New Social Security bill

[LarryBird]

I made a post that was deleted for personal attack apparently.

I think because it talked about an ice cream spoon perhaps.

Are we not allowed to respond to an attack with an attack here?

The rest of the info in the post was pertinent to the conversation at hand. In the future it'd be nice to just have the opportunity to edit any offending sentence out instead of having to repost the rest again, whomever modded that.

 

[vantexan]

That's fine ... then you should not get a divorce if that is what God tells you.
However, it has nothing to do with anyone else.

But I didn't tell anyone else to follow suit. Someone told me to ditch my wife and I stated I don't believe in that. That's the problem these days, a simple statement of personal belief isn't allowed without someone jumping on it.

 

[LarryBird]

That you think healthcare is free in many countries, for one, suggests you need to do a bit more research. Adios!

Let's clarify that I said civilized aka developed countries. And I'm right.

Here's a list of countries with universal healthcare:
List of countries with universal healthcare - Wikipedia

You'll notice it's quite a few countries there on that list, all over the world. In countries poorer than practically Mississippi alone. And we know how that state rolls - fat and dirt poor.(this is factual)

There's 33 countries considered fully developed, and 32 of them have free healthcare for all - the one that doesn't is listed in the link:
Why America Is the Only Rich Country Without Universal Health Care

I'm just gonna leave it at this. Although the last post was infinitely better. For reasons I'd guess I can't post about unless I want this deleted again.

 

[vantexan]

Let's clarify that I said civilized aka developed countries. And I'm right.

Here's a list of countries with universal healthcare:
List of countries with universal healthcare - Wikipedia

You'll notice it's quite a few countries there on that list, all over the world. In countries poorer than practically Mississippi alone. And we know how that state rolls - fat and dirt poor.(this is factual)

There's 33 countries considered fully developed, and 32 of them have free healthcare for all - the one that doesn't is listed in the link:
Why America Is the Only Rich Country Without Universal Health Care

I'm just gonna leave it at this. Although the last post was infinitely better. For reasons I'd guess I can't post about unless I want this deleted again.

It's not free, someone has to pay for it. And in countries with universal healthcare they typically have shortages of medical workers and long waits to see specialists and have procedures done. Be careful what you wish for.

 

[Frankie's Friend]

I made a post that was deleted for personal attack apparently.I think because it talked about an ice cream spoon perhaps.
Are we not allowed to respond to an attack with an attack here?
The rest of the info in the post was pertinent to the conversation at hand. In the future it'd be nice to just have the opportunity to edit any offending sentence out instead of having to repost the rest again, whomever modded that.

I'm just gonna leave it at this. Although the last post was infinitely better. For reasons I'd guess I can't post about unless I want this deleted again.

Short memory bud?

BTW...

The quality of "free" healthcare in other countries is what in comparison to ours? Getting a clue doesn't require a prescription in case you didn't know.

 

[Frankie's Friend]

(I)...don't believe in divorce except for adultery.

That's fine ... then you should not get a divorce if that is what God tells you.
However, it has nothing to do with anyone else.

I believe that is what he meant.

 

[LarryBird]

It's not free, someone has to pay for it. And in countries with universal healthcare they typically have shortages of medical workers and long waits to see specialists and have procedures done. Be careful what you wish for.

No it's funded by everyone who pays taxes, c'mon man. Nobody's saying it's not paid for somehow.

Don't believe the propaganda about shortages and long lines. The people in these countries in general are extremely satisfied with their healthcare systems, much more so than the US in most cases. They're also healthier as a society taken as a whole than we are in most cases as well, as they focus on prevention instead of treatment after the fact. Obviously some of the countries are better than others but that's to be expected in any field or area of expertise.

