived it might be too late for them to do anything except take pictures of both of our dead bodies.

So after careful consideration and discussion with my wife....making sure we were both fully awake and alert...I went downstairs with my 6-cell MagLight in one hand and my Smith and Wesson .357 in the other. Another gun stayed in the bedroom where my wife could get it. I yelled downstairs that anybody who was in my house had better get out, and proceeded down the steps.

Of course, nobody was down there and all of my doors were securely locked. The dogs were barking at the noise created by a patio umbrella on our back deck that the wind had blown over and pushed up against the side of the house. You know what, though? I was damn glad at that point that the 2nd Amendment gurantees me the right to keep and bear arms, and damn glad that I dont live in some hellhole like Chicago or Washington DC or California that goes to ridiculous lengths to deny me that right. The TOS's of the world believe that we should cower in fear and wait for the police to come and save us when things go bump in the night. I dont want to cower in fear; I just want to be able to go downstairs make sure a burglar isnt in my house at 3:00AM without worrying about what might happen to my wife if the bad guy gets past me.

 

[bbsam]

Congrats. I too slept safe and secure last night pleased to know that I too have Second Ammendment rights and can exercise them as I see fit.

 

[BigUnionGuy]

THIS IS AN ACTUAL PERSONAL AD FROM THE "SAVANNAH TRIBUNE" NEWSPAPER PLACED IN DECEMBER 2009........

AN ACTUAL PERSONAL AD
To the Guy Who Tried to Mug Me In Downtown Savannah night before last.
Date: 2009-05-27, 1 :43 a.m. E.S.T.
I was the guy wearing the black Burberry jacket that you demanded that I hand over, shortly after you pulled the knife on me and my girlfriend, threatening our lives. You also asked for my girlfriend's purse and earrings. I can only hope that you somehow come across this rather important message.
First, I'd like to apologize for your embarrassment; I didn't expect you to actually crap in your pants when I drew my pistol after you took my jacket.. The evening was not that cold, and I was wearing the jacket for a reason.. My girlfriend had just bought me that Kimber Model 1911 .45 ACP pistol for my birthday, and we had picked up a shoulder holster for it that very evening. Obviously you agree that it is a very intimidating weapon when pointed at your head ... isn't it?!
I know it probably wasn't fun walking back to wherever you'd come from with that brown sludge in your pants. I'm sure it was even worse walking bare-footed since I made you leave your shoes, cell phone, and wallet with me. [That prevented you from calling or running to your buddies to come help mug us again].
After I called your mother or "Momma" as you had her listed in your cell, I explained the entire episode of what you'd done. Then I went and filled up my gas tank as well as those of four other people in the gas station, -- on your credit card. The guy with the big motor home took 150 gallons and was extremely grateful!
I gave your shoes to a homeless guy outside Vinnie Van Go Go's, along with all the cash in your wallet. [That made his day!]
I then threw your wallet into the big pink "pimp mobile" that was parked at the curb ... after I broke the windshield and side window and keyed the entire driver's side of the car.
Later, I called a bunch of phone sex numbers from your cell phone. Ma Bell just now shut down the line, although I only used the phone for a little over a day now, so what 's going on with that? Earlier, I managed to get in two threatening phone calls to the DA's office and one to the FBI, while mentioning President Obama as my possible target.
The FBI guy seemed really intense and we had a nice long chat (I guess while he traced your number etc.).
In a way, perhaps I should apologize for not killing you . but I feel this type of retribution is a far more appropriate punishment for your threatened crime.. I wish you well as you try to sort through some of these rather immediate pressing issues, and can only hope that you have the opportunity to reflect upon, and perhaps reconsider, the career path you've chosen to pursue in life. Remember, next time you might not be so lucky.Have a good day!
Thoughtfully yours,
Alex

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Sober, this is my defense against home invasion:

Light Saber TBBT - YouTube

 

[Jones]

THIS IS AN ACTUAL PERSONAL AD FROM THE "SAVANNAH TRIBUNE" NEWSPAPER PLACED IN DECEMBER 2009........

