ORION

[Mugarolla]

Yes. Thank you sir.

I mean no. The problem is NOT the math equation. The problem is UPS relying on a math equation that can only achieve 85% at it best. Realistically, ORION is more like 50% to 70% effective in the everyday world.

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

Sure it will. Hand the DIAD, which is set up by Orion, to a much lower paid new hire and tell him/her to follow it stop for stop. "Area knowledge" will be replaced by "delivery for dummies".

There is no one here that cannot be replaced by a lower paid new hire. The Company knows this and, sadly, so does the Union.

More fantasy land nonsense. If the bulk of the current drivers on ORION can't make it work then how's a bunch of new hires going to fare better? They wouldn't.

PAS/EDD have made me a much more efficient driver.

Good for you. Too bad the majority of the rest of us don't have a perfect route in a world of unicorns and rainbows.

 

[Mugarolla]

More fantasy land nonsense. If the bulk of the current drivers on ORION can't make it work then how's a bunch of new hires going to fare better? They wouldn't.

They can make it work. Just not very well. It can get the job done at the cost of more OT.

ODO turns a 9 hour day into 10 hours.

And at $10 less per hour, they can pay more OT and still save money.

In 2018, UPS will throw ORION on the bargaining table and ask for the sky. What they will settle on is anybody's guess.

But it could get ugly.

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

They can make it work. Just not very well. It can get the job done at the cost of more OT.

ODO turns a 9 hour day into 10 hours.

And at $10 less per hour, they can pay more OT and still save money.

In 2018, UPS will throw ORION on the bargaining table and ask for the sky. What they will settle on is anybody's guess.

But it could get ugly.

That would be an unwise bluff on UPS's part. Like I told Upstate....we've heard that before about EDD. It never happened. UPS, despite what they tell the stock holders, knows ORION doesn't work. Therefore...they know that handing a bunch of new drivers a DIAD and setting them loose with ORION and EDD would be an epic disaster. Even if that disaster were short lived UPS would suffer long term. If customers think service is failing now they are in for a huge awakening should UPS actually use ORION/EDD as a bluff and somehow end up replacing all of us. The average Joe would likely do this job for much less per hour but not under the extreme pressure UPS would put on a non-unionized workforce. Many of our current drivers practically crack under the pressure of management's metrics and harassment. Imagine a bunch of new drivers working for a UPS that doesn't have a union to quell their harassment. The turnover in package would rival the part-time hub work. Even at $10 less per hour the rapidly declining service would would kill UPS. FedEx will grow even faster. UPS will shrink to mediocrity.

 

[SCV good to go sir.]

I know of at least 2 center managers that are gaming Orion. Both of them have told me to use it until I finish my NDA and then switch to EDD. The fact of the matter is that Orion is not as efficient as EDD. The job is hard enough with EDD and even if Orion did work perfectly, it still wouldn't be the union buster. Orion/EDD don't tell you where the best place to park is, the exact delivery points for our customers, who to get the signature from, which entrances to use/avoid, etc. There's a lot more to our job than just following a list of stop order. Overpaid Union Thug is absolutely right about UPS shooting themselves in the foot if they think they can get away with putting scabs on Orion. I hope their bluff ends with the company telling its employees that Orion works. Until the package cars can drive themselves and/or have smartphone gps installed, I believe UPS will remain dependent on well paid, experienced drivers.

 

[box_beeyotch]

I know of at least 2 center managers that are gaming Orion. Both of them have told me to use it until I finish my NDA and then switch to EDD. The fact of the matter is that Orion is not as efficient as EDD. The job is hard enough with EDD and even if Orion did work perfectly, it still wouldn't be the union buster. Orion/EDD don't tell you where the best place to park is, the exact delivery points for our customers, who to get the signature from, which entrances to use/avoid, etc. There's a lot more to our job than just following a list of stop order. Overpaid Union Thug is absolutely right about UPS shooting themselves in the foot if they think they can get away with putting scabs on Orion. I hope their bluff ends with the company telling its employees that Orion works. Until the package cars can drive themselves and/or have smartphone gps installed, I believe UPS will remain dependent on well paid, experienced drivers.

