BrownBrokeDown
Well-Known Member
but that is the thing. A lot of the far left that is pushing for legislation don't differentiate between handguns, assault rifles, hunting rifles, shotguns, etc.
guns
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I can agree with that and I think we can agree that the far right (one noteable outspoken member of this forum is a good example of this type ) is pushing for unlimited open carry,all weapons anywhere. I would hope an agreement could be made in the middle.
soberups
Pees in the brown Koolaid
If you are referring to me, you are incorrect. I an not an advocate of open carry, I think in most circumstances it is rude and inappopriate and counterproductive in terms of making a political statement. I believe that concealed handgun licenses should be "shall issue" to persons who have passed a thorough background check and gotten aporopriate training, and I believe they should be valid in all 50 states. Self defense is a funamental human right.
soberups
Pees in the brown Koolaid
I have open carried twice, both times it was during hunting season in a small rural town where the sight of people carrying guns was completely ordinary. No one said a word or raised an eyebrow, it was a situation where I had walked into town after hunting and had no vehicle to store my rifle in so I carried it on my back. No big deal.
I don't think he was referring to you, but if he was I would disagree with him. But I still struggle to understand your reasoning. If self defense is a fundamental human right, then why should any restriction be put on owning and using a gun. I have a past that says I'm unstable and at times clinically depressed. How does that negate my fundamental right to self defense or make that right any less applicable than that of model citizens?
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As shocking as this may seem to the Republican Right, most Liberals do not want to ban guns. We just want people to be more sensible about them. I do not want to run into someone with an assault rifle in their hand in an aisle at Target. If you are so fearful of the world beyond your front door that you feel the need to be armed at all times, then you don't need guns. You need therapy
Just because we don't want to be denied the right to protect ourselves doesn't mean we have fantasies about being Dirty Harry. We simply don't want to be a helpless victim. To give up out right to be armed is like giving up the right to have union representation. Neither is very smart.
Kmart sux. So does Walmart. And Orion.
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I majored in European History in college and the vast overwhelming contents in this video are simply wrong or have been manipulated . I have no desire to argue point by point on the video,but I am amused at how it lists known "Evil Empires" as the main supporters of gun control.
Ok just for fun,I'm a history nerd and cant help myself-The Weimar Republic (this post WW1 government preceded Hitlers Takeover) had much stricter gun laws than Hitlers government in that separate papers were required to own,sell or carry a weapon,and ALL weapons had to be registered with the state
in 1938 Hitler signed a sweeping law called the Nazi Weapon Act that deregulated gun ownership, and the purchasing and selling of both guns and ammunition. Party Members were exempt from any restrictions whatsoever regarding gun ownership and the legal age to buy weapons in the Thrid Reich was lowered from 20 to 18( Guns and Marksmanship have been as big,if not a bigger part of German Culture as the USA's)
This law forbade Jews,Communists,Freemasons and other "Enemies of the State" to own,purchase or carry weapons but for the average German there simply was NO gun control. Rather, children in the Hitler Jugend(Hitler Youth) were raised to shoot weapons and to be excellent marksmen so that when they reached 20 and were inducted into the Army they would have a familiarity with weapons.
try again!!
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like i said before if you are so terrified that you cant leave your house without your gun then you dont need a gun you need therapy
MAKAVELI
Well-Known Member
I hear the Bundy ranch has therapists onsite.
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do you REALLY want to bring those people into this discussion? I fail to see how mentioning those people would strenghten your positionI hear the Bundy ranch has therapists onsite.
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MAKAVELI
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The Bundys and their supporters fit the description of gun nuts to a t.
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ahhhhhhhhh ok gotcha. I couldnt agree more.
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It amuses me that the vaunted Republican Ronald Regan very much supported gun control. here are a few of his quotes:
This is a matter of vital importance to the public safety ... While we recognize that assault-weapon legislation will not stop all assault-weapon crime, statistics prove that we can dry up the supply of these guns, making them less accessible to criminals.”
