Maybe now is the right time to organize

[Nolimitz]

That wouldn't amount to enough to matter. The problem is that the population is growing at a faster rate than the number of doctors, and people are living longer.

there are ways to increase incentives to educate more health care folks. Oh ya that's too expensive as well.

 

[bacha29]

That wouldn't amount to enough to matter. The problem is that the population is growing at a faster rate than the number of doctors, and people are living longer.

One estimate of the cost of administering and managing all of the dozens of different payment and insurance plans came a few years back at $400 million a year.

Now Dano, if the ACA as expected is overturned and as we all know the so called "repeal and replace with something better" is a lie. If it wasn't the "something better" would have been rolled out by now.

As a result a single payer system will be all that's left because the GOP never came up with anything in the way of an alternative period.

And if the GOP gets a SPS shoved down it's throat...they have no one to blame but themselves for their inaction.

 

[vantexan]

When you go to that other country chances are it's healthcare system will be to a considerable degree socialist in it's design. Sort of the like the socialist healthcare system we currently have....It's called Medicare and Medicaid and Social Security. These are all very much "socialist" in their design.

Trouble is you keep trying to cherry pick and separate out the "socialist" programs that stand to benefit you from the ones that won't ..Now what's the sense in that?

I'm fully aware of the drawbacks of socialism in other countries. In Argentina it's called Peronism. It has about destroyed their economy. Bless their hearts, it will make it possible to live there on very little. Right now if you send yourself $1000 through Western Union in Argentina you'll get $2075 USD worth of pesos at the official exchange rate. That makes Argentina even cheaper than India for those with incomes in Dollars, Euros, or Pounds. And yet the quality of life is decent.

 

[59 Dano]

there are ways to increase incentives to educate more health care folks. Oh ya that's too expensive as well.

Heck yeah! Just dangle a few extra bucks out there and we can crank out doctors left and right!!

 

[59 Dano]

One estimate of the cost of administering and managing all of the dozens of different payment and insurance plans came a few years back at $400 million a year.

Now Dano, if the ACA as expected is overturned and as we all know the so called "repeal and replace with something better" is a lie. If it wasn't the "something better" would have been rolled out by now.

As a result a single payer system will be all that's left because the GOP never came up with anything in the way of an alternative period.

And if the GOP gets a SPS shoved down it's throat...they have no one to blame but themselves for their inaction.

Today's medical system is the result of fifty-odd years of government mandates, programs, and regulations. People like you think we need more.

 

[bacha29]

I'm fully aware of the drawbacks of socialism in other countries. In Argentina it's called Peronism. It has about destroyed their economy. Bless their hearts, it will make it possible to live there on very little. Right now if you send yourself $1000 through Western Union in Argentina you'll get $2075 USD worth of pesos at the official exchange rate. That makes Argentina even cheaper than India for those with incomes in Dollars, Euros, or Pounds. And yet the quality of life is decent.

You keep falling back onto the rusted out quill of Argentina . Trouble with you is that you're deathly afraid that socialism is going to destroy socialism inspired American programs that will backstop every thing you plan to do in the future. You do indeed fear that socialism will in fact destroy your favorite socialism inspired programs that you try to keep separate from the fray.

 

[bacha29]

Today's medical system is the result of fifty-odd years of government mandates, programs, and regulations. People like you think we need more.

Compared to the mess we've got now it would therefore seem that a SPS would be far less cumbersome that what we've got now. Medicare has shown that it can work and on a basis highly competitive with whatever anybody else has to offer.

 

[vantexan]

You keep falling back onto the rusted out quill of Argentina . Trouble with you is that you're deathly afraid that socialism is going to destroy socialism inspired American programs that will backstop every thing you plan to do in the future. You do indeed fear that socialism will in fact destroy your favorite socialism inspired programs that you try to keep separate from the fray.

Your party created those programs so why are you attacking them? The fact is those programs were created to be self sustaining by more level headed Democrats than we have today. The fantasies today's Democrats are pursuing will break the country. And yet you'll insist on running us into the ground rather than admit utopia isn't right around the corner.

