Is Central States pension fund ready to go under?

[area43]

ENRON!

Red, why must you use fear tatics? Enron, yes there was corruption. Just like in the CS plan. Face it, the fund is headed towards Davey Jones locker. Take a look at the pile up down there allready of sep's and mep's. Government is bailing out these failed plans left and right at tax payers expense. There's a lot of great companies out there to invest in that have been around for a long time. UPS is one of them, 100 years. UPS is in the black and as far as I can tell it has never been in the RED. I could be wrong. Red there is no such thing as a sure thing. Its like Vegas, which I love to go there. Went and saw Celine Deion. Ceasars Palace, she was great. Anyhow, there's risk in anything you do. Some great some small. Consider the odds carefully. Do what makes you feel comfortable. It appears you have a love affair with the mep and I respect that, but remember you need lots and lots of ACTIVE working members to make it work. Its just not dependent on yourself. Wait for the next chunk of baby boomers to hit that bad boy. Get out now. UPS has the right idea. Underfunded,LMAO

Red, where do you think the Teamsters puts the money on your behalf that was giving to them by UPS. An Enron type company, perphaps. Or maybe Fedex, DHL. Who knows. Its seems your a little hostile towards Companies in general, but in reality thats what makes the whole economic machine runs. That sustains your families way of life.

 

[705red]

Red, why must you use fear tatics? Enron, yes there was corruption. Just like in the CS plan. Face it, the fund is headed towards Davey Jones locker. Take a look at the pile up down there allready of sep's and mep's. Government is bailing out these failed plans left and right at tax payers expense. There's a lot of great companies out there to invest in that have been around for a long time. UPS is one of them, 100 years. UPS is in the black and as far as I can tell it has never been in the RED. I could be wrong. Red there is no such thing as a sure thing. Its like Vegas, which I love to go there. Went and saw Celine Deion. Ceasars Palace, she was great. Anyhow, there's risk in anything you do. Some great some small. Consider the odds carefully. Do what makes you feel comfortable. It appears you have a love affair with the mep and I respect that, but remember you need lots and lots of ACTIVE working members to make it work. Its just not dependent on yourself. Wait for the next chunk of baby boomers to hit that bad boy. Get out now. UPS has the right idea. Underfunded,LMAO

Red, where do you think the Teamsters puts the money on your behalf that was giving to them by UPS. An Enron type company, perphaps. Or maybe Fedex, DHL. Who knows. Its seems your a little hostile towards Companies in general, but in reality thats what makes the whole economic machine runs. That sustains your families way of life.

Area thanks for giving us this breaking news. Im sure alot of us here had no idea that we received health benefits free of charge from ups. You have 20plus years in and you didnt know that ups pays for these health benefits? You asked where do the teamsters put the money ups gives them on our behalf, are you implying more wrong doing? Because we all know you prove all of your accusations against others on here, yeah right! We have an idea on the process, pension payments go to the pension invetsors and the health benefit monies go to the medical carrier(bcbs, aetna, hmo). But im sure you will deny this is where the monies go and again will have no solid proof of it, only your biased opinion.

 

[Bill]

Area thanks for giving us this breaking news. Im sure alot of us here had no idea that we received health benefits free of charge from ups. You have 20plus years in and you didnt know that ups pays for these health benefits? You asked where do the teamsters put the money ups gives them on our behalf, are you implying more wrong doing? Because we all know you prove all of your accusations against others on here, yeah right! We have an idea on the process, pension payments go to the pension invetsors and the health benefit monies go to the medical carrier(bcbs, aetna, hmo). But im sure you will deny this is where the monies go and again will have no solid proof of it, only your biased opinion.

Red, answer this question. On August 1, 2007, If UPS just contributed an additional $28 per week per employee into the pension fund, then why didn't we receive an increase in our pensions? UPS now contributes over $20,000 per year for each of us towards our benefits, but we continue to take cuts. Does this make any sense to you? With this amount of money that UPS puts in, we should be getting top notch benefits, but instead we receive second or third rate benefits. I know that you are being taken care of, because you have a better plan than the rest of us, but if we all work for the same company, shouldn't all of us get the same benefits as you. It shouldn't matter if someone works in Florida, New York or California. The point is that we should all receive the same package.

