PVD
- Thread starter Wally
- Start date
brownIEman
Well-Known Member
I don't think that info would be overly useful during a strike.
And not to brag but I think I could work up some numbers in just a few minutes that would probably be pretty darn close...
BigUnionGuy
Got the T-Shirt
PVD's are nothing more than a distraction, at this point.
No one in their right mind.... would think the company could garner that
much of a work force, in the event of a strike. Or, to effectively supplement
the current drivers. It's a smoke screen. No more, no less.
-Bug-
No one in their right mind.... would think the company could garner that
much of a work force, in the event of a strike. Or, to effectively supplement
the current drivers. It's a smoke screen. No more, no less.
-Bug-
brownIEman
Well-Known Member
Agreed. I really don't understand why so many seem to be losing their minds over this.
1) The company is implementing them under the Seasonal driver language, so they are seasonal and can only be used during peak
2) They will naturally be limited in the number of packages they can take out at one time.
From the perspective of someone who has been involved in creating and implementing peak plans for a center, I can see a use for seasonals PVDs. - Running Shags, Running Misloads, Running a few limited residential neighborhoods here and their to either help out a driver with a 17 hour planned day or that did not contain on the preload.
But to use them to replace a driver group? I could just imagine my center manager telling us one morning "Well, the Teamsters went out on strike so instead of loading the 18000 packages into the package cars, we are going to set out seperate piles for each of the 900 Dodge Grand Caravans that should be here shortly"
Staydryitsraining
Well-Known Member
People are up in arms because............ It's the start. Not everyone can see 5 steps ahead. They aren't replacing the work force next year but what it is doing is creating a starting point for the company to see how it will work in action and make no mistake about it this is the beginning not the end.
brownIEman
Well-Known Member
Well, if it makes you feel any better, IF the PVD model actually can be made to work to profitably deliver arbitrarily large amounts of business to residential packages, it will most likely be implemented by Amazon and others on a large scale, not UPS. So those packages you would have been willing to strike over UPS giving to PVDs, will not be given to UPS in the first place.
Fun.
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Parking tickets.
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Especially with direct deposit.
Bubblehead
My Senior Picture
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Is that "peak" thru Christmas Day or thru Jan 15th as already allowed by the "union"?
All the while we hear the same garbage that integrad is maxed out (in September/Oct already) and we can't get enough bargaining unit members trained in time so let's just use scabs (who will syphon off more revenue that was built on the backs of hard working and highly scrutinized union members).
There's a 17 hr dispatch waiting for who? And, why is that possible again and again.
Just like abney was quoted this week and let me paraphrase it for you...
"We now use technology and automation to reduce the number of Americans (and their families) we employ and once appreciated so that we, the major stock holders, can take in millions more while disregarding the future of the people who broke their backs at 3:30 am with no benefits, sick days, and a 3.5 hr guarantee".
It used to be about UPS PEOPLE at UPS.
Now it's about their freaking stock. I hope their PVDs are the source of failure this year.
We're praying for lots of snow and ice.
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P.S.
Looks like happy hunting season on supervisors working grievances starting next week thru the second week of January.
Let's fill up the dockets.
Looks like happy hunting season on supervisors working grievances starting next week thru the second week of January.
Let's fill up the dockets.
“I’m training seasonals”
brownIEman
Well-Known Member
If the company is implementing this under the seasonal worker language in order to do this contractually, then they are NOT SCABS. They will be bargaining unit employees (albeit temporary ones) covered under the seasonal employee language of the bargaining agreement. Just like seasonal drivers and helpers for decades have been. And like those seasonal employees, many locals in Non-RTW states will automatically charge them an initiation fee and dues. You are going to call someone paying initiation and dues to your union for a 2 month job a scab? That's harsh.
There is likely a 17 hour dispatch waiting for a lot of folks peak day. Hard to lighten that load if the volume comes in to give that much work to every route in the center. Peak has gotten harder and harder to game. The company will look at the trends to estimate peak volume but it is not as easy as it looks. (I know, the bosses are just stupid and if you were running things it would be supper easy for you with a calculator and legal pad to figure out exactly how many stops would come in each day and how many routes you would need to get everyone home in 8 hours. I have no doubt.)
is that what he said? Are you sure he did not say "Because we have become the highest cost provider because of our far higher overall labor costs than our competitors, and because when our customers leave us for our competitors they overwhelmingly tell us they left because of costs, we are implementing technology and automation to try and stem the hemorrhaging that has seen our market share drop from 80% in the '90's to less than 24% today. Because no matter how large the package market grows, if our share reaches 0, that is how many American families we will be able to pay a living wage to."