 

[59 Dano]

Compared to the mess we've got now it would therefore seem that a SPS would be far less cumbersome that what we've got now. Medicare has shown that it can work and on a basis highly competitive with whatever anybody else has to offer.

OK, we get a SPS. Which do you prefer:
a) lower quality of care
b) longer waits for care
c) both

 

[bacha29]

OK, we get a SPS. Which do you prefer:
a) lower quality of care
b) longer waits for care
c) both

What you talking about here now is capacity both in terms of upsized and downsized capacity. My community hospital as a matter of survival due almost exclusively to uncompensated care had to allow itself to be taken over by a larger system. When the new honchos came in they closed the neonatal unit due to a lack of patient volume along with many other services. Today the lights are out on 3 of it's 4 floors and it now serves to feed the larger hospitals within it's system . So Dano it is in part a volume issue when it comes to certain services and their profitability

A few years before the passage of the ACA a Texas gas and oil driller sent his crew who brought along their families with them into a neighboring county in my state to drill gas and oil wells. The problem was that the employees of that large independent third party contract driller had no health insurance. That Texas employer had no benefit plan...no surprise. Naturally, whatever healthcare those employees and their families needed they went to the nearby small town community hospital that served the local residents well for years. And so knowing that they would only be there for as long as it took to drill the contracted wells about a year or so they stiffed that little hospital for millions draining all of it's charity care, to the point where state government had to step in and make an emergency grant to keep it going until it could be taken over by a larger system. it was either that or close altogether. So Dano it bull feces situations like this is whether a SPS's care good bad or something in between it is what you're going to get if you guys on the right don't come up with a genuine and workable solution pretty damn quick after the ACA is overturned.

 

[bacha29]

Your party created those programs so why are you attacking them? The fact is those programs were created to be self sustaining by more level headed Democrats than we have today. The fantasies today's Democrats are pursuing will break the country. And yet you'll insist on running us into the ground rather than admit utopia isn't right around the corner.

"Fantasy Socialist Democrats" is what the Right called the Roosevelt New Deal and Johnson Great Society Democrats But after the Democrats managed to get their "Socialist" programs agenda passed despite bitter GOP opposition the Repugs were first people standing in line to sign up for them. The name calling and demonizing the Right is using today to describe the Democrats is the same thing they said about them 80 years ago. How much of it the American people will continue to believe is something we'll find out in a couple of weeks.

 

[vantexan]

"Fantasy Socialist Democrats" is what the Right called the Roosevelt New Deal and Johnson Great Society Democrats But after the Democrats managed to get their "Socialist" programs agenda passed despite bitter GOP opposition the Repugs were first people standing in line to sign up for them. The name calling and demonizing the Right is using today to describe the Democrats is the same thing they said about them 80 years ago. How much of it the American people will continue to believe is something we'll find out in a couple of weeks.

Nothing proposed in the past comes as close, nowhere near, what the New Green Deal proposes. Sorry, I'm not working until I drop to pay all the taxes necessary to pay for even a small part of the NGD. They'd have everyone working for the government.

 

[bacha29]

Nothing proposed in the past comes as close, nowhere near, what the New Green Deal proposes. Sorry, I'm not working until I drop to pay all the taxes necessary to pay for even a small part of the NGD. They'd have everyone working for the government.

THE NGD is on it's way to becoming reality . The US has gone from 540 coal fired plants to 260 and most will be retired by 2030. Why? it's not just because they're dirty. Dirty or not they've become too damn expensive to operate. First Energy found that out when it created a new subsidiary company then took all of their old coal and nukes then threw them into the deregulated power market and believed that they could compete...Wrong! The entire subsidiary filed for bankruptcy after just a few years stiffing creditors 3 billon in unpaid bills.

Today in my county that at one time was a big coal producer has permits filed for 3 new solar fired power plants. Sure there'll will still be a few base load plants around for a while but renewables are not only the future of the power generation industry... it's the present.

