I agree with alot of what you say. Its sad. I still believe its the way to go. Individual retirement. Brown what you don't realize is that the weekly contributions can't be touched. The 401k and IRA's can only be touched when you hit age 59 1/2. Again, the monies can't be touched. Now with a little education. My advice to you. When you hit age 59 1/2 don't take it out in a lump sum. Instead leave it in there so it can still collect earnings. What you do now is cut yourself a monthly check. $700, $800 or whatever. Remember, the higher the monthly amount the shorter the distance your money will last. Now if you were born before 1960 your S.S. will be kicking in at 62(early retirement). Brown, about the people needing someone to look out from them. Let them stay in the MEP. Why must I be forced to stay on the ship? Im for the Teamsters, but the pension sucks. Why can't I have what the mechanics have? Go ahead drivers go ask you mechanic what his retirement will be. Its just plan cruel. They will just keep raising the age. I'll be an out right crippled individual. Brown, the real question is can I count on the Teamsters for my retirement. I'll tell you this, when I hit 47 years of age I will have hit 25 years driving. Im leaving. I held up my part of the bargain. I pray the Teamsters will hold up to theirs. Joint 83, 73% funded, only 10% away from being underfunded and I still have 5 years to go. Yikes!
Is Central States pension fund ready to go under?
- Thread starter Bill
- Start date
I agree with alot of what you say. Its sad. I still believe its the way to go. Individual retirement. Brown what you don't realize is that the weekly contributions can't be touched. The 401k and IRA's can only be touched when you hit age 59 1/2. Again, the monies can't be touched. Now with a little education. My advice to you. When you hit age 59 1/2 don't take it out in a lump sum. Instead leave it in there so it can still collect earnings. What you do now is cut yourself a monthly check. $700, $800 or whatever. Remember, the higher the monthly amount the shorter the distance your money will last. Now if you were born before 1960 your S.S. will be kicking in at 62(early retirement). Brown, about the people needing someone to look out from them. Let them stay in the MEP. Why must I be forced to stay on the ship? Im for the Teamsters, but the pension sucks. Why can't I have what the mechanics have? Go ahead drivers go ask you mechanic what his retirement will be. Its just plan cruel. They will just keep raising the age. I'll be an out right crippled individual. Brown, the real question is can I count on the Teamsters for my retirement. I'll tell you this, when I hit 47 years of age I will have hit 25 years driving. Im leaving. I held up my part of the bargain. I pray the Teamsters will hold up to theirs. Joint 83, 73% funded, only 10% away from being underfunded and I still have 5 years to go. Yikes!
Spoken by somebody who apparently has nothing to lose. Please consider the people who are close to retirement and can not physically last 10 more years let alone 30. Starting from scratch is not an option.
Ok, right now in the CS plan your getting 40 cents to every dollar UPS puts in your behalf. Now in the Cut out the middle man Plan you would get the whole dollar. So, in doing this you have just acceralated your pension earnings. For every one year working under the cut middle man plan would equal 2 1/5 years under the Teamsters plan. Also lets say you started driving at 50 and only made it to 54. Well, under the Teamsters plan you would get 0, nada, nothing(not vested yet, 5 years remember it used to be 10, how cruel was that, Im sure they'll change it back to 10. LOL). Under my plan you will get those weekly contribution cks after your 40 day probation is up. Do the math. 4 yrs times I'll use 10 grand even though its more than that equals 40,000 dollars(no earnings added so it might be more). Now, you still have intill 59 1/2 to collect. So for those 5 years your money is multipling. Then if you have a 401k(gross contributions) another 40,000 dollars there, combined with the IRA(UPS weekly pension payments were made) you could have a very nice nest egg. Grand total of 80,000 dollars in 4 years. Thats with no earnings folks. Unbelievable!!! Teamsters plan will give you nothing............
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GuyinBrown
Blah
By the way... Founders Day has come and gone with no announcements of any "deal"....
1 rumor down, 999 to go!!
1 rumor down, 999 to go!!
