guns

[texan]

Gun Sales Spike After Colorado Massacre

Background checks for people wanting to buy guns in Colorado reportedly increased more
than 41 percent after last week’s Aurora movie massacre. The Denver Post reports that
firearm instructors have also seen increased interest in training needed for a
concealed-carry permit.

"It's been insane," Jake Meyers, an employee at Rocky Mountain Guns and Ammo
in Parker told the newspaper Monday.

Between Friday and Sunday, the Colorado Bureau of Investigation approved
background checks for 2,887 people who wanted to purchase a
firearm — a 43 percent increase over the previous Friday through
Sunday and a 39 percent jump over those same days on the first weekend of July.

The biggest spike was on Friday, when there were 1,216 checks, a 43 percent
increase over the average number for the previous two Fridays.

Gun Sales Spike After Colorado Massacre - Katie Pavlich

 

[brett636]

Yeah, to 1.6 or 1.7 homicides per 100.000 population, where does the US stand ?
over 20 per 100.000 pop or more ? More than 10 fold anyways.

According to the Piers Morgan Show the other day. A gun in the US is 22% times more likely to kill a family member, than a burglar/gangster entering a home and being shot by the gun/home owner.

False, the top 10 countries in the world for homicides do not include the U.S.

 

[bbsam]

Gun Sales Spike After Colorado Massacre

Background checks for people wanting to buy guns in Colorado reportedly increased more
than 41 percent after last week’s Aurora movie massacre. The Denver Post reports that
firearm instructors have also seen increased interest in training needed for a
concealed-carry permit.

"It's been insane," Jake Meyers, an employee at Rocky Mountain Guns and Ammo
in Parker told the newspaper Monday.

Between Friday and Sunday, the Colorado Bureau of Investigation approved
background checks for 2,887 people who wanted to purchase a
firearm — a 43 percent increase over the previous Friday through
Sunday and a 39 percent jump over those same days on the first weekend of July.

The biggest spike was on Friday, when there were 1,216 checks, a 43 percent
increase over the average number for the previous two Fridays.

Gun Sales Spike After Colorado Massacre - Katie Pavlich

I bet Colorado police officers are breathing a sigh of relief now. Or not.

 

[klein]

False, the top 10 countries in the world for homicides do not include the U.S.

Oh yeah, I think any idiot knows that Sudan, and other countries in Africa and the middle east are first on that list.
Why not compare the US with other industrialized, western countries like that did yesterday on TV.
Here are a few examples :

Japan 39 murders last year.
GB 85 murders
France 165
Canada 185
Germany 245
USA 12 476 !

 

[moreluck]

Why compare the U.S. to any other countries that aren't as good ????? IMO!

 

[The Other Side]

Obviously, you have not read many of his posts.

If you dont have anything intelligent to add, dont add anything. I cant ridicule you without it being deleted, and you have an unfair advantage. A battle of stupid cant exist if both players dont have equal time.

Peace

TOS

 

[The Other Side]

If I am sitting in the first couple of rows of that theater when the lunatic walks in wearing body armor and hosing people down with his AR-15, then I and everyone around me is probably screwed whether I have a gun on me or not.

However...your assertion that cowering on my knees and praying that I dont get shot will somehow "improve" the survival odds for those around me is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard.

Sober,

Like I said in my post but you ignore, YOU keep trying to "fit neatly in your box" without regard to anyone else. You CANNOT make a decision for the people around YOU while you John Wayne your way into getting shot.

You bet your ash that if you hit the ground in the dark with smoke billowing and the shooter having limited visibility that YOU would increase the odds of staying alive. Pulling out your beloved backbone and firing at the shooter would only GUARANTEE that YOU get shot, and not only YOU but everyone around you that YOU jeopardized with your John Wayne behavior.

Of course if you are in the first few rows you are more likely to be hit first and that is just common sense, however, another gun(s) in the theatre wasnt, isnt and will never be the answer.

The theatre should have had extra staff working inside the theatre securing the exits (they never do) even if it was to protect against people sneaking into the theatre to watch the movie for free. This happens all the time. This Legal gun owner simply bought a ticket, walked into the theatre without detection, went to an exit without detection, propped open a door without detection and walked to his car, suited up, collected his legal firearms and bombs and simply walked back in WITHOUT DETECTION and began shooting.

This contribution was the failure of the theatre and theirs only.

Many failures contributed to this tragedy, from the gun laws, to the dealers who sold them, to this guys family who knew he was a loose wire, to neighbors who didnt call the police on him the days before while he was blasting music loudly in his apartment to the movie theatre for its lack of personnel.

If you just change one thing in this chain, maybe this doesnt happen.

Lots of blame to go around.

Changing gears for a sec. I listened to Geraldo Rivera radio yesterday, and heard a callier say something interesting. He mentioned that most of the mass killings in this country are committed by white men, and when a foreigner does a mass shooting its called terrorism like major hassan, and when a black person kills more than one person he is called a monster or a devil, or when a mexican kills more than one he is an animal and a gangster, but when the right wing media describes a WHITE SHOOTER, he is always INSANE or CRAZY and did not know what he was doing.