 

[vantexan]

THE NGD is on it's way to becoming reality . The US has gone from 540 coal fired plants to 260 and most will be retired by 2030. Why? it's not just because they're dirty. Dirty or not they've become too damn expensive to operate. First Energy found that out when it created a new subsidiary company then took all of their old coal and nukes then threw them into the deregulated power market and believed that they could compete...Wrong! The entire subsidiary filed for bankruptcy after just a few years stiffing creditors 3 billon in unpaid bills.

Today in my county that at one time was a big coal producer has permits filed for 3 new solar fired power plants. Sure there'll will still be a few base load plants around for a while but renewables are not only the future of the power generation industry... it's the present.

The technology isn't there to replace natural gas with solar and wind yet that is what the NGD proposes to do. And retrofit every existing building in the U.S. among other things. Absolutely pie in the sky dreaming that'll break the bank.

 

[Fred's Myth]

"Fantasy Socialist Democrats" is what the Right called the Roosevelt New Deal and Johnson Great Society Democrats But after the Democrats managed to get their "Socialist" programs agenda passed despite bitter GOP opposition the Repugs were first people standing in line to sign up for them. The name calling and demonizing the Right is using today to describe the Democrats is the same thing they said about them 80 years ago. How much of it the American people will continue to believe is something we'll find out in a couple of weeks.

What better way to test the viability of the system?

 

[Fred's Myth]

THE NGD is on it's way to becoming reality . The US has gone from 540 coal fired plants to 260 and most will be retired by 2030. Why? it's not just because they're dirty. Dirty or not they've become too damn expensive to operate. First Energy found that out when it created a new subsidiary company then took all of their old coal and nukes then threw them into the deregulated power market and believed that they could compete...Wrong! The entire subsidiary filed for bankruptcy after just a few years stiffing creditors 3 billon in unpaid bills.

Today in my county that at one time was a big coal producer has permits filed for 3 new solar fired power plants. Sure there'll will still be a few base load plants around for a while but renewables are not only the future of the power generation industry... it's the present.

What you're describing is not what the NGD is proposing. It's a fiscal response to the market.

 

[59 Dano]

What you talking about here now is capacity both in terms of upsized and downsized capacity. My community hospital as a matter of survival due almost exclusively to uncompensated care had to allow itself to be taken over by a larger system. When the new honchos came in they closed the neonatal unit due to a lack of patient volume along with many other services. Today the lights are out on 3 of it's 4 floors and it now serves to feed the larger hospitals within it's system . So Dano it is in part a volume issue when it comes to certain services and their profitability

A few years before the passage of the ACA a Texas gas and oil driller sent his crew who brought along their families with them into a neighboring county in my state to drill gas and oil wells. The problem was that the employees of that large independent third party contract driller had no health insurance. That Texas employer had no benefit plan...no surprise. Naturally, whatever healthcare those employees and their families needed they went to the nearby small town community hospital that served the local residents well for years. And so knowing that they would only be there for as long as it took to drill the contracted wells about a year or so they stiffed that little hospital for millions draining all of it's charity care, to the point where state government had to step in and make an emergency grant to keep it going until it could be taken over by a larger system. it was either that or close altogether. So Dano it bull feces situations like this is whether a SPS's care good bad or something in between it is what you're going to get if you guys on the right don't come up with a genuine and workable solution pretty damn quick after the ACA is overturned.

If you don't want to answer the question, isn't it quicker and easier just to skip the reply altogether?

 

[59 Dano]

What you're describing is not what the NGD is proposing. It's a fiscal response to the market.

He sees normal market reactions as anything but.

 

[Cactus]

This thread is 27 pages long and the last 23 or so are way off topic. Nice job moderators.

Damn, it's mostly Dano swaking like a g'damn parrot "I'm always right" "I'm always right" "I'm always right" "I'm always right"

He sure as hell must not have a whole lot to do in his cushy Memphis suite.

 

[It will be fine]

This thread is 27 pages long and the last 23 or so are way off topic. Nice job moderators.

Damn, it's mostly Dano swaking like a g'damn parrot "I'm always right" "I'm always right" "I'm always right" "I'm always right"

He sure as hell must not have a whole lot to do in his cushy Memphis suite.

Thread isn’t marked “on topic” it’s what’s expected.