guns

[The Other Side]

Yes, it is a horrible tragedy.

It would be nice if there were some quick fix, some easy law that we could pass that would prevent such tragedies from happening.

Unfortunately, there isn't one.

Right, so let every crazy white man with a gun and family problems own one, so he can settle his divorce, child support, child custody and property separation issues with his beloved gun.

TOS.

 

[The Other Side]

Just another white man with a gun, using it on his own family because the law says he can have a gun and Sober says there is nothing that can be done to stop crimes like this, without taking "his" beloved steel courage away from him as well.

http://news.yahoo.com/girl-whose-6-family-members-were-killed-recovering-201526705.html

 

[Nimnim]

I haven't seen any reports of where he obtained the gun so it's hard to say, but there are some facts that certainly raise some questions. I honestly doubt he had a gun legally after all of this, but if he did, it's a complete failure of common sense gun laws:

He has a history of domestic abuse. The ex-wife, the original target, has a restraining order that was violated the day it was issued (the charge was dismissed).

He has a history of stealing firearms. His own mother reported him for stealing her husband's firearms in a previous domestic violence dispute. (the guns were confiscated by San Diego county sheriff department with no arrest wtf?)

He has a history of mental illness. His own brother reported him to the police for a mental welfare check when he was going through his divorce last year, but later called it off.

As recently as July 2nd, he tied his mother to a chair and choked her. A restraining order was issued but AGAIN no arrest was made... wtf?

This guy should have been in jail, not on the streets with a gun.

Your last statement sums it up nicely. Multiple laws were broken and not enforced properly, quite possibly letting the tragedy happen.

Adding a new law that would be broken and not enforced properly won't prevent these things.

 

[bbsam]

Your last statement sums it up nicely. Multiple laws were broken and not enforced properly, quite possibly letting the tragedy happen.

Adding a new law that would be broken and not enforced properly won't prevent these things.

but we are a nation that doesn't want to pay for law enforcement.

 

[soberups]

but we are a nation that doesn't want to pay for law enforcement.

A few hours south of me, in Josephine County OR, the sheriffs office no longer has any deputies on patrol after 5:00 PM due to budget cuts.

If you live in a community like Cave Junction or O'Brien, the response time to a 911 call for police assistance is often measured in hours, depending upon how far away the nearest State Police patrol happens to be. There is no city police force and the sheriffs office normally has only one deputy on patrol, during daytime hours only, to patrol 1,642 square miles of country.

If you are a woman filling out a restraining order against an abusive partner in Josephine County, the sheriff will advise you up front that he lacks the manpower to enforce or, in many cases, even serve the order and that your best course of action for your own safety is to "move to an area where adequate law enforcement resources are available." This is a direct quote from the sheriff in a recent news article.

The reality is that the only thing keeping the good people of Josephine County safe at this point.... is the Second Amendment.

 

[bbsam]

A few hours south of me, in Josephine County OR, the sheriffs office no longer has any deputies on patrol after 5:00 PM due to budget cuts.

If you live in a community like Cave Junction or O'Brien, the response time to a 911 call for police assistance is often measured in hours, depending upon how far away the nearest State Police patrol happens to be. There is no city police force and the sheriffs office normally has only one deputy on patrol, during daytime hours only, to patrol 1,642 square miles of country.

If you are a woman filling out a restraining order against an abusive partner in Josephine County, the sheriff will advise you up front that he lacks the manpower to enforce or, in many cases, even serve the order and that your best course of action for your own safety is to "move to an area where adequate law enforcement resources are available." This is a direct quote from the sheriff in a recent news article.

The reality is that the only thing keeping the good people of Josephine County safe at this point.... is the Second Amendment.

By that logic, the only thing keeping people without guns safe is that criminals are so full of fear that they will "break into the wrong house". I don't believe that and I doubt you do either.

 

[soberups]

By that logic, the only thing keeping people without guns safe is that criminals are so full of fear that they will "break into the wrong house". I don't believe that and I doubt you do either.

