So who won the debate?

[Lead Belly]

Well, you rolled the dice in 1998 with "a guy who flat out can't do the job." And we've paid the price for the last 17 years. Just look at all the people H ran for office with who've been banned from the union.

Jimmy at the head of your union will always get you in more doors than some bad breath liar fool who has organized 108 people in the last five years.

 

[BigUnionGuy]

His "inabilities" never trumped his strengths and his support was generated by his ability to stare down the company and identify with the members who paid his salary.
He was a unifier. Unlike today's situation and if the company hated him for his resolve we needed him.

Footnote? Only to some non-ups people and old guard supporters.

Please correct me, if I am wrong.

But, you weren't even employed by UPS in 1997.


Let alone.... apart of the strike.



-Bug-

 

[10 point]

Please correct me, if I am wrong.

But, you weren't even employed by UPS in 1997.


Let alone.... apart of the strike.



-Bug-

Here's your correction ltr.

I was full time well before that. Had a daughter in college at the time of the strike and a wife with cancer.

We just finished self directed work groups and HABITS (OSHA imposed) training.

Yeah, I was there. Got my $55 strike pay. Total.

Sat in the groups when the DM et al passed out the multiple page "offerings" allegedly presented to Carey/ Hall. HMOs, performance based raises, etc.

Yes Mr -Bug-, I was there.
You're corrected but no foul called.

 

[10 point]

I also remembered that the media came out to the strike line and a big group of us were shown on TV close up.
My wife upbraided me for looking so happy in front of the cameras.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

I also remembered that the media came out to the strike line and a big group of us were shown on TV close up.
My wife upbraided me for looking so happy in front of the cameras.

The media coverage today would paint a far different picture.

"Overpaid Crybabies" would be the headline in the morning paper.

 

[realbrown1]

The position of IBT General President is not designed for on the job training.

What do we do if H does in office?

SOL?

And could you use your argument against H when he ran against Ron Carey?

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

RC would be a liability if he were in office today.

 

[10 point]

The media coverage today would paint a far different picture.

"Overpaid Crybabies" would be the headline in the morning paper.

Your blanket condemnation is incomplete.
Strike on what issue(s)?
The media and general public aren't involved in our struggles nor do they contribute directly to our pension plans, etc.
The strike in 97 would not have changed whether we had public support or no support.
UPSers must and will deal with our own issues even if we have to stand alone.
Yea, I know about the part time America slant to the strike but the strike was not just about giving pt timers full time jobs.

This conversation will no doubt be endless knowing your attitude ( by your own admission you painted and did construction instead of coming to the strike line every day to support your coworkers) so I'll end my rebuttal here.

If you're afraid of the waves don't get into the boat.

 

[10 point]

RC would be a liability if he were in office today.

You would be tho.

 

[10 point]

What do we do if H does in office?

SOL?

And could you use your argument against H when he ran against Ron Carey?

You're posting to someone with a scab mentality.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

You would be tho.

We need someone with the business acumen to put us on a level playing field with the company. The Joe Union tough guy approach would cost many of us our jobs.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

You're posting to someone with a scab mentality.

I prefer business sense to scab mentality.

 

[realbrown1]

You're posting to someone with a scab mentality.

True.

 

[10 point]

I prefer business sense to scab mentality.

It's all about you.

We need someone with the business acumen to put us on a level playing field with the company. The Joe Union tough guy approach would cost many of us our jobs.

If the US was cowardly in dealing with aggression against us (militarily) we'd be tested all the time.
That mentality applies to business as well and the company cannot be foolish enough to test the resolve of strong union leadership either.
The bigger the hammer the less force necessary to drive a nail.
The liability door swings both directions.
You figure it out.

 

[realbrown1]

I prefer business sense to scab mentality.

Is that the argument you would use when/if we ever go on strike again, to cross our picket line?

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

The Company has all the bullets.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Is that the argument you would use when/if we ever go on strike again, to cross our picket line?

Didn't cross in 1997.

Won't be here in 2018 but if I were I wouldn't cross.

I wouldn't waste my time standing around drinking beer.

 

[10 point]

Is that the argument you would use when/if we ever go on strike again, to cross our picket line?

We have been over this bridge with this scab so many times it's not worth the effort anymore.
I'm putting him on ignore and I won't have to be embarrassed that there's people like him out there enjoying the benefits and pay that the rest of us Joe Unions fight for.

 

[10 point]

Didn't cross in 1997.

Won't be here in 2018 but if I were I wouldn't cross.

I wouldn't waste my time standing around drinking beer.

You're an embarrassment.
Good riddance.

 

[Whatbrownwontdoforyou]

Is there anyone who thinks zuckerman won that debate or is there anyone who thinks he was prepared to debate