And thats the case today. FOX news and its surrogates are cailing this guy insane and did not know what he was doing.

Why isnt he called a monster? A devil? A terrorist? A gangster?

Why does he get his action reduced to being nuts and not knowing what he was doing?

Sober, back to the conversation, you have to lift the lids on your box bro.

Peace

TOS

 

[brett636]

Oh yeah, I think any idiot knows that Sudan, and other countries in Africa and the middle east are first on that list.
Why not compare the US with other industrialized, western countries like that did yesterday on TV.
Here are a few examples :

Japan 39 murders last year.
GB 85 murders
France 165
Canada 185
Germany 245
USA 12 476 !

Fact: In Japan, the total murder rate is almost 1 per 100,000. In the U.S., there are about 3.2 murders per 100,000 people each year by weapons other than firearms. This means that even if firearms in the U.S. could be eliminated, the U.S. would still have three times the murder rate of the Japanese. Whereas Japan’s murder rate may be low, its suicide rate is over 20 per 100,000 people. Combined, Japanese are being murdered and committing suicide at a rate of about 21 per 100,000. In the U.S., our combined murder and suicide rate is also about 21.
Fact: Since gun banning has escalated in the UK, the rate of crime – especially violent crime – has risen.
Fact: Ironically, firearm use in crimes in the UK has doubled in the decade since handguns were banned.
Fact: Britain has the highest rate of violent crime in Europe, more so than the United States or even South Africa. They also have the second highest over all crime rate in the European Union. In 2008, Britain had a violent crime rate nearly five times higher than the United states (446 vs. 2034 pre 100,000 population).

 

[soberups]

I bet Colorado police officers are breathing a sigh of relief now. Or not.

Law-abiding citizens who undergo criminal record background checks in order to legally buy firearms arent the ones who the police are worried about.

 

[bbsam]

Law-abiding citizens who undergo criminal record background checks in order to legally buy firearms arent the ones who the police are worried about.

You are saying then that police around the country are in favor of 95% of Americans walking around with concealed weapons? That seems hard to believe.

 

[soberups]

Sober,

Like I said in my post but you ignore, YOU keep trying to "fit neatly in your box" without regard to anyone else. You CANNOT make a decision for the people around YOU while you John Wayne your way into getting shot.

You bet your ash that if you hit the ground in the dark with smoke billowing and the shooter having limited visibility that YOU would increase the odds of staying alive. Pulling out your beloved backbone and firing at the shooter would only GUARANTEE that YOU get shot, and not only YOU but everyone around you that YOU jeopardized with your John Wayne behavior.

Of course if you are in the first few rows you are more likely to be hit first and that is just common sense, however, another gun(s) in the theatre wasnt, isnt and will never be the answer.

In this hypothetical scenario, the decision for myself and the people around me has already been made by the lunatic who walked into the theater with the AR 15 and started shooting.

My only chance...their only chance...is for me or (someone else with a weapon) to take the guy out first. With a gun, I at least have a chance. Without a gun...I have no chance.

Its not about being "John Wayne." Its not about being a "hero." Its about being a survivor instead of a corpse.

 

[brett636]

You are saying then that police around the country are in favor of 95% of Americans walking around with concealed weapons? That seems hard to believe.

66% of police chiefs believe that citizens carrying concealed firearms reduce rates of violent crime

The Law Enforcement Alliance of America, Second Amendment Police Department, and Law Enforcement for the Preservation of the Second Amendment, all of whom support shall-issue concealed carry laws

 

[bbsam]

66% of police chiefs believe that citizens carrying concealed firearms reduce rates of violent crime

Explain this to the Law Enforcement Alliance of America, Second Amendment Police Department, and Law Enforcement for the Preservation of the Second Amendment, all of whom support shall-issue concealed carry laws

I am surprised.

 

[bbsam]

66% of police chiefs believe that citizens carrying concealed firearms reduce rates of violent crime

Explain this to the Law Enforcement Alliance of America, Second Amendment Police Department, and Law Enforcement for the Preservation of the Second Amendment, all of whom support shall-issue concealed carry laws

Where do you get these numbers?

 

[soberups]

You are saying then that police around the country are in favor of 95% of Americans walking around with concealed weapons? That seems hard to believe.

In order to get a concealed weapon permit (I have 2 of them) you have to first undergo an extensive criminal record background check through NCIS. Your fingerprints and palm prints are taken, and sent away to verify that you are not a wanted criminal. You also have to take several hours of training, covering both in the legal aspects of concealed carry and the legalities regarding use of deadly force. You must also take a firearms safety course, including live-fire excercises, from a licensed instructor in order to demonstrate proficiency with a gun. The entire process takes several weeks. Law-abiding citizens who undergo all of this are not criminals, they are not cop-killers and they are not the ones who the police have to fear.