Our healthcare system measures up poorly to a lot of those countries in a whole variety of different measures. And obviously, it rates well in some as well. The fact is, society as a whole would be better off. People wouldn't die waiting for insurance companies to finally approve tests and procedures on a cost/benefit analysis or just flat out hoping to outlast you and/or frustrate you into giving up and going away. Lawyers would not have to be called to get a ing mri or whatever odd thing done - they just do it - because it's the right thing to do and because the cost of healthcare in these places is so much cheaper because you're not subsidizing those who are uninsured through your own insurance premiums. In other words, no $20 advils or $50 band-aids.

 

[BrownFlush]

Are we not allowed to respond to an attack with an attack here?

Only a select few sucks.

But, the way you came on the scene and how you've been talking, you'll make the suck list before you know it.

 

[El Correcto]

No it's funded by everyone who pays taxes, c'mon man. Nobody's saying it's not paid for somehow.

Don't believe the propaganda about shortages and long lines. The people in these countries in general are extremely satisfied with their healthcare systems, much more so than the US in most cases. They're also healthier as a society taken as a whole than we are in most cases as well, as they focus on prevention instead of treatment after the fact. Obviously some of the countries are better than others but that's to be expected in any field or area of expertise.

Our healthcare system measures up poorly to a lot of those countries in a whole variety of different measures. And obviously, it rates well in some as well. The fact is, society as a whole would be better off. People wouldn't die waiting for insurance companies to finally approve tests and procedures on a cost/benefit analysis or just flat out hoping to outlast you and/or frustrate you into giving up and going away. Lawyers would not have to be called to get a ing mri or whatever odd thing done - they just do it - because it's the right thing to do and because the cost of healthcare in these places is so much cheaper because you're not subsidizing those who are uninsured through your own insurance premiums. In other words, no $20 advils or $50 band-aids.

I’d be satisfied to if Europe was doing all the heavy lifting when it comes to medical research and stimulating innovation by not participating in price controls, while we just sat there and leached off the increased global standard of healthcare with price controls.

 

[Old Man Jingles]

I believe that is what he meant.

I agree but Van and Flush like to tell others how to live, based on their religious beliefs.

Van's past posting MO bit him in this instance.

 

[El Correcto]

When is the last time a politician came out and said I’m not for government intervention in healthcare. It is not a right and our regulations are driving the prices up. You want to point blame why don’t we take a look at the FDA and the AMA. Why are we placing a strangle hold on development and driving up prices with government sanctioned hoops for the industry to jump through.

 

[LarryBird]

View attachment 237512

Short memory bud?

BTW...

The quality of "free" healthcare in other countries is what in comparison to ours? Getting a clue doesn't require a prescription in case you didn't know.

Pretty damn good.

Don't believe the propaganda.

I was gonna post some WHO stats and point you in the direction of sites to look into why you're off base. But I'm tired, and you're kind of a .

You're welcome to do your own research though. But watch the sites you visit, lotta misinformation out there on this topic.

Also, nobody's saying that the best medical care in the world can't be found in America for those who can pay for it - just don't expect that your insurance company will do such a thing, unless THEY deem it necessary, not your doctor - if you're willing to go into your own pocket the US definitely has all the bells and whistles. (But it usually doesn't rate as the best healthcare in the world on many lists. Wonder why?)

 

[BrownFlush]

I agree but Van and Flush like to tell everyone how to live their lives based on their religious beliefs.

Van's past posting MO bit him in this instance.

Nope.
Many of my conclusions on issues have nothing to do with religion.
A lot of people are threatened when they hear something they don't like or disagree with.
The charge of telling everyone how to live their lives based on anything is unfounded.

 

[LarryBird]

When is the last time a politician came out and said I’m not for government intervention in healthcare. It is not a right and our regulations are driving the prices up. You want to point blame why don’t we take a look at the FDA and the AMA. Why are we placing a strangle hold on development and driving up prices with government sanctioned hoops for the industry to jump through.

This is super complex. There's so many valid points to made on both sides of the argument. The government, AMA, and pharmaceutical companies in conjunction with the FDA tend to err on the side of caution when it comes to developing new drugs and treatments for very valid reasons. Our sue happy country, not the least of them. Protection of the patients against unscrupulous companies who would rush unproven products to market is the foremost.