18wheelbrownie
Well-Known Member
By the way... Founders Day has come and gone with no announcements of any "deal"....
1 rumor down, 999 to go!!
http://www.teamster.org/divisions/parcel/pdfs/UPSContractNews_070831.pdf
18wheelbrownie
Well-Known Member
By the way... Founders Day has come and gone with no announcements of any "deal"....
1 rumor down, 999 to go!!
can't wait to see what happens to our h&w
satellitedriver
Moderator
What do they mean by;
October 1 or We’re Done!
J
JonFrum
Guest
Central States Trust Agreement (Your Homework for Labor Day)
TRUST AGREEMENT CENTRAL STATES, SOUTHEAST AND SOUTHWEST AREAS PENSION FUND
AS AMENDED THROUGH MAY 31, 2007
(Exerpts. All emphasis added.)
ARTICLE III - CONTRIBUTIONS AND COLLECTIONS
Sec. 7. (b) An Employer’s obligation to contribute to the Fund will
immediately cease in the event the Union loses its status
as bargaining representative of the employee through an
NLRB election or valid disclaimer of interest by the
Union. In the event the Union loses its representative
status through an NLRB election, the duty to contribute
shall cease on the day the election results are certified
by the NLRB. This provision shall supersede any contrary
provision in any agreement, including any collective
bargaining agreement, participation agreement, this
Agreement and the certification clause of the Fund’s
billing forms.
ARTICLE IV - POWERS AND DUTIES OF TRUSTEES
Sec. 15. The Trustees shall be entitled to receive reasonable
compensation for services rendered, and the reimbursement of
expenses properly and actually incurred, in the performance of
their duties to the Fund; except that no Trustee who already
receives full-time pay from an Employer or an association of
Employers or from the Union shall receive compensation from the
Fund, except for reimbursement of expenses properly and actually
incurred.
Sec. 20. The Trustees are authorized to reject any collective
bargaining agreement, participation agreement and/or terminate the
participation of an Employer (and all contributions from the
Employer) whenever they determine either that the agreement is
unlawful and/or inconsistent with any rule or requirement for
participation by Employers in the Fund and/or that the Employer is
engaged in one or more practices or arrangements that threaten to
cause economic harm to, and/or impairment of the actuarial
soundness of, the Fund (including but not limited to any
arrangement in which the Employer is obligated to make
contributions to the Trust Fund on behalf of some but not all of
the Employer's bargaining unit employees, and any arrangement in
which the Employer is obligated to make contributions to the Trust
Fund at different contribution rates for different groups of the
Employer's bargaining unit employees).
ARTICLE VI - OPERATION OF BOARD OF TRUSTEES
Sec. 6. Expenses - All proper and necessary expenses incurred
by any former or incumbent Trustee, including costs of defense in
litigation arising out of the Trusteeship of this Fund, and also
including costs incurred by any former or incumbent Trustee in
providing testimony or information about administration of this
Fund in any investigation, trial or other proceeding, shall be paid
out of the Trust Fund, as a matter of right of any such former or
incumbent Trustee, to the extent permitted by applicable law. As
used in the preceding sentence, the term "costs" includes, but is
not limited to, reasonable attorneys' fees.
ARTICLE - AMENDMENT OF AGREEMENT
. . . the provisions of this Trust, among
which is to pay the largest benefits possible, which are consistent
with the number of participants becoming and likely to become
eligible for such payments, the amounts of funds which are
available and which will probably become available, and the
following of sound actuarial practice.
ARTICLE XIV - MISCELLANEOUS
Sec. 1. In no event shall Employers, directly or
indirectly, participate in the disposition of the Trust Fund or
receive any benefits from the Trust Fund.
