President Obama!

brett636

Well-Known Member
Funny how all these Republicans are kicking and screaming over this reform which is virtrually modeled after Romney-care. We all know Romney is a flip-flopper, now we can call the new GQ poster boy Scott Brown a flip-flopper also....

Anyway, it is an expensive bill, but it also has larger offsets. That means it’s bringing in more money (taxes) and making more cuts (savings). These make it deficit reducing. And, for those of you who still buy into the “more years of taxes than benefits”, it’s WAY more deficit reducing in the second decade, when there are 10 years of taxes and 10 years of benefits.
It’s also going to help trim Medicare (which fiscal conservatives would love in a rational world), close the donut hole (which seniors would love in a rational world), and cover 32 million more people (which liberals would love in a rational world).
Legislation is about compromise. This isn’t the bill I would write if I were king of the world. But that’s not the way the world works. This is better than what we’ve got.


The 2nd decade "savings" are most likely way off base as our government's history of calculating entitlement program costs usually are. Our only hope now is the Supreme Court strikes down this unconstitutional legislation well before it makes it to a 2nd decade of law.

Just for reference in 1965 when Medicare was enacted it was predicted it would only cost $9 billion by 1990. In 1990 medicare cost $121 billion. Think we are going to save $1.2 trillion in the 2nd decade of this legislation? Think again...
 

wkmac

Well-Known Member
Any caption I would add would certainly be X-Rated.....make up your own.....



Look at the guy in back to our far left. From the look on his face and that of Pelosi, did he just "hide the salami"? How long is that thing and the "around the corner shot" he had to make, is this his version to the "magic bullet theory"?

Have fun with it folks!

:wink2:

Wait! Look at the guy in the middle. OMG they got a train going on!
:happy-very:
 

klein

Für Meno :)
wkmc: DS,

It would seem on the one hand right now that the US "might" be better tax wise than Canada but I'm not one to automatically think that. In the US, the tax burden can vary from locale to locale as local officals tax in different ways but the one thing that rarely gets included in the US because both parties do it equally well is factor in inflation and public debt burden. When you take into account the actions of State Capitalism using the public trough for both corp. and public welfare means (yeah big business is behind public welfare so don't kid yourselves) and this debt load being passed onto the taxpayer even in future payments or the debt monetized as reflected in inflation of the value of our currency, I believe that the US may indeed be worse off than Canada when it comes to true gov't economic burden. If anything, Canada may be a bit more honest in keeping their true burden up front with direct taxation so at least you can see it coming. Canada is also in better shape because they didn't use debt load to finance now and shift the burden of payments to future taxpayers like the US has or at least not to the same scale. That's how I see it anyway and a credit to you guys for not doing it.

Canada also has another advantage over America not often considered and yet I believe it is a major factor. Kirkpatrick Sale who is a left/liberal leader in the US Sucession movement did a study of nationstatesand regardless of left/right/middle, he looked at what worked and what were the common factors with a view of individual freedom and economic stability and burden on the citizen. He found that not only now but historically, size does matter and size towards a smaller nationstate model. Not geographic territory but numbers of citizens was the key factor. Now Canada although smaller in population than the US does pretty good in overall scheme, there are even smaller countries population wise that does even better than Canada. IMHO, regardless of one's political POV, I think it's a must read and worth the few minutes to do so.

The thing is wkmac, just like in the US, every province has thier own provincial income taxes and sales taxes.
I must admit, DS does live in the largest populated province in Canada, but have recently been getting into higher and higher debt.
Unlike Alberta, that is still debtfree, we don't pay the taxes DS does.
Only 5% GST here, which excludes tax from from most groceries. Junkfood , like coke or chips are taxed at 5%. Or resturant food, (as it is a service).

My income was only $33.000 , being 2 months totally without pay, and ofcourse the low pay from employment insurance.
I paid $3600 in taxes, but received a refund of $1700. They will also issue me 4 quartely GST rebate (refund) checks of $94.50 each, totalling : $378.00. (my low income excludes me from paying GST tax).
So, in the end, I paid just over $1500 on an income of $33 K.
They do help the low income citizens, and tax the richer more.
Keep in mind though, provincial income taxes and sales taxes are lower here, then any other province in Canada.

To your opinion, bigger is better :
Well, to be honest, with the small population we have, it's not easy to have the 2nd largest country in the world.
We have more miles of roads, then any other country on earth. They need to be built and maintained.
Also, most likey the most forest fires, that need to be fought.
Inuits living up north, that we need to supply housing, roads, welfare, schools, and food to, including healthcare. Some of these people need to be flown into the the south (of Canada) for emergency treatment.
And miles and miles of snow removal each year. The average Canadian city spends over $1 Mill a year alone. Add to that the miilions of miles of highways.
And when the ice and cold defrosts in Spring, potholes pop up everywhere, that need to be filled and fixed.
Basically, in a nutshell, a very large place to housekeep.

Smaller countries with a huge population, should do far better. Like West Germany once did. Or Switzerland still does.