 

[Bill]

Isn't the $214 the total contribution we get for both the pension AND the medical? If so, your numbers are flawed. I could very well be the one who is wrong here, I'm not sure.

UPS now contributes $238 per week per employee just for the pension fund. The medical is additional money that UPS contributes.

 

[Bill]

Central States Pension Assets Up $700 Million

August 13, 2007: The assets of the Central States Pension Fund have jumped $700 million in the first six months of this year, reaching $21.4 billion, and could reach $22 billion by the end of 2007.

The assets have increased due to the fact that CS has made it tougher to retire, ergo less money going out. However, if you look at the big picture, the liabilities have increased more than the assets over this period, thus making the overall financial strength of CS weaker. Raymond James, an independent financial expert, has documented that CS will be bankrupt in 7.4 years. This means that unless action is taken now, the employees in CS will not receive much of a pension. CHANGE IS A MUST AT THIS JUNCTURE. THE LONGER WE DO NOTHING, THERE IS A HIGHER CHANCE THAT YOUR PENSION IS GOING DOWN THE DRAIN. We must rid ourselves of CS, and if the Teamsters can not act now to accomplish this, we must rid ourselves of them too..

 

[Bill]

Thats just several links i just googled enron. I dont like bringing up enron but it need to be. I will try and look up other sep plans that bit the bullet and hung out its employees.

This is exactly why we need an independent union (APWA) that will handle only UPS money and not divide it up as the Teamsters do in the multi-employer pension plan. We don't wnat the company or the Teamsters controlling our money.

 

[Bill]

They're really two completely different issues. Pension and 401k plans. The enron folks got in trouble because they were heavily vested in the company stock. When the stock crashed then their 401K's did to. By balancing out your portfolio you would not face the same risk. Same thing with a co-administered pension plan. If you have the right money managers in place then they will set up a diversified portfolio that balances the risk. Thats why an honest solution to CS has to address holding the money managers accountable.

The problem is that half of the trustees (5 out of ten) are Teamster trustees looking out for their own best interests, and not ours. I'm sure these same trustees have a huge pension or multiple pensions safely invested. It would be interesting to find out what the Teamster pensions are!!!! Anyone out there know this information?

 

[705red]

This is exactly why we need an independent union (APWA) that will handle only UPS money and not divide it up as the Teamsters do in the multi-employer pension plan. We don't wnat the company or the Teamsters controlling our money.

E79 your good with digging up info, can you show us where a union like the apwa or any union controls the pension plan without any company control.

 

[705red]

The problem is that half of the trustees (5 out of ten) are Teamster trustees looking out for their own best interests, and not ours. I'm sure these same trustees have a huge pension or multiple pensions safely invested. It would be interesting to find out what the Teamster pensions are!!!! Anyone out there know this information?

And the other 5 company trustees are really fighting for us the employee right? Bs they are more worried about their stockholders than the employees!

 

[pkgdriver]

And the other 5 company trustees are really fighting for us the employee right? Bs they are more worried about their stockholders than the employees!

The funds are managed by trustees, not the employers, and certain provisions appear governed by the Teamsters, again, not the employers. There are 10 trustees overseeing the Fund, including one from UPS, YRC Worldwide, and Arkansas Best and five representatives (u nion employees) from the Teamsters. Thus, UPS and YRC Worldwide, for instance, each only have a 10% vote on actions regarding fund management despite collectively having almost 45% of the active workers in the plan. Actually, though, the most troubling aspect to us is that it appears Teamsters management can determine how the employer contributions (over $20,000 per FTE per year) are allocated to either healthcare or pension. We think that due to keeping such things as healthcare co-pays too low relative to the U.S. industry, management historically diverted some erstwhile
https://web.archive.org/web/2007101...ownloads/Teamsters_Multiemployer_Pensions.pdf

 

[JonFrum]

. . . liabilities have increased more than the assets over this period, thus making the overall financial strength of CS weaker. Raymond James, an independent financial expert, has documented that CS will be bankrupt in 7.4 years.