You could be right. You may be better at paraphrasing than I. But sometimes there are more factors that influence events than we like to recognize.
It was never just about people. It has always been about both. Any corporation that has truly followed the fantasy land ideal of we care only about our people and not a whit about our bottom line has gone belly up and at that point stopped being any assistance to their people whatsoever.
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I never said it was about people only. Now, it's about stock only. Get over yourself. You're lying to cover your anger that boils over when someone posts truth exposing the reality of the situation and no one who has worked here very long feels sorry for people like you who can't be honest and lashes out when exposed.
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brownIEman
Well-Known Member
OK. first your part in bold - displace employees that want to drive seasonally? I honestly don't know what that means. You can't mean drivers, because drivers will all be driving during peak and are not seasonal. Do you mean insiders? That makes no sense because you cannot have the insiders working as seasonal drivers because you need them to run the inside operations. Also you are completely missing the obvious point that if they are hired by the company under the terms of the bargaining agreement, they are by definition bargaining unit employees, so you are claiming that bargaining unit employees will be displacing bargaining unit employees. Or you're saying temporary bargaining unit employees are displacing inside employees who want to be peak drivers but can't (except in very limited circumstances and with limited hours), and never have been, because they are needed inside?
You do bring up a good point though - could an insider who fits the bill for this position as far as car, insurance, DOT etc. double shift part time as a PVD like they can as a jumper? As long as the hours fit and they did not violate the ICC hours rules I don't see why not?
Second part - Get over myself. Solid advice. Check. I am officially over myself. I am neither lying, looking for anyone to feel sorry for me (I left UPS 2 peaks ago and have a much better gig now) nor am I "lashing out". I am merely engaging in conversation and debate regarding this interesting new seasonal tool UPS is trying this year, and I disagree with your point of view about it. Tell me, do you often feel that people who challenge your point of view are "lashing out"? That is probably not healthy. (and I am perfectly willing to admit that my engaging in debate about UPS operations 2 years after leaving said UPS operations, is far from healthy on my part, but that is my particular cross to bear)
UnconTROLLed
perfection
The sub-contract aspect aside (which I think you are correct; PVD will be dues paying members)..
many high-seniority drivers will be missing more and more window time, have less helpers, be humping more heavy boxes, and stop density will increase. You are saying that seasonal drivers should have the cake work, more or less. I'm not agreeing or disagreeing, you made your points fairly, but that's basically what it is to full-time drivers and peak.
DriveInDriveOut
Inordinately Right
brownIEman
Well-Known Member
I don't disagree with you. And I get it sucks. I'm not trying to be a phallus when I say this: This is a business, and it needs to be run like one. UPS is always going to be looking to reduce windshield time, because windshield time is a cost with no revenue associated. While drivers get paid to drive and deliver, the customer only pays UPS to deliver. I have said for years, UPS has a simple business model that has allowed it to remain profitable if not competitive. It pays a total compensation package to its service providers that is way above anything the competition pays, and then it beats them like rented mules to get its money's worth. Not saying it's right, and I know it sucks (other than the paycheck) but that's how it is.
Hopefully it will not reduce helpers per say- Say instead of dropping a helper off with a handcart and a diad to walk off an apartment building, you met a PVD and gave them the apartment? or a small neighborhood (say the one with the gated communities and long driveways)? And if that PVD was a preloader who came out in his car and made PVD money for a few hours (as long as he could stay under ICC), that's a win-win isn't it? Anyway, that is what I would be looking to do if possible were I still in a center. And I'd give most of my drivers a jumper as well. Again, if possible.
From a center management perspective, I could also see this thing being a huge cluster. Peak drivers have always gotten the least challenging work, or cake work as you put it. Because with few exceptions, in my experience, that is all they can handle. So in my center, that usually meant giving Peak routes the business and pickups leaving the knowledgeable drivers to do the resi. I am not sure how some Joe Shmoe off the street is supposed to efficiently run off 20 resi stops out of a 4 door sedan. Even with an app telling him where to go.