I don't know that anyone would really argue that we've found the sweet spot between innovation and protection of the patient. As far as driving the prices up, there's a whole slew of reasons for that as well.

We could fill the current length of this thread 10x over before a fraction of the points were all laid out and the arguments were made for both sides.

A message board isn't the place for it. I'm not really sure where is the place, and that's part of the issue too.

Who decides these things? Personal responsibility? Government's? Big pharma? No great answers. No perfect solution. My head wants to explode just considering it.

 

[LarryBird]

Also to pretend that medical and pharmaceutical innovation doesn't come out of other countries like Germany for instance, is just disingenuous.

They've been at the forefront of medical and pharmaceutical technology since it's dawn.

 

[vantexan]

I agree but Van and Flush like to tell others how to live, based on their religious beliefs.

Van's past posting MO bit him in this instance.

Name where I've said you've got to do things my way? I've stated that I think doing drugs is harmful and as a Christian I believe that to be wrong. I've argued with you over the effects of marijuana and as always is the case when someone really likes something they don't want to hear anything negative. I've argued abortion is murder and will always believe that. There are people on this forum who flat out hate people like me for having those beliefs. But it's a free country and as long as people are going to put down those of us who believe in certain things I'm going to keep telling them I believe they are wrong.

 

[Old Man Jingles]

Name where I've said you've got to do things my way? I've stated that I think doing drugs is harmful and as a Christian I believe that to be wrong. I've argued with you over the effects of marijuana and as always is the case when someone really likes something they don't want to hear anything negative. I've argued abortion is murder and will always believe that. There are people on this forum who flat out hate people like me for having those beliefs. But it's a free country and as long as people are going to put down those of us who believe in certain things I'm going to keep telling them I believe they are wrong.

Nope.

The charge of telling everyone how to live their lives based on anything is unfounded.

Yep.
When you tell other Christians how they should interpret The Bible, you are telling them how to live their lives.

 

[El Correcto]

Also to pretend that medical and pharmaceutical innovation doesn't come out of other countries like Germany for instance, is just disingenuous.

They've been at the forefront of medical and pharmaceutical technology since it's dawn.

Germany doesn’t hold a candle to America, they aren’t even the leader in Europe.

Even more laxed healthcare systems like Switzerland, that are better than Germany in research, are seeing increased premium costs year after year by 3%-5%. Their system is unsustainable without stricter price controls and limiting their citizens access to treatments.

 

[vantexan]

No it's funded by everyone who pays taxes, c'mon man. Nobody's saying it's not paid for somehow.

Don't believe the propaganda about shortages and long lines. The people in these countries in general are extremely satisfied with their healthcare systems, much more so than the US in most cases. They're also healthier as a society taken as a whole than we are in most cases as well, as they focus on prevention instead of treatment after the fact. Obviously some of the countries are better than others but that's to be expected in any field or area of expertise.

Our healthcare system measures up poorly to a lot of those countries in a whole variety of different measures. And obviously, it rates well in some as well. The fact is, society as a whole would be better off. People wouldn't die waiting for insurance companies to finally approve tests and procedures on a cost/benefit analysis or just flat out hoping to outlast you and/or frustrate you into giving up and going away. Lawyers would not have to be called to get a ing mri or whatever odd thing done - they just do it - because it's the right thing to do and because the cost of healthcare in these places is so much cheaper because you're not subsidizing those who are uninsured through your own insurance premiums. In other words, no $20 advils or $50 band-aids.

You're kidding yourself but I've already stated here before that it looks like socialism is where we headed so we'll just have to see how it all turns out.

 

[El Correcto]

Also to pretend that medical and pharmaceutical innovation doesn't come out of other countries like Germany for instance, is just disingenuous.

They've been at the forefront of medical and pharmaceutical technology since it's dawn.

I don’t know how old you are but it’s time to grow up. No one should be a democratic socialist after they start paying taxes and having a career. It’s like being Matthew McConoughey in dazed in confused