FALSE.

 

[JonFrum]

The funds are managed by trustees, not the employers,

The funds are managed by the "Named Fiduciaries," Goldman Sachs Asset Management and Northern Trust Global Advisors, under Court Order, not the Trustees.

and certain provisions appear governed by the Teamsters, again, not the employers.

What provisions? The Fund is legally seperate from the IBT.

There are 10 trustees overseeing the Fund, including one from UPS, YRC Worldwide, and Arkansas Best and five representatives (union employees) from the Teamsters. Thus, UPS and YRC Worldwide, for instance, each only have a 10% vote on actions regarding fund management despite collectively having almost 45% of the active workers in the plan.

All five Management Trustees represent UPS, even if only one is actually a UPS executive. All five Union Trustees represent the Teamsters.

Actually, though, the most troubling aspect to us is that it appears Teamsters management can determine how the employer contributions (over $20,000 per FTE per year) are allocated to either healthcare or pension. We think that due to keeping such things as healthcare co-pays too low relative to the U.S. industry, management historically diverted some erstwhile . . .
https://web.archive.org/web/2007101...ownloads/Teamsters_Multiemployer_Pensions.pdf

The allocation of contributions between the Pension Fund and the H&W Fund is done in the collective bargaining process by the Teamsters Negotiating Committee and the Company Negotiating Committee, not "Teamsters management."

That Raymond James report is filled with errors. The above is one paragraph's worth.

 

[area43]

Yes, Red I know UPS paid a certian amount each week for our health care. Thats a given, but I was not sure on the amount. Well now I know. Same goes for the pension. The BIG question I have for Jon and you is, "Why don't you give the common laborers a CHOICE?????????? Why don't you give them their GOD given right to CHOOSE. Why must the Teamsters force them to stay in the plan. This topic is getting way to old, round and round. Again, set up a plain that is in the employees name, lets say an IRA outside of any control or influence by UPS or the Teamsters. This would end all problems. Let the Teamsters or APWA negotiate the weekly contributions. The monies then get dumped into the empoyees IRA fund. Again, Red and Jon if you CHOOSE to stay in the MEP by all means stay in it. I respect your decision. Again, its a power grab nothing less. UPS active employees you are just tooooooo STUPID, STUPID I repeat STUPID in Jons, Reds and the Teamsters eyes to have the freedom to control your own destiny. Teamsters, let the UPSers decide. Why take that away from them?

In closing, Iam for solving the problem. Not just bitching about it. It is very apparent thats all Jon ,Red and the Teamsters want to do. "Cut out the middle man" that what needs to be done. Don't make it more complicated than what it really is. K.I.S.S. Keep it simple stupid. The pension problem isn't that complicated, but they choose to make it that way. Its really getting old, all these threads and posts. We all know what has to be done. CHOICE, let the individual UPSer decide what to dooooooo.

 

[area43]

E79 your good with digging up info, can you show us where a union like the apwa or any union controls the pension plan without any company control.

Red, LMAO like your an expert on calling people out on the way they dig up info. Everybody knows your just Jons puppet. Its obvious, he's feeding all of your lines to you. Red, again stop riding other people's coat tails. Do your own research. Red, you should thank me, I got Jon's email address for you. Your so ungrateful. Spoiled to say the least. Remember, let the UPSer's decide. "Cut out the middle Man"....

 

[area43]

And the other 5 company trustees are really fighting for us the employee right? Bs they are more worried about their stockholders than the employees!

Again, Red we could actually save money by getting rid of all ten of these people. "Cut out the middle Man". Well second thought, people like you and Jon can pay their probably high salaries due to the fact your in love with the MEP. All others should be given the Choice to leave the CS titanic.

 

[area43]

The funds are managed by the "Named Fiduciaries," Goldman Sachs Asset Management and Northern Trust Global Advisors, under Court Order, not the Trustees.


What provisions? The Fund is legally seperate from the IBT.


All five Management Trustees represent UPS, even if only one is actually a UPS executive. All five Union Trustees represent the Teamsters.