Exactly. We were trained well enough to know safe park positions, when and where is a good place to turn around safely despite what ORION wants you to do. The thing that really gets me about it is it wants you to make one stop like three stops by delivering 1030 commits, then going back later for 1500 commits, and then later a third time for ground....how is that productive and or efficient mile wise?

 

[Mugarolla]

That would be an unwise bluff on UPS's part. Like I told Upstate....we've heard that before about EDD. It never happened. UPS, despite what they tell the stock holders, knows ORION doesn't work. Therefore...they know that handing a bunch of new drivers a DIAD and setting them loose with ORION and EDD would be an epic disaster. Even if that disaster were short lived UPS would suffer long term. If customers think service is failing now they are in for a huge awakening should UPS actually use ORION/EDD as a bluff and somehow end up replacing all of us. The average Joe would likely do this job for much less per hour but not under the extreme pressure UPS would put on a non-unionized workforce. Many of our current drivers practically crack under the pressure of management's metrics and harassment. Imagine a bunch of new drivers working for a UPS that doesn't have a union to quell their harassment. The turnover in package would rival the part-time hub work. Even at $10 less per hour the rapidly declining service would would kill UPS. FedEx will grow even faster. UPS will shrink to mediocrity.

Good post. But will the union even entertain the thought of calling their bluff?

 

[Bottom rung]

Thay have to. They know it's b.s. just like everyone else who's seen IN PERSON the results of this failure.

 

[ArcherUTR]

Yes. Thank you sir.

If that's what you were trying to say, then I am puzzled by your first reply.

If anyone can logically/mathematically reduce the Traveling Salesman Problem to a non-exponential problem set, then they will be mathematically and financially sucked off to infinity Mars.

What are you trying to say?

Also if you are trying to say that ORION can never be more than 85% correct because of the 'equation' (when you really mean an ad-hoc algorithm), then you are wrong on that too.

 

[FilingBluesFL]

The route I was on today is almost impossible to follow with Orion.

There are customers that get on the blower if their stuff isn't delivered by 10-11am, because they use the goods they receive to manufacture and ship packages out later in the day. Orion had me going there at almost the time I would be there to do their daily pickup. Fail.

Dispatch put 3 different neighborhoods that were only HALF of the neighborhood. Orion routinely had me trying to deliver these partial neighborhoods between commercial area's on the route. No time for that before pickups, or businesses would be missed. Fail Again.

Orion wanted me to continue delivering businesses while doing daily pickups. One of those businesses sent out over 50 2 day air internationals which I barely had room for as it was. Fail Again.

This system seems to think that businesses that receive and then turn around the product and ship it the same day can do so in the span of scanning packages, and then getting a signature. Not possible.

If I followed Orion today, I'd have complaints out the ass, and I'd be in the office tomorrow for failing to make service on at least half the businesses on that route, and for having missed pickups.

Not to mention OCA's, that I had to do NDA's in a different town and didn't get to my area until almost 11am, and business misloads that need to be serviced....

 

[PT Car Washer]

The route I was on today is almost impossible to follow with Orion.

There are customers that get on the blower if their stuff isn't delivered by 10-11am, because they use the goods they receive to manufacture and ship packages out later in the day. Orion had me going there at almost the time I would be there to do their daily pickup. Fail.

Dispatch put 3 different neighborhoods that were only HALF of the neighborhood. Orion routinely had me trying to deliver these partial neighborhoods between commercial area's on the route. No time for that before pickups, or businesses would be missed. Fail Again.

Orion wanted me to continue delivering businesses while doing daily pickups. One of those businesses sent out over 50 2 day air internationals which I barely had room for as it was. Fail Again.

This system seems to think that businesses that receive and then turn around the product and ship it the same day can do so in the span of scanning packages, and then getting a signature. Not possible.

If I followed Orion today, I'd have complaints out the ass, and I'd be in the office tomorrow for failing to make service on at least half the businesses on that route, and for having missed pickups.

