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a quick glance thru the local news agencies show these shooting REALLY happened. trying to use Orwellians 1984 styled Realspeak wont make them go away
guns
- Thread starter moreluck
- Start date
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i dont see the mentally deficient killing people with votes
And since the number proved incorrect, maybe, just maybe the guns free zone does have an effect. Think of it as the difference between premeditated murder and manslaughter. Columbine would be an example of premeditated, manslaughter would be heated arguments getting way out of control and resulting in a "crime of passion". While gun free zones won't stop the former, it probably greatly reduces instances of the latter.
soberups
Pees in the brown Koolaid
You were the one who compared the two, not me.
All I did was point out the logical inconsistency in your argument.
A quick google found that Vermont allows conceal carry at age 16...by definition a minor.
soberups
Pees in the brown Koolaid
I am not suggesting that we should allow anyone who wants to to carry guns in schools.
What I am suggesting...is that we have trained, armed responders in the schools instead of miles away in a patrol car.
Any teacher or staff member who wants to should be allowed to obtain a concealed handgun permit and to undergo training so that our kids have at least some measure of protection while they are in the classroom.
soberups
Pees in the brown Koolaid
And yet gun crimes are virtually unheard of there, and their violent crime rate is a fraction of Chicago's...a city with a virtual ban on legal gun ownership.
How strange.
soberups
Pees in the brown Koolaid
Self defense is a fundamental human right.
Guns are merely a tool with which to exercise that right.
soberups
Pees in the brown Koolaid
Good for them.
A black man who lived in Alabama in 1960 had the right to vote according to the 15th Amendment of the Constitution. However...he was totally prevented from exercising that right by poll taxes, literacy tests, and other "reasonable, common sense" restrictions that were put in place by whites with the specific intention of disenfranchising blacks.
Law abiding people in cities like Chicago and Washington DC have faces similar "reasonable, common sense" obstacles when trying to exercise their 2nd Amendment rights. It took a Supreme Court ruling to force Chicago and Washington DC to allow their residents to keep handguns in their own homes for protection, a right that is still restricted by odious and expensive licensing requirements.
Vermont = Chicago...how strange. I bet I'd never mistake Vermont for Chicago.
MAKAVELI
Well-Known Member
The population in the whole state of Vermont doesn't equal Chicago's population and he wants to compare the two? Anyone with common sense would understand the correlation between crime/violence and population/density.
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No, what is strange is comparing Apples and Oranges and trying to act like you have valid point.
The population of Chicago is 2,695,5989 (http://suburbanstats.org/population/illinois/how-many-people-live-in-chicago) and the population of the entire state of Vermont is 625,741 (http://suburbanstats.org/population/how-many-people-live-in-vermont)
Based on populations ,as well as size Vermont is 9,614 sq m compared to Chicago being 234 sq miles it's not strange at all that Chicago should have much more gun crime.
and yes, Gun Laws are very strict in Chicago as the right loves to point out. What isnt pointed out is that many many of the guns in Chicago are brought into the city from states with low to no gun laws such as Georgia(surpirse surprise)
http://www.cityofchicago.org/conten...ess Releases/2014/May/05.27.14TracingGuns.pdf
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
Fair enough--- how 'bout we compare Chicago and NYC? Crime, especially gun related, is down considerably in NYC.
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Here is an article regarding the smuggling of weapons from Georgia to NYC and the deaths that occur from it
Death rides the Iron Pipeline
Georgia's lax gun laws help criminals here kill
Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/death-rides-iron-pipeline-article-1.1801004#ixzz34eUmmwYk
here are some excerpts from the article
Last month, Georgia passed what is being called a “guns everywhere” bill that makes it even harder to keep firearms out of the hands of dangerous people — going so far as to repeal the system that had let the state’s licensing department pull licenses from rogue dealers who had been found guilty of criminal or fraudulent activity.
And that was just the latest in Georgia gun laws. The state has no criminal penalties for straw purchasers who buy firearms for those banned from doing so themselves. It doesn’t require background checks for people purchasing guns from unlicensed dealers, including at gun shows and online. It doesn’t even require gun owners to file a police report if their guns are lost or stolen.
Laws like these have made the state a favorite point of purchase for gun traffickers, with guns sold in Georgia ending up used in crimes elsewhere at more than twice the national average.
Georgians also suffer as a result of their laws. The state gun murder rate is 27% higher than the national average. Women there are shot to death by intimate partners 52% more often than the national average, and 97% more often than in states that require a background check for handgun sales.