I guess everyone does complain about high taxes. In every country. But considering a private healthinsurance would cost anywhere from $700 to $1200 a month (from net pay), like it does in the US for those that aren't covered by employment, we really couldn't afford it.
Thats another mortgage or rent payment per month !

So, by all means, DS is better off, paying higher taxes, which are by no means, the highest in the world... actually, maybe just a few percentages higher then those of the US.
Forsure, we have the better deal.
 

moreluck

golden ticket member
Re: Obamanation here today

Oh Hank did it again...



[video=youtube;QdKmc9aBELM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdKmc9aBELM[/video]



 

av8torntn

Well-Known Member
Funny how all these Republicans are kicking and screaming over this reform .

I was just thinking how funny it was that you were not kicking and screaming over this "reform" especially after all the screaming you did about a loss of privacy when Bush was president with them listening to phone calls from terrorists. Now that you have lost all privacy to your medical decisions and records the only thing you have to say is that at least it's better than what we've got? Yet that was so unacceptable to you when people said that the government listening to phone calls of terrorists was better than another attack.

Anyhow I think the reason they are upset is that they may possibly believe in the Constitution including the ninth and tenth amendments. If a state requires you to purchase insurance that is one thing, but if the federal government requires such that would make it a completely different beast. Just another loss of our freedoms to the large and ever growing central government.
 

klein

Für Meno :)
Anyhow I think the reason they are upset is that they may possibly believe in the Constitution including the ninth and tenth amendments. If a state requires you to purchase insurance that is one thing, but if the federal government requires such that would make it a completely different beast. Just another loss of our freedoms to the large and ever growing central government.


How does your constitution allow some to pay for healthcare insurance before taxes, and others after taxes ? Just wondering, because it sure doesn't seem fair to me.
That, I just can't get over with.
 

av8torntn

Well-Known Member
I guess everyone does complain about high taxes. In every country. But considering a private healthinsurance would cost anywhere from $700 to $1200 a month (from net pay), like it does in the US for those that aren't covered by employment, we really couldn't afford it.
.

Except that really is not true. In 2007 the average individual policy in the states was about 1700 a year not 1200 a month. The average government funded individual policy in the states was around 6700 a year.
In my state you can buy a health insurance policy for as little as 55 a month.

Looks to me that we really cannot afford government health care but lowering costs was never the goal.
 

klein

Für Meno :)
Except that really is not true. In 2007 the average individual policy in the states was about 1700 a year not 1200 a month. The average government funded individual policy in the states was around 6700 a year.
In my state you can buy a health insurance policy for as little as 55 a month.

Your state should win the nobel prize of medicine.
I can't even get travel insurance for $55 a month, gee not even car insurance.
Be happy, this bill won't affect anyone at all, in your state. Gee, if you can't afford $55 a month... atleast the government won't need to subsidize them much.
Thats nothing.
 

av8torntn

Well-Known Member
Your state should win the nobel prize of medicine.
I can't even get travel insurance for $55 a month, gee not even car insurance.
Be happy, this bill won't affect anyone at all, in your state. Gee, if you can't afford $55 a month... atleast the government won't need to subsidize them much.
Thats nothing.

For 55 a month the only coverage you get are major things. All others you pay yourself. This is the way to go if you are young and healthy and your only concern is a severe accident. With this bill those freedoms of choice will disappear. Yet another reason to hate this bill.


Insurance really has nothing to do with medicine. Well unless the government is in control.
 

moreluck

golden ticket member
OK, I was thinking......getting health coverage is to be policed by the IRS. There is no additional money alloted to the IRS for this job. That means that maybe the audits by the IRS will be much much less.....Hooray for us!!

See, there is something good in this bill. :knockedout:
 

klein

Für Meno :)
For 55 a month the only coverage you get are major things. All others you pay yourself. This is the way to go if you are young and healthy and your only concern is a severe accident. With this bill those freedoms of choice will disappear. Yet another reason to hate this bill.


Insurance really has nothing to do with medicine. Well unless the government is in control.

Well, that $55 dollar insurance wouldn't have done me any good, when I was young and healthy.
Playing soccer up to 3 times per week (3 times got broken bones out of it).
Also seen docs for severe fever or colds.
And a few allergic reactions as well (had to take allergy tests, twice).

So, face it... Moreluck knows : $1400 a month to be good covered, for a couple.
 

Lue C Fur

Evil member
OK, I was thinking......getting health coverage is to be policed by the IRS. There is no additional money alloted to the IRS for this job. That means that maybe the audits by the IRS will be much much less.....Hooray for us!!

See, there is something good in this bill. :knockedout:

Keep dreaming...this is just another excuse to grow goverment and the Messiah can say he created more jobs. We dont need more IRS Nazis looking over our shoulder.
 

klein

Für Meno :)
Re: Obamanation here today

I saved it to my favorites and passed it on to many others but i will forget about it after 2012 when the Messiah is gone.

Keep on dreaming, he will have most of all the black votes, the votes of the unemployed (9 %), votes from some republican voters, that now have health insurance, that didn't have before.
Besides , his popularity, (approval rating), percentage is still hoovering around the 50% mark.
 
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