Sec. 9. No person shall serve, or be permitted to serve, as
an administrator, fiduciary, officer, trustee, custodian, counsel,
agent, employee, adviser, provider of goods or services or
consultant of the Fund, or as its representative in any capacity,
or to serve in any capacity that involves decision making authority
or custody or control of the moneys, funds or assets of the Fund,
if such person has been convicted of: robbery, bribery, extortion,
embezzlement, fraud, grand larceny, burglary, arson, a felony
violation of Federal or State law involving substances defined in
section 802(6) of title 21 of the United States Code (hereinafter
referred to as the "Code"), murder, rape, kidnapping, perjury,
assault with intent to kill, any crime described in section
80a-9(a)(1) of title 15 of the Code, a violation of any provision
of the Employee Retirement Income Security Act of 1974, a violation
of section 186 of title 29 of the Code, a violation of chapter 63
of title 18 of the Code, a violation of sections 874, 1027, 1503,
1505, 1506, 1510, 1951 or 1954 of title 18 of the Code, a violation
of the Labor-Management Reporting and Disclosure Act of 1959, or
any felony involving abuse or misuse of such person's labor
organization or employee benefit plan position or employment; or
conspiracy to commit any such crimes; or attempt to commit any such
crimes, or a crime in which any of the foregoing crimes is an
element; or a misdemeanor involving a breach of fiduciary
responsibility. Upon conviction of any of the crimes described in
the preceding sentence, such person shall immediately be
disqualified from serving the Fund in any capacity described in the
preceding sentence, and any such service shall immediately be
terminated; provided that, upon final reversal of such conviction,
such person, unless otherwise ineligible, shall thereafter be
eligible to serve the Fund; and provided further that this
disqualification shall continue in effect until ten (10) years
after such conviction or after the end of imprisonment on such
conviction, whichever is the later, unless, prior to the end of
such ten-year period, in the case of a person so convicted or
imprisoned, (a) his citizenship rights, having been revoked as a
result of such conviction, have been fully restored, or (b) the
United States Parole Commission, pursuant to applicable law,
determines that such person's service would not be contrary to the
best interests of the Fund.
ARTICLE XV - BENEFICIAL RIGHTS
No Employer or Union, or Employees, shall have any right,
title or interest in or to the Trust Fund or any part thereof other
than vesting under the Pension Plan except in accordance with
applicable law. There shall be no pro rata or other distribution
of any of the assets of the Fund as a result of any Union, Employer
or group of Employees of Employers ceasing their participation in
this Fund for any purpose or reason, except as required by law.
TRUST AGREEMENT CENTRAL STATES, SOUTHEAST AND SOUTHWEST AREAS PENSION FUND
AS AMENDED THROUGH MAY 31, 2007
(Exerpts. All emphasis added.)
ARTICLE III - CONTRIBUTIONS AND COLLECTIONS
Sec. 7. (b) An Employer’s obligation to contribute to the Fund will
immediately cease in the event the Union loses its status
as bargaining representative of the employee through an
NLRB election or valid disclaimer of interest by the
Union. In the event the Union loses its representative
status through an NLRB election, the duty to contribute
shall cease on the day the election results are certified
by the NLRB. This provision shall supersede any contrary
provision in any agreement, including any collective
bargaining agreement, participation agreement, this
Agreement and the certification clause of the Fund’s
billing forms.
ARTICLE IV - POWERS AND DUTIES OF TRUSTEES
Sec. 15. The Trustees shall be entitled to receive reasonable
compensation for services rendered, and the reimbursement of
expenses properly and actually incurred, in the performance of
their duties to the Fund; except that no Trustee who already
receives full-time pay from an Employer or an association of
Employers or from the Union shall receive compensation from the
Fund, except for reimbursement of expenses properly and actually
incurred.
Sec. 20. The Trustees are authorized to reject any collective
bargaining agreement, participation agreement and/or terminate the
participation of an Employer (and all contributions from the
Employer) whenever they determine either that the agreement is
unlawful and/or inconsistent with any rule or requirement for
participation by Employers in the Fund and/or that the Employer is
engaged in one or more practices or arrangements that threaten to
cause economic harm to, and/or impairment of the actuarial
soundness of, the Fund (including but not limited to any
arrangement in which the Employer is obligated to make
contributions to the Trust Fund on behalf of some but not all of
the Employer's bargaining unit employees, and any arrangement in
which the Employer is obligated to make contributions to the Trust
Fund at different contribution rates for different groups of the
Employer's bargaining unit employees).