Something needs to be done to curb gun violence, and background check legislation is the top priority. We won’t continue to wait for legislators in Washington — we are passing legislation in states across the country that will make it harder for dangerous people to get their hands on guns.
Currently, 16 states require background checks — and these laws make a difference. In Colorado alone, the new background check law has stopped 160 people banned from buying a gun from getting their hands on one. Other states need to follow suit.
Georgia is not the only feeder state of illegal guns. Guns from Indiana and Mississippi travel into Chicago, while Virginia and the Carolinas also feed guns here.
Just last August, the NYPD announced the largest gun-trafficking takedown in its history when more than 250 guns from North and South Carolina were seized after arriving in New York City. Like Georgia, these states are not doing their part to make it more difficult for criminals to get their hands on guns.
New York is doing its part. Strong laws requiring background checks for all sales, along with proactive policing and tough sentencing guidelines for illegal gun possession, have made it incredibly difficult for criminals to buy guns here. And as a result, shootings and murders-by-gun have reached record lows.
But even more New Yorkers could be spared from injury or death with stronger laws in other jurisdictions. When it comes to relations between states, strong background check laws make good neighbors.
Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/death-rides-iron-pipeline-article-1.1801004#ixzz34eVGPIII
Death rides the Iron Pipeline
Georgia's lax gun laws help criminals here kill
Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/death-rides-iron-pipeline-article-1.1801004#ixzz34eUmmwYk
here are some excerpts from the article
Last month, Georgia passed what is being called a “guns everywhere” bill that makes it even harder to keep firearms out of the hands of dangerous people — going so far as to repeal the system that had let the state’s licensing department pull licenses from rogue dealers who had been found guilty of criminal or fraudulent activity.
And that was just the latest in Georgia gun laws. The state has no criminal penalties for straw purchasers who buy firearms for those banned from doing so themselves. It doesn’t require background checks for people purchasing guns from unlicensed dealers, including at gun shows and online. It doesn’t even require gun owners to file a police report if their guns are lost or stolen.
Laws like these have made the state a favorite point of purchase for gun traffickers, with guns sold in Georgia ending up used in crimes elsewhere at more than twice the national average.
Georgians also suffer as a result of their laws. The state gun murder rate is 27% higher than the national average. Women there are shot to death by intimate partners 52% more often than the national average, and 97% more often than in states that require a background check for handgun sales.
Something needs to be done to curb gun violence, and background check legislation is the top priority. We won’t continue to wait for legislators in Washington — we are passing legislation in states across the country that will make it harder for dangerous people to get their hands on guns.
Currently, 16 states require background checks — and these laws make a difference. In Colorado alone, the new background check law has stopped 160 people banned from buying a gun from getting their hands on one. Other states need to follow suit.
Georgia is not the only feeder state of illegal guns. Guns from Indiana and Mississippi travel into Chicago, while Virginia and the Carolinas also feed guns here.
Just last August, the NYPD announced the largest gun-trafficking takedown in its history when more than 250 guns from North and South Carolina were seized after arriving in New York City. Like Georgia, these states are not doing their part to make it more difficult for criminals to get their hands on guns.
New York is doing its part. Strong laws requiring background checks for all sales, along with proactive policing and tough sentencing guidelines for illegal gun possession, have made it incredibly difficult for criminals to buy guns here. And as a result, shootings and murders-by-gun have reached record lows.
But even more New Yorkers could be spared from injury or death with stronger laws in other jurisdictions. When it comes to relations between states, strong background check laws make good neighbors.
Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/death-rides-iron-pipeline-article-1.1801004#ixzz34eVGPIII
oldngray
nowhere special
NYC was down but is creeping back up since they quit stop and frisk. And since almost all guns are illegal there there would be little to no gun violence if the people just obeyed all of those laws that were passed.
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that is because NYC is cracking down on the smuggling of guns from the south
http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/death-rides-iron-pipeline-article-1.1801004
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stop while you are behind,really.
you keep trying to compare the two situations and while you gave us all a very good laugh to start off with it's now becoming both sad and on the verge of insulting those who were killed demanding equality,who had crosses burned in their yards,whose houses were firebombed,who had dogs turned on them by the police when they assembled peacefully,and who had a government at every turn denying them Equal Rights. when this stuff starts happening to the Open Carry people, maybe you'll have a point
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yep the biggest city in Vermont is Burlington with a population of 42,000.
because of lax gun laws?
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
Burlington is a very liberal and progressive city. Gun violence is extremely rare.
Vermont is having a very hard time dealing with heroin addiction.
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