AN ACTUAL PERSONAL AD
To the Guy Who Tried to Mug Me In Downtown Savannah night before last.
Date: 2009-05-27, 1 :43 a.m. E.S.T.
I was the guy wearing the black Burberry jacket that you demanded that I hand over, shortly after you pulled the knife on me and my girlfriend, threatening our lives. You also asked for my girlfriend's purse and earrings. I can only hope that you somehow come across this rather important message.
First, I'd like to apologize for your embarrassment; I didn't expect you to actually crap in your pants when I drew my pistol after you took my jacket.. The evening was not that cold, and I was wearing the jacket for a reason.. My girlfriend had just bought me that Kimber Model 1911 .45 ACP pistol for my birthday, and we had picked up a shoulder holster for it that very evening. Obviously you agree that it is a very intimidating weapon when pointed at your head ... isn't it?!
I know it probably wasn't fun walking back to wherever you'd come from with that brown sludge in your pants. I'm sure it was even worse walking bare-footed since I made you leave your shoes, cell phone, and wallet with me. [That prevented you from calling or running to your buddies to come help mug us again].
After I called your mother or "Momma" as you had her listed in your cell, I explained the entire episode of what you'd done. Then I went and filled up my gas tank as well as those of four other people in the gas station, -- on your credit card. The guy with the big motor home took 150 gallons and was extremely grateful!
I gave your shoes to a homeless guy outside Vinnie Van Go Go's, along with all the cash in your wallet. [That made his day!]
I then threw your wallet into the big pink "pimp mobile" that was parked at the curb ... after I broke the windshield and side window and keyed the entire driver's side of the car.
Later, I called a bunch of phone sex numbers from your cell phone. Ma Bell just now shut down the line, although I only used the phone for a little over a day now, so what 's going on with that? Earlier, I managed to get in two threatening phone calls to the DA's office and one to the FBI, while mentioning President Obama as my possible target.
The FBI guy seemed really intense and we had a nice long chat (I guess while he traced your number etc.).
In a way, perhaps I should apologize for not killing you . but I feel this type of retribution is a far more appropriate punishment for your threatened crime.. I wish you well as you try to sort through some of these rather immediate pressing issues, and can only hope that you have the opportunity to reflect upon, and perhaps reconsider, the career path you've chosen to pursue in life. Remember, next time you might not be so lucky.Have a good day!
Thoughtfully yours,
Alex

snopes

 

[moreluck]

Lock your damn doors, people !!!!

Police track leads after Utah girl allegedly comes face-to-face with home intruder | Fox News

 

[klein]

Yet, another reason to have a gun at home :

Florida mother kills her four children, then herself
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/stand-ground-defense-fails-florida-shooting-case-030038820.html
Reuters – 17 hours ago

MIAMI (Reuters) - A mother shot and killed her four children before turning a gun on herself in a small town in Florida on Tuesday, authorities said.
The shooting happened at a house in Port St. John, in Brevard County, about 15 miles from NASA's Kennedy Space Center.

A spokesman for the Brevard County Sheriff's office identified the victims as four children aged 12, 13, 15 and 17. They were shot by their 33-year-old mother, Tonya Thomas, who then turned the gun on herself, Tod Goodyear said.
All were shot with what appeared to be a handgun, he said.

 

[moreluck]

And when Susan Smith drowned her 2 sons in a pond by driving the car into the water and trapping them....................we should get rid of all cars and all standing water??

Hot Dogs kill too !!

 

[klein]

And when Susan Smith drowned her 2 sons in a pond by driving the car into the water and trapping them....................we should get rid of all cars and all standing water??

Hot Dogs kill too !!

Nope, just keep the ponds & lakes frozen 6 mths out of the year, like we do !

 

[Babagounj]

That's no solution.
Cars can still break thru the ice, but in deeper water.
Where they might not be found for years , if ever.

 

[bbsam]

That's no solution.
Cars can still break thru the ice, but in deeper water.
Where they might not be found for years , if ever.

Do you have something to confess?

 

[menotyou]

Hmmmmm. Winter isn't that far away..............

 

[The Other Side]

Its really a shame how people ignore all the shootings in this country as if they were a joke. The woman in florida who shot her children is just another case that the GUN freaks would rather ignore than address.
Florida Mom Kills Kids & Self -- Shoots 4, Turns Gun On Herself

This isnt the only one in recent days. People all over this country are shooting their children and themselves with guns.

mother shoots her three children - Google Search

amazingly, we will hear how guns dont kill people.

AS I have said before, cases like these are the reasons guns should not be allowed to be kept in homes unless they are in SAFES separated from ammo. Maybe then, american children would have a chance to survive.

Peace

TOS

 

[Babagounj]

Do you have something to confess?

It usually takes a bad year or two of no rain for many water sources to dry up and to finally close some missing persons cases.

 

[cachsux]

Its really a shame how people ignore all the shootings in this country as if they were a joke. The woman in florida who shot her children is just another case that the GUN freaks would rather ignore than address.
Florida Mom Kills Kids & Self -- Shoots 4, Turns Gun On Herself

This isnt the only one in recent days. People all over this country are shooting their children and themselves with guns.

mother shoots her three children - Google Search

amazingly, we will hear how guns dont kill people.

AS I have said before, cases like these are the reasons guns should not be allowed to be kept in homes unless they are in SAFES separated from ammo. Maybe then, american children would have a chance to survive.

Peace

TOS

How is a gun safe separating the gun from the ammo going to protect an American child from a mentally unstable whack job parent? What about the stabbers, the drowners, the asphyxiator? What's you all knowing all seeing answer to those problems? Or is it true like we say, the person who is inclined to take a life will do so in any manor?