By The Book
Well-Known Member
Yeah,sounds a bit anal to me to
Telematics and discipline.
- Thread starter Browned up
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Mugarolla
Light 'em up!
It is hard to defend against, but it should not have to be defended against. According to Article 6 Section 6, the worst that can happen is a warning letter. An employee cannot be discharged unless he/she is defrauding the company.
If someone is terminated for this and goes to the panel, it should be a simple "point of order." Employee cannot be discharged for this according to Article 6 Section 6.
tourists24
Well-Known Member
should be? why? if you can show me panel decisions that shows that its ok to sheet up stops dishonestly then I will agree with you. But from the people I know that do sit on such panels, its not something you want to defend if the company wants to push it. And why should they? Sheet packages up according to methods.
Some people just want to make this job so much harder than it actually is
Mugarolla
Light 'em up!
I agree. I am just saying that the panel should not have to rule on the actual charge itself, on the sheeting of the packages. They just need to rule on the "point of order." Company violated Article 6 Section 6 of the contract by discharging employee. Point of order upheld. Employee back to work.
This also gives the panel an out. It would be hard to rule for the employee because of the dishonesty factor, but it would also be hard to rule against the employee because the language is so specific. Just rule on the point of order and it is done.
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
Yet another example of a dishonest union member hiding behind the contract.
Mugarolla
Light 'em up!
Sorry Upstate. You apparently don't care about other union members. I agreed that this practice should not happen. Take the hit for a late NDA instead of being dishonest. But if it does happen, as a Steward, one must pull out all stops, use every trick in the book, to protect the members job. Just like a defense attorney. While you know the client is guilty, you have to due your best to get him off.
Yes, it might be a technicality, but UPS pulls out all stops, uses everything it can gets its hands on, when it discharges an employee. They do not play fair, why should we?
The purpose of discipline is to change behavior. I can almost certainly guarantee you that if an employee does this, gets terminated, gets his job back, that he will never do it again. Behavior changed.
10 point
Well-Known Member
If the union could discharge management for dishonesty the company would have a perpetual "HELP WANTED!" ad posted.
What's good for the goose....
PT Car Washer
Well-Known Member
My building does have a permanent "HELP WANTED" sign out front. Hiring PT sups off the street.
10 point
Well-Known Member
How fitting.
ArcherUTR
Well-Known Member
He still delivered the package before 10:30. I'd tell them to politely suck it.
10 point
Well-Known Member
The supe evidently was bored and he had to puff up his ego for the weekend somehow.
"Drivers only steal from the company" evidently was the theme of the day.
He probably wishes that he was a driver.
ArcherUTR
Well-Known Member
I'm no contract reader, but your supposition seems to be based on your interpretation of the definition of the word 'defraud'. There may be well established panel definitions, but to a layman my company pays me to deliver NDA's before 10:30. After receiving instructions not to do this, it does seem fraudulent to try to hide a missed service failure by time stamping the package and driving to the delivery point. It defrauds the customer and the employer.
ArcherUTR
Well-Known Member
And as far as the above NDA scenario of having to drive around to different delivery points because of confusion and customer instruction, yes I would keep the delivery transaction open. It is an accounting of what I'm doing.
Archer, why were you at the ABC company for 12 minutes?
"Well because of XY and Z."
vs.
Archer, why were you doing absolutely nothing for 11 minutes before you delivered to company ABC, stealing time?
Archer, why were you at the ABC company for 12 minutes?
"Well because of XY and Z."
vs.
Archer, why were you doing absolutely nothing for 11 minutes before you delivered to company ABC, stealing time?
Mugarolla
Light 'em up!
Agreed. The legal definition of defraud.
Defraud
To make a Misrepresentation of an existing material fact, knowing it to be false or making it recklessly without regard to whether it is true or false, intending for someone to rely on the misrepresentation and under circumstances in which such person does rely on it to his or her damage. To practice Fraud; to cheat or trick. To deprive a person of property or any interest, estate, or right by fraud, deceit, or artifice.
Intent to defraud means an intention to deceive another person, and to induce such other person, in reliance upon such deception, to assume, create, transfer, alter, or terminate a right, obligation, or power with reference to property.
It is dishonesty, but is it defrauding the company? It is worth a shot to say that it is not. I would argue that the section means to defraud the company monetarily.
I am not saying I am right or that I could win it, but unlike Upstate, I would give it my best shot. Win or lose.
ArcherUTR
Well-Known Member
I got busted for the very same thing over 5 years ago (in my chronological estimation) on a DIAD IV board. Anyone who thinks this is new technology is ill informed.
Hell, supervisors used to instruct us to do stuff like this. However, with this recent rekindling of an old issure I have completely stopped.
If they are hungry then let them eat late Air.
10 point
Well-Known Member
It's been in use before that.
But the "stakes" are higher now...
For some reason.
That's why its best to deliver it late if it's late.
Honesty is a shield against worse punishment for deceptive work habits.
It's all about the integrity of the employee... not the employer.
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