ARTICLE VI - OPERATION OF BOARD OF TRUSTEES
Sec. 6. Expenses - All proper and necessary expenses incurred
by any former or incumbent Trustee, including costs of defense in
litigation arising out of the Trusteeship of this Fund, and also
including costs incurred by any former or incumbent Trustee in
providing testimony or information about administration of this
Fund in any investigation, trial or other proceeding, shall be paid
out of the Trust Fund, as a matter of right of any such former or
incumbent Trustee, to the extent permitted by applicable law. As
used in the preceding sentence, the term "costs" includes, but is
not limited to, reasonable attorneys' fees.
ARTICLE - AMENDMENT OF AGREEMENT
. . . the provisions of this Trust, among
which is to pay the largest benefits possible, which are consistent
with the number of participants becoming and likely to become
eligible for such payments, the amounts of funds which are
available and which will probably become available, and the
following of sound actuarial practice.
ARTICLE XIV - MISCELLANEOUS
Sec. 1. In no event shall Employers, directly or
indirectly, participate in the disposition of the Trust Fund or
receive any benefits from the Trust Fund.
Sec. 9. No person shall serve, or be permitted to serve, as
an administrator, fiduciary, officer, trustee, custodian, counsel,
agent, employee, adviser, provider of goods or services or
consultant of the Fund, or as its representative in any capacity,
or to serve in any capacity that involves decision making authority
or custody or control of the moneys, funds or assets of the Fund,
if such person has been convicted of: robbery, bribery, extortion,
embezzlement, fraud, grand larceny, burglary, arson, a felony
violation of Federal or State law involving substances defined in
section 802(6) of title 21 of the United States Code (hereinafter
referred to as the "Code"), murder, rape, kidnapping, perjury,
assault with intent to kill, any crime described in section
80a-9(a)(1) of title 15 of the Code, a violation of any provision
of the Employee Retirement Income Security Act of 1974, a violation
of section 186 of title 29 of the Code, a violation of chapter 63
of title 18 of the Code, a violation of sections 874, 1027, 1503,
1505, 1506, 1510, 1951 or 1954 of title 18 of the Code, a violation
of the Labor-Management Reporting and Disclosure Act of 1959, or
any felony involving abuse or misuse of such person's labor
organization or employee benefit plan position or employment; or
conspiracy to commit any such crimes; or attempt to commit any such
crimes, or a crime in which any of the foregoing crimes is an
element; or a misdemeanor involving a breach of fiduciary
responsibility. Upon conviction of any of the crimes described in
the preceding sentence, such person shall immediately be
disqualified from serving the Fund in any capacity described in the
preceding sentence, and any such service shall immediately be
terminated; provided that, upon final reversal of such conviction,
such person, unless otherwise ineligible, shall thereafter be
eligible to serve the Fund; and provided further that this
disqualification shall continue in effect until ten (10) years
after such conviction or after the end of imprisonment on such
conviction, whichever is the later, unless, prior to the end of
such ten-year period, in the case of a person so convicted or
imprisoned, (a) his citizenship rights, having been revoked as a
result of such conviction, have been fully restored, or (b) the
United States Parole Commission, pursuant to applicable law,
determines that such person's service would not be contrary to the
best interests of the Fund.
ARTICLE XV - BENEFICIAL RIGHTS
No Employer or Union, or Employees, shall have any right,
title or interest in or to the Trust Fund or any part thereof other
than vesting under the Pension Plan except in accordance with
applicable law. There shall be no pro rata or other distribution
of any of the assets of the Fund as a result of any Union, Employer
or group of Employees of Employers ceasing their participation in
this Fund for any purpose or reason, except as required by law.
705red
Browncafe Steward
It means that if they cant get it hammered out by oct 1st we done dealing on an early agreement and will see them next year at normal negiotations.