--Ronald Reagan, in a May 3, 1994 letter to the U.S. House of Representatives, which was also signed by Jimmy Carter and Gerald Ford.
“I do not believe in taking away the right of the citizen for sporting, for hunting and so forth, or for home defense. But I do believe that an AK-47, a machine gun, is not a sporting weapon or needed for defense of a home.”
--Ronald Reagan, in a speech at his 78th birthday celebration in Los Angeles on February 6, 1989.
“Certain forms of ammunition have no legitimate sporting, recreational, or self-defense use and thus should be prohibited.”
--Ronald Reagan, in an August 28, 1986 signing statement on a bill that banned the production and importation of armor-piercing bullets.
“With the right to bear arms comes a great responsibility to use caution and common sense on handgun purchases.”
--Ronald Reagan, speech at George Washington University in a on March 29, 1991.
“Every year, an average of 9,200 Americans are murdered by handguns, according to Department of Justice statistics. This does not include suicides or the tens of thousands of robberies, rapes and assaults committed with handguns. This level of violence must be stopped.”
--Ronald Reagan, in a March 29, 1991 New York Times op-ed in support of the Brady Bill.
“I think maybe there could be some restrictions that there had to be a certain amount of training taken.”
--Ronald Reagan, in a press conference in Toronto on June 21, 1988, suggesting that prospective gun owners should have to receive training before purchasing a firearm.
“Well, I think there has to be some (gun) control.”
--Ronald Reagan, during a question-and-answer session with high-school students on November 14, 1988.
This is a matter of vital importance to the public safety ... While we recognize that assault-weapon legislation will not stop all assault-weapon crime, statistics prove that we can dry up the supply of these guns, making them less accessible to criminals.”
--Ronald Reagan, in a May 3, 1994 letter to the U.S. House of Representatives, which was also signed by Jimmy Carter and Gerald Ford.
“I do not believe in taking away the right of the citizen for sporting, for hunting and so forth, or for home defense. But I do believe that an AK-47, a machine gun, is not a sporting weapon or needed for defense of a home.”
--Ronald Reagan, in a speech at his 78th birthday celebration in Los Angeles on February 6, 1989.
“Certain forms of ammunition have no legitimate sporting, recreational, or self-defense use and thus should be prohibited.”
--Ronald Reagan, in an August 28, 1986 signing statement on a bill that banned the production and importation of armor-piercing bullets.
“With the right to bear arms comes a great responsibility to use caution and common sense on handgun purchases.”
--Ronald Reagan, speech at George Washington University in a on March 29, 1991.
“Every year, an average of 9,200 Americans are murdered by handguns, according to Department of Justice statistics. This does not include suicides or the tens of thousands of robberies, rapes and assaults committed with handguns. This level of violence must be stopped.”
--Ronald Reagan, in a March 29, 1991 New York Times op-ed in support of the Brady Bill.
“I think maybe there could be some restrictions that there had to be a certain amount of training taken.”
--Ronald Reagan, in a press conference in Toronto on June 21, 1988, suggesting that prospective gun owners should have to receive training before purchasing a firearm.
“Well, I think there has to be some (gun) control.”
--Ronald Reagan, during a question-and-answer session with high-school students on November 14, 1988.
Babagounj
Strength through joy
Operation Choke Point is an ongoing initiative of the United States Department of Justice that was announced in 2013 , which is investigating banks in the United States and the business they do with payment processors, payday lenders, and other companies believed to be at higher risk for fraud .
Including ammunition and Firearm sales .
This operation is controversial for the potential threat to due process; the government is pressuring the financial industry to cut off the companies' access to banking services, without first having shown that the targeted companies are violating the law.
So obuma found a way to get the guns .
Including ammunition and Firearm sales .
This operation is controversial for the potential threat to due process; the government is pressuring the financial industry to cut off the companies' access to banking services, without first having shown that the targeted companies are violating the law.
So obuma found a way to get the guns .