There is a reason that the home invasion rate is far higher in England than it is in the United States.

 

[bbsam]

There is a reason that the home invasion rate is far higher in England than it is in the United States.

could be a number of reasons, don't you think? In the US a lot of charges could be trespass, criminal trespass, unlawful entry, etc. They all mean the same basically.

 

[728ups]

There is a reason that the home invasion rate is far higher in England than it is in the United States.

Firstly mate it's The United Kingdom
Secondly there is no Legal Definition of Home invasion in the United Kingdom.
However "burglary" in both countries is defined in a similar way as unauthorised entry to a property with the intent to commit a felony/crime, as are "homicide/murder" and "rape". So we could look at all three....

There were about 630K burglaries in the UK in 2012 (against 26M households) (ONS)

In the US, the FBI report lists 2.2M in 2009 (out of 114M households) (FBI).

Comparative rates: UK 1 per 41 households. USA 1 per 51 households. (USA dropped slightly overall since)

So you are around 20% more likely to be burgled in the UK, but hardly a massive difference.

However, how many burglaries are related to violent intent? "Assault" is very hard to compare as definitions vary (injury is not always a feature) but we do have stats for murders and rapes.

Murder UK total is 570 in 2012. (ONS)

Murder US total was 13,000 in 2009 (FBI)

Per 100K residents, that's 4 in the US vs. 0.9, so nearly 5X worse in the US. Again, the US rate dropped a few % but its still over 4.5X as high.

Similarly reported rape statistics per 100k for US and UK (2010) are 29 vs 28. Again no real difference (source UN).

So it does not seem very likely that "home invasions" where there is violent intent are higher in the UK. In fact I can't find any statistic from a reliable source (UK government, FBI etc) that would indicate anything of this nature.

So you are only slightly more likely to be burgled, but this does not seem to relate in any way to the chances that you will be murdered or raped, and I would guess the same is true of violent assault.

 

[soberups]

could be a number of reasons, don't you think? In the US a lot of charges could be trespass, criminal trespass, unlawful entry, etc. They all mean the same basically.

In the United States, a person who forcibly enters an occupied dwelling with the intention of harming its occupants knows that there is a good chance they might get shot.

In England, they have no such fear.

Guns are an equalizer. They prevent the strong from dominating the weak or elderly. A 70 year old woman has absolutely no chance of winning a fist fight with a 22 year old man, but put a gun in her hand and she is now at absolute parity with her attacker even if he is armed. In areas where law enforcement is minimal to non existent and response times to a 911 call might be measured in hours, effective self defense requires a gun. Its a basic fact of life and something that the Bloombergs and Feinsteins will never understand.

 

[728ups]

In the United States, a person who forcibly enters an occupied dwelling with the intention of harming its occupants knows that there is a good chance they might get shot.

In England, they have no such fear.

Guns are an equalizer. They prevent the strong from dominating the weak or elderly. A 70 year old woman has absolutely no chance of winning a fist fight with a 22 year old man, but put a gun in her hand and she is now at absolute parity with her attacker even if he is armed. In areas where law enforcement is minimal to non existent and response times to a 911 call might be measured in hours, effective self defense requires a gun. Its a basic fact of life and something that the Bloombergs and Feinsteins will never understand.

It's United Kingdom
and you should ask Cheryl to work the soft ware so this will auto play after all of your posts

 

[bbsam]

See 728's more detailed explanation above.

 

[bbsam]

See 728's more detailed explanation above.

As they say, the numbers don't lie.

 

[The Other Side]

In the United States, a person who forcibly enters an occupied dwelling with the intention of harming its occupants knows that there is a good chance they might get shot.

In England, they have no such fear.

Guns are an equalizer. They prevent the strong from dominating the weak or elderly. A 70 year old woman has absolutely no chance of winning a fist fight with a 22 year old man, but put a gun in her hand and she is now at absolute parity with her attacker even if he is armed. In areas where law enforcement is minimal to non existent and response times to a 911 call might be measured in hours, effective self defense requires a gun. Its a basic fact of life and something that the Bloombergs and Feinsteins will never understand.