J
JonFrum
Guest
Central States Participation Agreement (More Labor Day Homework)
PARTICIPATION AGREEMENT CENTRAL STATES, SOUTHEAST AND SOUTHWEST AREAS PENSION FUND/HEALTH AND WELFARE FUND
1. The Union and Employer agree to be bound by the Trust Agreement(s) of the Pension Fund and/or the Health and Welfare Fund and all amendments subsequently adopted as well as all rules and regulations presently in effect or subsequently adopted by the Trustees of the Fund(s) and accept the respective Employer and Employee Trustees and their successors.
5. This Agreement and the obligation to pay contributions to the Fund(s) will continue after the termination of a collective bargaining agreement except no contributions shall be due during a strike unless the Union and the Employer mutually agree in writing otherwise. This Agreement and the Employer's obligation to pay contributions shall not terminate until a) the Trustees decide to terminate the participation of the Employer and provide written notice of their decision to the Employer specifying the date of termination of participation or b) the Employer is no longer obligated by a contract or statute to contribute to the Fund(s) and the Fund(s) have received a written notice directed to the Fund(s)' Contracts Department at the address specified above sent by certified mail with return receipt requested which describes the reason why the Employer is no longer obligated to contribute or c) the date the NLRB certifies the result of an election that terminates the Union’s representative status or d) the date the Union’s representative status terminates through a valid disclaimer of interest. In the event the Employer participates in both the Pension Fund and the Health and Welfare Fund and the termination referred to in a) or b) relates to only one Fund, then this Agreement shall remain in effect with respect to the other Fund. In the event an NLRB election or disclaimer of interest referred to in c) or d) relates to only part of the bargaining unit, this Agreement shall remain in effect with respect to the remainder of the bargaining unit.
PARTICIPATION AGREEMENT CENTRAL STATES, SOUTHEAST AND SOUTHWEST AREAS PENSION FUND/HEALTH AND WELFARE FUND
1. The Union and Employer agree to be bound by the Trust Agreement(s) of the Pension Fund and/or the Health and Welfare Fund and all amendments subsequently adopted as well as all rules and regulations presently in effect or subsequently adopted by the Trustees of the Fund(s) and accept the respective Employer and Employee Trustees and their successors.
5. This Agreement and the obligation to pay contributions to the Fund(s) will continue after the termination of a collective bargaining agreement except no contributions shall be due during a strike unless the Union and the Employer mutually agree in writing otherwise. This Agreement and the Employer's obligation to pay contributions shall not terminate until a) the Trustees decide to terminate the participation of the Employer and provide written notice of their decision to the Employer specifying the date of termination of participation or b) the Employer is no longer obligated by a contract or statute to contribute to the Fund(s) and the Fund(s) have received a written notice directed to the Fund(s)' Contracts Department at the address specified above sent by certified mail with return receipt requested which describes the reason why the Employer is no longer obligated to contribute or c) the date the NLRB certifies the result of an election that terminates the Union’s representative status or d) the date the Union’s representative status terminates through a valid disclaimer of interest. In the event the Employer participates in both the Pension Fund and the Health and Welfare Fund and the termination referred to in a) or b) relates to only one Fund, then this Agreement shall remain in effect with respect to the other Fund. In the event an NLRB election or disclaimer of interest referred to in c) or d) relates to only part of the bargaining unit, this Agreement shall remain in effect with respect to the remainder of the bargaining unit.
JonFrum; what are you getting at with these articles from the Central States trust agreement?
With just skimming the legal jargon are you claiming that the Trustees violated ERISA standards and or involved in criminal behavior?
I find that hard to believe considering that the trust has been under the watchful eye of the feds for the last 25 or so years.
Please define your post....
1
With just skimming the legal jargon are you claiming that the Trustees violated ERISA standards and or involved in criminal behavior?
I find that hard to believe considering that the trust has been under the watchful eye of the feds for the last 25 or so years.
Please define your post....