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It's amusing the Republican and NRA supported Gun Control when the Black Folk were carrying weapons
http://www.theroot.com/articles/pol...thers_and_gun_control_the_nras_flip_flop.html
Fear of a Black Gun Owner
It may seem hard to believe, but the modern-day gun-rights debate was born from the civil rights era and inspired by the Black Panthers. Equally surprising is that the National Rifle Association -- now an aggressive lobbying arm for gun manufacturers -- actually once supported, and helped write, federal gun-control laws.
In light of the Newtown, Conn., school massacre that claimed the lives of 20 children as well as escalating violence in cities like Chicago, which saw 500 homicides in 2012 alone, President Barack Obama recently unveiled his plan for stricter gun control. The proposal calls for a universal background check and a ban on assault-style weapons and high-capacity magazines, along with 23 executive orders. But these efforts -- no matter how reasonable -- are not without their critics.
In a statement released last week, the NRA expressed its disappointment that "the task force spent most of its time on proposed restrictions on lawful firearm owners." Rep. Steve Stockman (R-Texas) went so far as to threaten impeachment if President Obama used executive action. The conservative entertainment complex -- from Fox News and the Drudge Report, which likened gun control to Nazi Germany, to talk-radio host Alex Jones, who invoked the Tea Party insurrection of 1773 -- employs propaganda tactics to convince Americans that Obama wants to take away their guns. Nothing could be further from the truth, and the history of this debate is a curious one.
It is ironic that the modern-day argument for citizens to arm themselves against unwarranted government oppression -- dominated, as it is, by angry white men -- has its roots in the foundation of the 1960s Black Panther movement. Huey Newton and Bobby Seale became inspired by Malcolm X's admonishment that because government was "either unable or unwilling to protect the lives and property" of African Americans, they ought to defend themselves "by any means necessary."
UCLA law professor Adam Winkler explores this history in his 2011 book, Gunfight: The Battle Over the Right to Bear Arms in America. "Like many young African Americans, Newton and Seale were frustrated with the failed promise of the civil-rights movement," Winkler writes. In their opinion, "the only tangible outcome of the civil-rights movement had been more violence and oppression, much of it committed by the very entity meant to protect the public: the police." Winkler goes on to say, "Malcolm X and the Panthers described their right to use guns in self-defense in constitutional terms." Guns became central to the Panthers' identity, as they taught their early recruits that "the gun is the only thing that will free us -- gain us our liberation."
The Panthers responded to racial violence by patrolling black neighborhoods brandishing guns -- in an effort to police the police. The fear of black people with firearms sent shockwaves across white communities, and conservative lawmakers immediately responded with gun-control legislation.
Then Gov. Ronald Reagan, now lauded as the patron saint of modern conservatism, told reporters in California that he saw "no reason why on the street today a citizen should be carrying loaded weapons." Reagan claimed that the Mulford Act, as it became known, "would work no hardship on the honest citizen." The NRA actually helped craft similar legislation in states across the country. Fast-forward to 2013, and it is a white-male dominated NRA, largely made up of Southern conservatives and gun owners from the Midwest and Southwestern states, that argues "do not tread on me" in the gun debate.
The gun-rights movement has been co-opted in the post-civil rights era. Loud voices both inside and outside the NRA use the claxons of government tyranny and fear of supposed "street thugs" to justify deregulation. The Second Amendment text that calls for a "well-regulated militia" is often ignored in favor of the ambiguous phrase, "the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."
The framers never could have imagined the sophisticated artillery available in 21st-century America, yet despite military-style assault weapons being used by the likes of Jared Loughner in Tuscon, Ariz.; James Holmes in Aurora, Colo.; or Adam Lanza in Newtown, Conn., the gun lobby and their most ardent supporters remain obstinate.
It seems the arguments and the players have been reversed. At its founding in 1871, the NRA was an organization dedicated to promoting marksmanship, firearms-safety education and shooting for recreation. Today it promotes utter irresponsibility and unfettered access to deadly weapons.
http://www.theroot.com/articles/pol...thers_and_gun_control_the_nras_flip_flop.html
Fear of a Black Gun Owner
It may seem hard to believe, but the modern-day gun-rights debate was born from the civil rights era and inspired by the Black Panthers. Equally surprising is that the National Rifle Association -- now an aggressive lobbying arm for gun manufacturers -- actually once supported, and helped write, federal gun-control laws.