I have had a carry permit now for 16 years. In that period, I have been pulled over by the police in my car on 3 occasions (tail light out twice, headlight out once). When an officer calls my license plates or driver license # in on the radio, he/she will be automatically be told that I also hold a concealed carry permit. None of the officers I dealt with during these traffic stops expressed any apprehension whatsoever about that fact.

 

[soberups]

The theatre should have had extra staff working inside the theatre securing the exits (they never do) even if it was to protect against people sneaking into the theatre to watch the movie for free. This happens all the time. This Legal gun owner simply bought a ticket, walked into the theatre without detection, went to an exit without detection, propped open a door without detection and walked to his car, suited up, collected his legal firearms and bombs and simply walked back in WITHOUT DETECTION and began shooting.

This contribution was the failure of the theatre and theirs only.

Please explain to me how the presence of a teenage usher armed with a flashlight would have stopped a lunatic with an AR-15 from reentering the theater.

Please explain to me how "DETECTION" of the lunatic would have prevented him from carrying out the massacre.

By the time anyone would have "detected" him, it would have been too late. He would have simply shot whichever theater employee was unlucky enough to have "detected" him, and continued on his merry way.

This was a massacre because the lunatic had a monopoly of force. He was armed and his victims weren't.

Oh and by the way...there was a "no guns allowed" sticker on the door of the theater. Apparently, the lunatic didnt see it.

 

[moreluck]

Originally Posted by The Other Side
The theatre should have had extra staff working inside the theatre securing the exits (they never do) even if it was to protect against people sneaking into the theatre to watch the movie for free. This happens all the time. This Legal gun owner simply bought a ticket, walked into the theatre without detection, went to an exit without detection, propped open a door without detection and walked to his car, suited up, collected his legal firearms and bombs and simply walked back in WITHOUT DETECTION and began shooting.

This contribution was the failure of the theatre and theirs only.




So you want to hold a bunch of pimply -faced teenage ushers and usherettes responsible for this shooter's sickness? Making minimum wage , they just wantd the newest electronics and some extra cash..

If you want to blame someone, blame the mailroom and why was his plan sitting in a mailroom for days? It told all of his plans and was addessed to his shrink.!

 

[The Other Side]

In this hypothetical scenario, the decision for myself and the people around me has already been made by the lunatic who walked into the theater with the AR 15 and started shooting.

My only chance...their only chance...is for me or (someone else with a weapon) to take the guy out first. With a gun, I at least have a chance. Without a gun...I have no chance.

Its not about being "John Wayne." Its not about being a "hero." Its about being a survivor instead of a corpse.

You give the same lame answer time after time. Its like talking to a wall. With your gun or without your gun, in your scenario, sitting in the front, EVEN IF you could take out your weapon and WAS ABLE to discharge a round or two, they would have had a ZERO effect on this shooter who was protected from head to toe. YOUR gun would be like throwing marbles at him, and after you engaged him, he would OBVIOUSLY turn his weapons upon you and kill YOU and everyone else next to you.

There are many people in the first rows who survived this shooting without being hit and that ALONE deminishes your argument.

My real problem with guns isnt the gun itself, but the mindset that goes along with it. I believe that gun owners dont really believe its a right, rather, its a mental disorder that the gun just happens to cure at the moment.

Its no different then a painpill, or Ridalin. The mindset of the gun owner all have the same excuses about self protection, but somehow, that ends up manisfesting itself into murders and crimes of passion.

While it may take years for a gun owner to make that decision to kill someone, it always comes to the gun first, not divorce court, not the superior court, not the police, not counseling and not common sense.

Its the gun that fuels crimes of passion and the reason that domestic violence at home ends up with a gun death.

Face it bro, you clearly believe you could be that "hero" that could save the day, and I believe you are that guy who will jeopardize my child in a theatre beyond the original criminal.

Peace

TOS

 

[The Other Side]

SOBER,

here is a video of YOUR future America by allowing all kinds of assault weapons on our streets. Maybe if you were there, you could have taken out your Glock 25 and made a difference?

1997 North Hollywood Shootout pt.1 - YouTube

Please.

TOS

 

[The Other Side]

Please explain to me how the presence of a teenage usher armed with a flashlight would have stopped a lunatic with an AR-15 from reentering the theater.

Please explain to me how "DETECTION" of the lunatic would have prevented him from carrying out the massacre.

By the time anyone would have "detected" him, it would have been too late. He would have simply shot whichever theater employee was unlucky enough to have "detected" him, and continued on his merry way.

This was a massacre because the lunatic had a monopoly of force. He was armed and his victims weren't.

Oh and by the way...there was a "no guns allowed" sticker on the door of the theater. Apparently, the lunatic didnt see it.

Are you this dense? And you carry a weapon? Cmon bro, think it out.

P R E V E N T I O N .... re read what I wrote, and then think it out.

Peace

TOS