So who won the debate?

[Lead Belly]

And quite honestly I don't know beans about Fred Z. But I can certainly understand people wanting to try something
completely different.

Not with my great union. I would never roll the dice with a guy who flat out can't do the job.

 

[quamba 638]

I would just like to know, what people think would change.


Do they think (if FZ is elected)....

That UPS is going to have some sort of "come to Jesus" epiphany ??


For example;

Magically start treating members better.

Give part-timers a big raise.

Go back to the company health care program.

Keep every pkg car driver under 9.5.

Etc.

????


I really think people are that delusional.


If anything, things would be worse.

The company would "double down" on FZ, to test his mettle and intestinal fortitude.

Not to mention.... abuse the inexperience of that "slate".



-Bug-

What if you're just a supporter checks and balances or the 22nd amendment?

 

[quamba 638]

I would just like to know, what people think would change.


Do they think (if FZ is elected)....

That UPS is going to have some sort of "come to Jesus" epiphany ??


For example;

Magically start treating members better.

Give part-timers a big raise.

Go back to the company health care program.

Keep every pkg car driver under 9.5.

Etc.

????


I really think people are that delusional.


If anything, things would be worse.

The company would "double down" on FZ, to test his mettle and intestinal fortitude.

Not to mention.... abuse the inexperience of that "slate".



-Bug-

Also, Im pretty sure FZ has the "guts" to stand up to UPS. Wasn't he the reason our last contract was held back six months because he didn't back down until we just said the voters of Local 89 don't count and passed it anyway?
Truthfully I'm just here to get informed on the candidates, I don't know much about either of them. I've picked up on some stuff with our last contract debacle... But I can't help but think it's not good to have the same leader for 20 years. The average length of a Fortune 500 CEO is 4.6 years about the same a the President.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Isn't that exactly what happen when Junior took office?
At least Z is a long time President of one of the biggest Locals in the country.


~At one point, every incumbent was an "unknown" commodity and chosen to change the direction of an antiquated notion.~

Based on the five minutes of the debate that I watched, I wouldn't want Fred to preside over my book club, let alone run a Union w/1.3M members.

 

[UniteandWin]

Im my opinion the debate was bad for our union as a whole. It was on national tv, and Im sure the employers were laughing thier butts off in a "divide and conquer"evil way. As I have said in another forum H and Z have been all over the map as far as their alliances. It's time to unite this union. Try to find some common ground with these so called sworn enemies and work together. Your common ground is easy to find ( ups management)

Sent using BrownCafe App

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Im my opinion the debate was bad for our union as a whole. It was on national tv, and Im sure the employers were laughing thier butts off in a "divide and conquer"evil way. As I have said in another forum H and Z have been all over the map as far as their alliances. It's time to unite this union. Try to find some common ground with these so called sworn enemies and work together. Your common ground is easy to find ( ups management)

Sent using BrownCafe App

I'm sure the 10-15 people who actually sat and watched the whole thing would agree with you.

 

[Bubblehead]

Based on the five minutes of the debate that I watched, I wouldn't want Fred to preside over my book club, let alone run a Union w/1.3M members.

That's the story of your existence in this union.
Five minutes in a century's worth of history.
You should stick to what you know, picking on old ladies and going to the movies solo.

 

[Gimme Danger]

Not with my great union. I would never roll the dice with a guy who flat out can't do the job.

Well, you rolled the dice in 1998 with "a guy who flat out can't do the job." And we've paid the price for the last 17 years. Just look at all the people H ran for office with who've been banned from the union.

 

[Whatbrownwontdoforyou]

Im my opinion the debate was bad for our union as a whole. It was on national tv, and Im sure the employers were laughing thier butts off in a "divide and conquer"evil way. As I have said in another forum H and Z have been all over the map as far as their alliances. It's time to unite this union. Try to find some common ground with these so called sworn enemies and work together. Your common ground is easy to find ( ups management)

Sent using BrownCafe App

And that's exactly where my problem is......the ibt is fighting ups management and other company's management and tdu is fighting the union and there officials........so my question is when you say work together do you mean against companies or against the union......because I never see any tdu supporters enforcing the contract,fighting for other members rights or going to union meeting.......what I do see is tdu slandering every union official any chance they get,going against contracts before the contracts before they are even negotiated,and a lot of crying and complaining on the internet about nonsense

 

[BigUnionGuy]

Just look at all the people H ran for office with who've been banned from the union.

Ron Carey was banned for life.


Do you really want to do this.... ??



-Bug-

 

[Gimme Danger]

And that's exactly where my problem is......the ibt is fighting ups management and other company's management and tdu is fighting the union and there officials........so my question is when you say work together do you mean against companies or against the union......because I never see any tdu supporters enforcing the contract,fighting for other members rights or going to union meeting.......what I do see is tdu slandering every union official any chance they get,going against contracts before the contracts before they are even negotiated,and a lot of crying and complaining on the internet about nonsense

If the IBT really did fight management, then anything resembling TDU wouldn't have an audience.

 

[10 point]

Ron Carey was banned for life.


Do you really want to do this.... ??



-Bug-

Lucky for Jr he was banned.

 

[10 point]

That's the story of your existence in this union.
Five minutes in a century's worth of history.
You should stick to what you know, picking on old ladies and going to the movies solo.

You forget that he's Joe Union now?

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

That's the story of your existence in this union.
Five minutes in a century's worth of history.
You should stick to what you know, picking on old ladies and going to the movies solo.

I am a fairly good judge of character but either Fred was nervous or he was very unsure of himself.

 

[Whatbrownwontdoforyou]

If the IBT really did fight management, then anything resembling TDU wouldn't have an audience.

What does tdu do to help the ibt or any members.....try to give me something positive

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

What does tdu do to help the ibt or any members.....try to give me something positive

You mean other than giving the members a "second opinion" on the true state of our Union?

 

[Whatbrownwontdoforyou]

You mean other than giving the members a "second opinion" on the true state of our Union?

Let's take the ups contract in 2018.....in my opinion the specifics of the don't matter to tdu.......they are against the ups contract in 2018.......what they do is rebel rouse to boost donations......if the ibt likes the Cubs,tdu will like the white sox.....if the ibt likes the Cowboys,tdu will like the redskins......they don't have any opinions on how to change anything.....they just want controversy in the ibt so they can make money

 

[Gimme Danger]

What does tdu do to help the ibt or any members.....try to give me something positive

I used to be ashamed to say I was a member of my local. Now because of the leadership of 'the tdu guys' I'm proud to be a Teamster. There's plenty to get involved with, and every picket line I go to, the other unions around here appreciate the difference.

 

[BigUnionGuy]

Lucky for Jr he was banned.

Ron Carey, will be a "footnote" in the Teamster history.

Marred.... by his inability's.


1997 was fun.


FZ, thinks he can repeat it.

I am a fairly good judge of character but either Fred was nervous or he was very unsure of himself.

Yep.

What does tdu do to help the ibt or any members ?

For some reason....


They want to charge you money, for that information.

Why is that ?



-Bug-

 

[10 point]

Ron Carey, will be a "footnote" in the Teamster history.

Marred.... by his inability's.


1997 was fun.


FZ, thinks he can repeat it.






Yep.





For some reason....


They want to charge you money, for that information.

Why is that ?



-Bug-

His "inabilities" never trumped his strengths and his support was generated by his ability to stare down the company and identify with the members who paid his salary.
He was a unifier. Unlike today's situation and if the company hated him for his resolve we needed him.

Footnote? Only to some non-ups people and old guard supporters.