Not to mention OCA's, that I had to do NDA's in a different town and didn't get to my area until almost 11am, and business misloads that need to be serviced....

Yeah. Just send the newbe's out blind to figure it out.

 

[ArmygreenUPSbrown]

I have ran ORION for 4dys and I really like the concept but when you try to use it on an incorrectly looped route it will not work. I can reduce miles (which is what our supv team is pushing right now) or I can run Orion trace but you can't get both when the route is not looped correctly. When the Orion supervisor road with me (1dy- is not enough time to see an entire route and all the different issues a driver can encounter) we were way behind all day, late for pick-ups and delivered 6 busi stops after 5. After reading "deadmanwalking"'s comments, it makes more sense as to why they are pushing a system that seems so senseless. Oh, BTW, I was told that it will be turned off during peak.

 

[By The Book]

The route I was on today is almost impossible to follow with Orion.

There are customers that get on the blower if their stuff isn't delivered by 10-11am, because they use the goods they receive to manufacture and ship packages out later in the day. Orion had me going there at almost the time I would be there to do their daily pickup. Fail.

Dispatch put 3 different neighborhoods that were only HALF of the neighborhood. Orion routinely had me trying to deliver these partial neighborhoods between commercial area's on the route. No time for that before pickups, or businesses would be missed. Fail Again.

Orion wanted me to continue delivering businesses while doing daily pickups. One of those businesses sent out over 50 2 day air internationals which I barely had room for as it was. Fail Again.

This system seems to think that businesses that receive and then turn around the product and ship it the same day can do so in the span of scanning packages, and then getting a signature. Not possible.

If I followed Orion today, I'd have complaints out the ass, and I'd be in the office tomorrow for failing to make service on at least half the businesses on that route, and for having missed pickups.

Not to mention OCA's, that I had to do NDA's in a different town and didn't get to my area until almost 11am, and business misloads that need to be serviced....

This sounds like one of Toonertoo's days.

 

[soberups]

PAS/EDD have made me a much more efficient driver.

PAS/EDD was designed and implemented by management people who had actual job experience and knowledge, for the purpose of loading and delivering a route as efficiently as possible.

ORION was designed and implemented by outside subcontractors with no UPS experience, and whose only knowledge of work procedures came from downloading a copy of the 340 Methods onto a Kindle. It is nothing but a glorified exercise in map theory, with its only goal being the theoretical reduction of miles without any regard for the day to day reality of running a delivery route.

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

Good post. But will the union even entertain the thought of calling their bluff?

That should be everyone's concern. Even a half competent union would call that bluff with a laugh.

 

[Mugarolla]

If that's what you were trying to say, then I am puzzled by your first reply.

If anyone can logically/mathematically reduce the Traveling Salesman Problem to a non-exponential problem set, then they will be mathematically and financially sucked off to infinity Mars.

What are you trying to say?

Also if you are trying to say that ORION can never be more than 85% correct because of the 'equation' (when you really mean an ad-hoc algorithm), then you are wrong on that too.

Let's put it this way for all the non-mathematicians and non-computer science gurus...

Whether it is due to the equation, algorithm, the way the wind blows or an act of God...

ORION can never do better than 85%

Period!

 

[By The Book]

Let's put it this way for all the non-mathematicians and non-computer science gurus...

Whether it is due to the equation, algorithm, the way the wind blows or an act of God...

ORION can never do better than 85%

Period!

When used as a tool, it can do much better.

 

[soberups]

When used as a tool, it can do much better.

So can PAS/EDD.

 

[oldngray]

So can PAS/EDD.

PAS/EDD only works if they first have a good DOL. Since EDD follows the DOL a bad looping means it won't work. Usually it takes too much time and effort to fix a bad DOL so they ignore the problem. Just like happens with ORION.

 

[bobbybrown]

Orion has me do illegal turns, illegal uturns at intersections, left turns onto mediums and 7 point turns in residential areas. None of these things I actually perform but where is the union on this? Better yet where is the dot on this? Us drivers needs a viral video or photos to show the public so changes with orion will be forced.