1
J
JonFrum
Guest
JonFrum; what are you getting at with these articles from the Central States trust agreement?
With just skimming the legal jargon are you claiming that the Trustees violated ERISA standards and or involved in criminal behavior?
I find that hard to believe considering that the trust has been under the watchful eye of the feds for the last 25 or so years.
Please define your post....
Cezanne,
There is a lot of misinformation and speculation posted about pensions on this site, even at this late date. My view is everyone should first read all the official information on the plan website, and only then start posting and speculating afterward. This would save all of us a great deal of time. There would still be differences of opinion, but at least the basic facts would be commonly known.
Most people won't look up the plan documents on their own, so I provide a link. Some people still won't click on the link, so I provide the text. Some people still will not read the text, so I provide exerpts. Some people still won't read the exerpts, so I highlight a few key sentences. Just trying to make it as easy as possible. And if anyone does actually go and read the full text, well, it's difficult language, so it doesn't hurt to have read my exerpts first.
The IBT has just announced that they intend to cooperate with UPS in setting up a new pension plan for Central States people, so I think it's time to get serious. Eventually you'll be asked to approve that new plan. UPS and the Teamsters will combine their resources to sell you on the new plan. The new plan will be just one feature of the overall Central States Supplement that you will vote on. This is Labor Day Weekend so everyone may have a little extra time to do some reading.
As for the plan documents, they speak for themselves. They say what they say. Everyone who has made it this far in this thread should have a working knowledge of them. They also provide a guide to understanding the new plan, since the new plan will have similar plan documents of its own.
I clearly get where you are going on this, truth is that speculation and heresay is all we are going to get with nut and bolts of the current negotiations. Liability is a BIG issue with both sides, I still remember that when Central States brought it to our attention that they were going to cut benefts they issued orders for the local officials not to talk to their members who had questions and issued a 1-800 number instead. Like you have stated before most of us are novices and do not have the time or expertise to act on any ERISA law violations, if you have been seriously looking into this matter over the years there is a time and place for professional advice and you are not going to get it on this site no matter how well intended. My attitude is to wait and see what comes down the pike with this withdraw liability and newly created co-sponsored pension plan, but I have to admit that I am very eager to see the light at the end of the tunnel or ALL of us in the Central
States area. The very prospect of us at UPS working till 62 without something going south medically and not being able to collect a full pension is down right depressing, the attrition factor would be considerable.
You may consider patience with most of the members who post here, I have been skimming and collecting any documentation relating to violations of ERISA law, contract agreements, written responses to inquiries from myself and others for a number of years. It is a learning experience and very difficult to understand the ends and outs of ERISA law. I personally can see why I never had the ambition to become an attorney, legal script is beyond my mental capabilites, like reading sandscript to me, I am bored just reading the simple union contract lanuage. Bottom line on this is when it is time for a professional for any of us on any legal matters, do not hesitate saves alot of hurt.
States area. The very prospect of us at UPS working till 62 without something going south medically and not being able to collect a full pension is down right depressing, the attrition factor would be considerable.
You may consider patience with most of the members who post here, I have been skimming and collecting any documentation relating to violations of ERISA law, contract agreements, written responses to inquiries from myself and others for a number of years. It is a learning experience and very difficult to understand the ends and outs of ERISA law. I personally can see why I never had the ambition to become an attorney, legal script is beyond my mental capabilites, like reading sandscript to me, I am bored just reading the simple union contract lanuage. Bottom line on this is when it is time for a professional for any of us on any legal matters, do not hesitate saves alot of hurt.
GuyinBrown
Blah
Does a UPS withdrawal from the CS pension plan still leave us with CS medical or is this a combination deal? I understand that they are different, but I haven't heard or read anything about the medical side of the issue, so I'm curious if it would fall under a UPS plan as well?
UPSer's please read, read , read , read.
Now Read This!!!! Than go to THREAD "THINK IT THRU.......PENSIONS TAKE OVER. BY BROWN DON AND READ PERMALINK #27