The allocation of contributions between the Pension Fund and the H&W Fund is done in the collective bargaining process by the Teamsters Negotiating Committee and the Company Negotiating Committee, not "Teamsters management."

That Raymond James report is filled with errors. The above is one paragraph's worth.

Jon, Again by "Cuting out the Middle man" you can get rid of all this nonsense. Like you said before you are not a big fan of Chit Chat. Thats all this is folks. Jon have the UPSer set up an IRA account in his or her name if they so choose, seperate of any influence by UPS or the Teamsters. Its that simple. When contract time comes around all the Teamsters or APWA has to do is negotiate the weekly contributions. Case closed.

 

[Cezanne]

Spoken by somebody who apparently has nothing to lose. Please consider the people who are close to retirement and can not physically last 10 more years let alone 30. Starting from scratch is not an option.

 

[area43]

Spoken by somebody who apparently has nothing to lose. Please consider the people who are close to retirement and can not physically last 10 more years let alone 30. Starting from scratch is not an option.

I understand your plight. Lets say at 10 years left cut out the middle man plan you would have and I will use Eng 79's $234(Va. is $273 a week I wonder why is there a difference, is $ 234 the correct figure for the CS plan). Ok first for the buy out lets say you have 15 years allready in. Do the math, the teamsters will give you all the money back plus 4 % on top of that for the 15 years. Crisis here folks. Full time,Im talking about here. OK, than that money is put into an IRA with your name on it. That money cannot be touched by UPS or Teamsters. Than from here on out the $234 a week will be put into your account. Lets say the 15 year buy out is 9 gran(average of 15 years ago untill now, not always $234 a week) a year with 4 % added to it. that would be roughly be about 135 gran you would get off the bat into your IRA. Than the contributions at $234 a week would be roughly( I have to go to work in a hurry, my numbers might be a little rough, est. sorry) would another 11 gran a year for 10 years. With no earnings that would be roughly 250 gran after 10 years. Cezanne that would be your nest egg. Not bad. I also assume you are maybe close to getting SS. Add that, and your not looking bad at all. Now, If you are pt, I do have things to say about that at a later date. sincerely a43 ps the $214 a week I used early was for 2004 contributions in the joint 83 plan. Sorry, for using out dated numbers.

 

[705red]

I understand your plight. Lets say at 10 years left cut out the middle man plan you would have and I will use Eng 79's $234(Va. is $273 a week I wonder why is there a difference, is $ 234 the correct figure for the CS plan). Ok first for the buy out lets say you have 15 years allready in. Do the math, the teamsters will give you all the money back plus 4 % on top of that for the 15 years. Crisis here folks. Full time,Im talking about here. OK, than that money is put into an IRA with your name on it. That money cannot be touched by UPS or Teamsters. Than from here on out the $234 a week will be put into your account. Lets say the 15 year buy out is 9 gran(average of 15 years ago untill now, not always $234 a week) a year with 4 % added to it. that would be roughly be about 135 gran you would get off the bat into your IRA. Than the contributions at $234 a week would be roughly( I have to go to work in a hurry, my numbers might be a little rough, est. sorry) would another 11 gran a year for 10 years. With no earnings that would be roughly 250 gran after 10 years. Cezanne that would be your nest egg. Not bad. I also assume you are maybe close to getting SS. Add that, and your not looking bad at all. Now, If you are pt, I do have things to say about that at a later date. sincerely a43 ps the $214 a week I used early was for 2004 contributions in the joint 83 plan. Sorry, for using out dated numbers.

Somebody needs to be sent for a fitness for duty exam!!!!!!

 

[brownmonster]

Area43, I'm all for being able to manage my own account. Problem is the majority of people have trouble managing their money. People on this site that make 70 to 80 grand a year can't survive 2 or 3 weeks if we went on strike. Many people in similar plans don't even sign up or at least take the company match. It's a have it now, buy it today, no thought for tommorow society. Ask how many drivers in your area even participate in the 401k. The majority of the people need someone to look out for them and that's why the Teamster pension, no matter how much it shrinks, is the only thing many can count on. BM