Must be a horrible feeling having to live in such fear. Place yourself in harms way just to own a gun.

Sounds like poor planning.

TOS.

 

[The Other Side]

In the United States, a person who forcibly enters an occupied dwelling with the intention of harming its occupants knows that there is a good chance they might get shot.

In England, they have no such fear.

Guns are an equalizer. They prevent the strong from dominating the weak or elderly. A 70 year old woman has absolutely no chance of winning a fist fight with a 22 year old man, but put a gun in her hand and she is now at absolute parity with her attacker even if he is armed. In areas where law enforcement is minimal to non existent and response times to a 911 call might be measured in hours, effective self defense requires a gun. Its a basic fact of life and something that the Bloombergs and Feinsteins will never understand.

BY the way, still waiting for your proof , that your sentence as you posted it, exists in the second amendment without a comma.

Its your quote, now justify it.

TOS.

 

[wayfair]

but we are a nation that doesn't want to pay for law enforcement.

so you want to pay for more regulation knowing that there is no money to enforce it?
brilliant

especially in broke ass Illinois

 

[BigUnionGuy]

Self-defense is, quite simply, a fundamental human right.

Some people can't grasp the concept....

That, they are responsible for their own destiny.


The government has no legal obligation to protect individuals.

Nothing says "ghetto" more than a pile of high caliber ammo in a basement.

That is a Bloomberg/Feinstein talking point. (sounds threatening)


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caliber

Both of these rounds.... are the same "caliber". One projectile, just travels faster.

Search your numbers. They do lie. The statistics when correctly analyzed have never born out that conclusion.

Says who ??

yeah it's a bit different perspective when a face is put to people murdered in cold blood by a gun isnt it?

"Mexican authorities, acting on tips, on Thursday located his green Kawasaki motorcycle in a shallow grave in the state of Guerrero, along with the badly decomposed remains of a man in two plastic bags, said Darren Del Sardo, an attorney for Devert's mother."

http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/12/world/americas/missing-american-mexico/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

Here's another question...were the adult victims armed and able to defend themselves or the children?

No.

Or, did they subscribe to the Bloombergian theory of safety through unarmed helplessness?

That seems readily apparent.

And, how you wind up buried in (multiple) plastic bags.... in the desert of Mexico.

 

[MAKAVELI]

http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/12/world/americas/missing-american-mexico/index.html?hpt=hp_t2



No.



That seems readily apparent.

And, how you wind up buried in (multiple) plastic bags.... in the desert of Mexico.

By not using common sense. Just about anyone with half a brain would realize traveling through Mexico, especially this part, by motorcycle is risky and dangerous at best. Sorry to be so blunt, but if that was my son I would do anything I could to convince him not to do it.

 

[728ups]

Some people can't grasp the concept....

"Mexican authorities, acting on tips, on Thursday located his green Kawasaki motorcycle in a shallow grave in the state of Guerrero, along with the badly decomposed remains of a man in two plastic bags, said Darren Del Sardo, an attorney for Devert's mother."

http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/12/world/americas/missing-american-mexico/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

with all due respect,what does the story of a man(albeit a US citizen) being killed in Mexico have any bearing on Gun Deaths and Crime in the USA? If you are implying he should have been packing heat in Mexico,I'd like to ask how well it worked out for teh USMC Sgt arrested for driving across the border with guns in his truck?
http://www.cnn.com/2014/06/03/opinion/cevallos-marine-mexico-guns/

 

[wayfair]

with all due respect,what does the story of a man(albeit a US citizen) being killed in Mexico have any bearing on Gun Deaths and Crime in the USA? If you are implying he should have been packing heat in Mexico,I'd like to ask how well it worked out for teh USMC Sgt arrested for driving across the border with guns in his truck?
http://www.cnn.com/2014/06/03/opinion/cevallos-marine-mexico-guns/

at least their borders are enforcing it