In light of the Newtown, Conn., school massacre that claimed the lives of 20 children as well as escalating violence in cities like Chicago, which saw 500 homicides in 2012 alone, President Barack Obama recently unveiled his plan for stricter gun control. The proposal calls for a universal background check and a ban on assault-style weapons and high-capacity magazines, along with 23 executive orders. But these efforts -- no matter how reasonable -- are not without their critics.
In a statement released last week, the NRA expressed its disappointment that "the task force spent most of its time on proposed restrictions on lawful firearm owners." Rep. Steve Stockman (R-Texas) went so far as to threaten impeachment if President Obama used executive action. The conservative entertainment complex -- from Fox News and the Drudge Report, which likened gun control to Nazi Germany, to talk-radio host Alex Jones, who invoked the Tea Party insurrection of 1773 -- employs propaganda tactics to convince Americans that Obama wants to take away their guns. Nothing could be further from the truth, and the history of this debate is a curious one.
It is ironic that the modern-day argument for citizens to arm themselves against unwarranted government oppression -- dominated, as it is, by angry white men -- has its roots in the foundation of the 1960s Black Panther movement. Huey Newton and Bobby Seale became inspired by Malcolm X's admonishment that because government was "either unable or unwilling to protect the lives and property" of African Americans, they ought to defend themselves "by any means necessary."
UCLA law professor Adam Winkler explores this history in his 2011 book, Gunfight: The Battle Over the Right to Bear Arms in America. "Like many young African Americans, Newton and Seale were frustrated with the failed promise of the civil-rights movement," Winkler writes. In their opinion, "the only tangible outcome of the civil-rights movement had been more violence and oppression, much of it committed by the very entity meant to protect the public: the police." Winkler goes on to say, "Malcolm X and the Panthers described their right to use guns in self-defense in constitutional terms." Guns became central to the Panthers' identity, as they taught their early recruits that "the gun is the only thing that will free us -- gain us our liberation."
The Panthers responded to racial violence by patrolling black neighborhoods brandishing guns -- in an effort to police the police. The fear of black people with firearms sent shockwaves across white communities, and conservative lawmakers immediately responded with gun-control legislation.
Then Gov. Ronald Reagan, now lauded as the patron saint of modern conservatism, told reporters in California that he saw "no reason why on the street today a citizen should be carrying loaded weapons." Reagan claimed that the Mulford Act, as it became known, "would work no hardship on the honest citizen." The NRA actually helped craft similar legislation in states across the country. Fast-forward to 2013, and it is a white-male dominated NRA, largely made up of Southern conservatives and gun owners from the Midwest and Southwestern states, that argues "do not tread on me" in the gun debate.
The gun-rights movement has been co-opted in the post-civil rights era. Loud voices both inside and outside the NRA use the claxons of government tyranny and fear of supposed "street thugs" to justify deregulation. The Second Amendment text that calls for a "well-regulated militia" is often ignored in favor of the ambiguous phrase, "the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."
The framers never could have imagined the sophisticated artillery available in 21st-century America, yet despite military-style assault weapons being used by the likes of Jared Loughner in Tuscon, Ariz.; James Holmes in Aurora, Colo.; or Adam Lanza in Newtown, Conn., the gun lobby and their most ardent supporters remain obstinate.
It seems the arguments and the players have been reversed. At its founding in 1871, the NRA was an organization dedicated to promoting marksmanship, firearms-safety education and shooting for recreation. Today it promotes utter irresponsibility and unfettered access to deadly weapons.
soberups
Pees in the brown Koolaid
I keep a fire extinguisher and a first aid kit in my car does that mean Im paranoid and need therapy? Or does it mean I merely believe in self-reliance and taking prudent precautions?
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